daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 1st, 2009, 07:34 PM   #1561
Radish2
Registered User
 
Radish2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,354
Likes (Received): 60

yes, very expensive, not only that the Netherlands isn´t a good looking country, flat and with no real winters but everything is very expensive, but don´t be offended.

I am interested where in Germany there are the smoothest and most even motorways and natonalroads, also two laned because usually the two laned roads look best when new and somehow they are mostly the most even. I know in Bayern there are very good looking roads with A-profile crashbarriers and very even asphalt, I think the asphalt is a bit softer than in Baden-Württenberg, I can´t stand very hard asphalt like in Baden-Württenberg, I don´t know why but in Baden-Württenberg many roads are really shitty and the motorways are substandart. When I compare the Hungarian M5 with some Baden-Württenberg motorway the German motorways are almost a joke compared to the M5 motorway. I want to know where in Germany they build roads differently with softer better looking asphalt and which are even, because many even new German roads go up and down. And they also use pretty bad markings which don´t shine at all in Baden-Württenberg, in Bayern they use great markings but the asphalt is pretty hard unfortunately. But I think Germany will always use very hard asphalt which is not confortable to drive on, they want everything durable, but they don´t realize that asphalt like M5 motorway in Hungary or Bulgarian motorways and nationalroads can be very durable, when the final layer is very good, I hope more substates in Germany will start using softer type of asphalt like in Hungary or Bulgaria to have very confortable kickass looking roads.

Edit: German roundabouts, signs and concrete blocks at sides of road look very good.
Radish2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 1st, 2009, 10:45 PM   #1562
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Germany has some very smooth concrete motorways. I think that the motorways in the former DDR are the best motorways in Germany. Just because they're new.

Oh yeah, Radi, we're having a real winter now. No snow, but it's quite cold
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 01:00 AM   #1563
HAWC1506
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bellevue, WA + Munich, Bavaria
Posts: 1,280
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radish2 View Post
yes, very expensive, not only that the Netherlands isn´t a good looking country, flat and with no real winters but everything is very expensive, but don´t be offended.

I am interested where in Germany there are the smoothest and most even motorways and natonalroads, also two laned because usually the two laned roads look best when new and somehow they are mostly the most even. I know in Bayern there are very good looking roads with A-profile crashbarriers and very even asphalt, I think the asphalt is a bit softer than in Baden-Württenberg, I can´t stand very hard asphalt like in Baden-Württenberg, I don´t know why but in Baden-Württenberg many roads are really shitty and the motorways are substandart. When I compare the Hungarian M5 with some Baden-Württenberg motorway the German motorways are almost a joke compared to the M5 motorway. I want to know where in Germany they build roads differently with softer better looking asphalt and which are even, because many even new German roads go up and down. And they also use pretty bad markings which don´t shine at all in Baden-Württenberg, in Bayern they use great markings but the asphalt is pretty hard unfortunately. But I think Germany will always use very hard asphalt which is not confortable to drive on, they want everything durable, but they don´t realize that asphalt like M5 motorway in Hungary or Bulgarian motorways and nationalroads can be very durable, when the final layer is very good, I hope more substates in Germany will start using softer type of asphalt like in Hungary or Bulgaria to have very confortable kickass looking roads.

Edit: German roundabouts, signs and concrete blocks at sides of road look very good.
Well, one thing you want to keep in mind is that the way asphalt is made changes very frequently. There is a book that talks about the contents of asphalt and a new version of the book has to come out every one or two years. Newer ones tend to be softer with more rubber content. So like Timon said, I'd check the former DDR.

And as for the evenness of the roadways, a lot of times it has to do with drainage. Roadways are designed with a side slope for drainage purposes. I'll use / and \ to symbolise the way the roadway slopes down. When you have a 2x2, most likely the road will be / median \. But if you have a 2x4, then the road might be /\ median /\, which will make it look a bit more uneven. I hope that makes sense.

Last edited by HAWC1506; January 2nd, 2009 at 01:06 AM.
HAWC1506 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 10:50 AM   #1564
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

You hardly notice this slope, but it is there, yes. In a few years time we'll see how it works out on the Dutch A2, which is expended from 2x3 to 2x5
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 10:51 AM   #1565
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

Slope is usually up to 2%, somewhat more in very rainy areas.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 11:07 AM   #1566
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Considering that 3 lanes + shoulder are 15 metres wide (4 times 3,75), the height difference would be 30 cm. Is it really that much? I never really noticed it
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:20 PM   #1567
Majestic
Systematic Chaos
 
Majestic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: POZnan* (PL)
Posts: 805
Likes (Received): 26

A11 Kołbaskowo (PL-DE) - Dreieck Schwanebeck (Berliner Ring)




Here we go...


1. Just past border crossing (which has 50 km/h speed limit) - ahhh, brand new concrete




2. Approaching 1st exit at German side - Ausfahrt Penkun




3. 1930's style Ausfahrt
Goodbye smooth concrete, welcome bumps





4. World-famous-pavement section with no shoulder




5. Still very bumpy...(Some drivers throwing up through their windows)




6. Another newly-reapved section, not for long though...





7. Approaching exit Schmölln and a slope.





8. Another unpaved section near exit Schmölln.




9. 117 km to Berlin, 100 km/h speed limit due to bumps and lack of shoulder.




