daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 11th, 2013, 11:14 AM   #2281
SturmBeobachter
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Siemenstadt
Posts: 138
Likes (Received): 172

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
It's not the worst motorway strech in Europe, although it is in rather bad shape after so many years in service.

They need to widen carriageways (and do some other stuff like fence it against animals) to accomodate to modern motorway standards and improve safety.

And yes, they will scrap all that old concrete, replace lower layers and build it practically from the scratch in the same place.
Well, it's not the worst stretch in the Europe but EU wise it is on the top. And if the reconstruction means getting rid of the old concrete it's a good news....I just hope they will do it also on parts of D2 between Bratislava and Brno, because it's also of similar "quality".
SturmBeobachter no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 11th, 2013, 12:05 PM   #2282
bad_boy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: different places
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 2360

I would add D11 Praha - Hradec Králové which also needs reconstruction. But I would not demonise the quality of these roads so much, especially on the left lane it is generally allright so if you drive fast the travel is more or less fine. I would say lack of fencing is much more demanding comfort and safety feature on these streches, in particular during spring and summer seasons.
bad_boy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 12:08 PM   #2283
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,572
Likes (Received): 19364

There were some renovations recently on westbound D11. Only the last 15 km or so were in poor condition. I haven't driven eastbound.

image hosted on flickr

tn_IMG_8513 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

tn_IMG_8518 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
__________________

my clinched highways / travel mapping • highway photography @ Flickr and Youtube

snowdog liked this post
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 12:14 PM   #2284
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,234
Likes (Received): 18298

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
I would add D11 Praha - Hradec Králové which also needs reconstruction. But I would not demonise the quality of these roads so much, especially on the left lane it is generally allright so if you drive fast the travel is more or less fine. I would say lack of fencing is much more demanding comfort and safety feature on these streches, in particular during spring and summer seasons.
So that means you should rather drive on the left lane on D1?
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 12:28 PM   #2285
mapman:cz
Ministerský rada
 
mapman:cz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EU - CZ
Posts: 1,105
Likes (Received): 202

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
So that means you should rather drive on the left lane on D1?
Basically yes But reconstruction works are already pending on three stretches out of 21 between Prague and Brno.

As for D11, section from km 18 to km 13 westbound has been repaved recently, other sections are planned for next months and years so that the old D11 Praha - Poděbrady will be completely resurfaced after that.
__________________
mapman
mapman:cz está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 12:38 PM   #2286
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,234
Likes (Received): 18298

I only drove a small stretch of the D1. But it was pretty much bad, I think the worst motorway I've driven until now. There are some similar bumpy concrete sections in Germany too, not so pleasant to drive.
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 01:07 PM   #2287
bad_boy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: different places
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 2360

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
So that means you should rather drive on the left lane on D1?
If you are not blocking fast traffic then definately yes I generally drive rather fast (but don't want to start OT regarding lane discipline and speed limits here).

My point was that it has been very unjust on this forum to criticize this strech for its bad quality so much. It is not good for sure, but definately not the worst in Europe and still allows fast and relatively comfortable drive. And they are reconstructing it now, at or just beyond final call of its its lifespan, which is very good news.

Actually the worst section on D1 is not between Praha and Brno but just east of Brno (Brno - Vyškov), nothern carriageway, which does not allow for comfortable drive on any lane. But I saw some works on short streches between Brno - Vyškov last year so they will gradually repave this section as well (I assume).
bad_boy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #2288
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2154

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
Actually the worst section on D1 is not between Praha and Brno but just east of Brno (Brno - Vyškov), nothern carriageway, which does not allow for comfortable drive on any lane. But I saw some works on short streches between Brno - Vyškov last year so they will gradually repave this section as well (I assume).
They have been repaving Brno - Vyškov last and this year and they plan to go on with it until its ok, several 5 or so km stretches every year.

Credit to balance
D1 repair AB km 193,8-199,3

before in April


After, now
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 02:34 PM   #2289
bad_boy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: different places
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 2360

So it looks like ŘSD is implementing some complex reconstruction plan for all old generation motorways and in a few years the network will be completely refreshed.

Are there any plans to fence R10? The pavement there is in good condition and it is a very pleasant and picturesque drive but lack of fence on R10 (and on R35 up north to Liberec) makes this route a bit scary at a spring/summer night. Lots of wildlife living there and lots of animal-related accidents there.
bad_boy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #2290
mapman:cz
Ministerský rada
 
mapman:cz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EU - CZ
Posts: 1,105
Likes (Received): 202

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
So it looks like ŘSD is implementing some complex reconstruction plan for all old generation motorways and in a few years the network will be completely refreshed.
Yes, there is some complex plan for reconstruction of old surfaces on all motorways (D) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
Are there any plans to fence R10? The pavement there is in good condition and it is a very pleasant and picturesque drive but lack of fence on R10 (and on R35 up north to Liberec) makes this route a bit scary at a spring/summer night. Lots of wildlife living there and lots of animal-related accidents there.
... and yes. As you can see on the traffic map, workers are currently fencing the R10 expressway between kms 32 and 34.
__________________
mapman

bad_boy liked this post
mapman:cz está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 04:41 PM   #2291
bad_boy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: different places
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 2360

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
... and yes. As you can see on the traffic map, workers are currently fencing the R10 expressway between kms 32 and 34.
That's very good news. I was reading that since the soviet army left CEE, population of deers and wild boars has recreated and the animals are florishing again in the woods of eastern Germany, Poland and Czech Republic.

Personally I have bad experience hitting a herd of deers (killing three and crashing brand new A5) there around 2:30 AM during one warm and foggy summer nite going to (then) my girlfiend in Prague. Instead of a party we were visiting service at Praha-Prosek...

Then every time I happen to go on Praha-Wrocław route via Zittau I started to notice that after every spring or summer night there were lots of dead animals lying on the side of the road. There must have been lots of socio-economic costs related to so many animal hits there (insurance costs, injuries, damage to environment, lost time and car for the time of repair, etc.).

Anyways, ŘSD is doing very good job
bad_boy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #2292
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmBeobachter View Post
Well, it's not the worst stretch in the Europe but EU wise it is on the top. And if the reconstruction means getting rid of the old concrete it's a good news....I just hope they will do it also on parts of D2 between Bratislava and Brno, because it's also of similar "quality".
I have driven both the D1 and D2 (Prague to Bratislava) within the last 12 months. In my opinion, both are bad but the D1 is significantly worse than the D2. I think the authorities are right to deal with the D1 first.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 05:06 PM   #2293
SturmBeobachter
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Siemenstadt
Posts: 138
Likes (Received): 172

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
My point was that it has been very unjust on this forum to criticize this strech for its bad quality so much. It is not good for sure, but definately not the worst in Europe and still allows fast and relatively comfortable drive. And they are reconstructing it now, at or just beyond final call of its its lifespan, which is very good news.
I'm sorry if my observations seemed to harsh for you, but when you have to drive about 300+ Kilometers through a Country which had been almost 2 and a half decades out of Communism but still has the same quality roads as then I have to say that something is going wrong there. Not to mention that Vignette is more expensive than in Austria which is