10. Approaching a bottleneck at under-construction section.




11. 1x2 section U/C (apparently not a real high-priority road, not a single worker at sight on workday), 80 km/h speed limit.





12. No-passing sign on this stretch





13. Just 500m more of this nightmare...




14. Back on 2x2 brand-new section at Kreuz Uckermark (A11/A20
)




15. Right to Rostock via A20.





16. Exit Gramzow.




17. Exit Pfingstberg. 120 km/h speed limit on A20-A10 stretch due to sub-standard, tigh shoulder.





18. Tree-trimming truck doing its job. Good emergency signage with flashing lights.




19. Ecoduct in the forest




20. Still 120 km/h even though the shoulder is proper here. Everyone doing 140-150




21. Buckowsee reast area (the only one on that section thus lots of cars fueling up).




22. Reconstruction of a bridge over Oder-Havel Kanal.




23. 2 lanes here including one suicidal near the concrete barrier New span visible in the backgound on the left.





24. Approaching exit Finowfurt. 80 km/h.




25. Exit Lanke, still 20 km to Berliner Ring.




26. Call this a shoulder





27. Berliner Ring heading west. 120 km/h all the way to Dreieck Werder (A10/A2)





Summary:

Distance: 111 km
Timeline: 57 min
Traffic: low
Exits: 12
Interchanges: 1 (Kreuz Uckermark)
Rest areas: 1
Polizei patrols spotted: 2
Road excitement: 2/5

Majestic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:32 PM   #1568
PLH
Moderator
 
PLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Warszawa / Łódź
Posts: 11,841
Likes (Received): 2823

Good work

Do you have pics from border crossing and A6/S3 Dreieck ?
__________________
Respect .
PLH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:50 PM   #1569
Majestic
Systematic Chaos
 
Majestic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: POZnan* (PL)
Posts: 805
Likes (Received): 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLH View Post
Good work

Do you have pics from border crossing and A6/S3 Dreieck ?
No, unfortunately not.
Majestic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 10:52 AM   #1570
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Nice report, it's Majestic

Are there ever any traffic jams on the A11? I'm surprised that traffic is so low, Szczecin is a fairly big city
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 11:35 AM   #1571
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

Intercountry traffic is usually not that much.

Even in the urbanized area of Aachen/Southern Limburg the amount of traffic that crosses the A76/A4 border crossing is only like 40,000.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 12:06 PM   #1572
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,465
Likes (Received): 3437

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic View Post

2. Approaching 1st exit at German side - Ausfahrt Penkun


if this is first exit from the border, why does it have alleady number 3? : great and interesting report though!
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 12:14 PM   #1573
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

In Germany, the first exit is at the border crossing, even if it's technically not possible to exit there. Where the second went; I don't know
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 02:32 PM   #1574
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,465
Likes (Received): 3437

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Where the second went; I don't know
that's what i'm wondering acutally
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 02:47 PM   #1575
Patrick
✪ DWF ✪ Alaaf! ✪
 
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Grafschaft Wied
Posts: 2,626
Likes (Received): 888

exit 2 "Nadernsee" is/was planned, but not realised yet. Don't know how old these plans are/were.
Patrick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 03:47 PM   #1576
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Intercountry traffic is usually not that much.

Even in the urbanized area of Aachen/Southern Limburg the amount of traffic that crosses the A76/A4 border crossing is only like 40,000.
In the Limburg area there are lots of places where you can cross the border, but here it is quite different. But Meckelenburg-Vorpommern is not very densely populated, so I guess you're right
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 04:08 PM   #1577
Radish2
Registered User
 
Radish2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,354
Likes (Received): 60

Lots of reconstructions and so on. I find it poor that Germany increased the truck maut even though there aren´t many km of quality road like in Slovenia and Hungary where from beginning to finish the road is extremly smooth and even and looks impressive, in Germany that is not possible and I hardly believe near future there will be a motorway which has the same pavement for more than 200 km.
Radish2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 04:17 PM   #1578
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19365

One truck does as much damage as 10.000 cars to the pavement. In Germany, certain motorways have over 20.000 trucks on them per day. The annual damage to the pavement is incredible, so it's more or less logical that they have to compensate for that.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 04:25 PM   #1579
Radish2
Registered User
 
Radish2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,354
Likes (Received): 60

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
One truck does as much damage as 10.000 cars to the pavement. In Germany, certain motorways have over 20.000 trucks on them per day. The annual damage to the pavement is incredible, so it's more or less logical that they have to compensate for that.
I´ve been told here on the forum that a car does as much damage as 40 cars to the pavement, now they are 10 000? That´s probably also why some roads with big truck traffic get relief from the trucks.
Radish2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2009, 04:27 PM   #1580
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

damage only happens when the pavement is not strong enough...

and it is not fair to blame trucks for damages on weak roads...

roads for heavy truck traffic have to be build with thick concrete pavement.

although it is more expensive as a thin pavement for small truck traffic, but not 10.000 times more...
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, baustelle, congestion, germany, highways, marode brücken, motorways, stau

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium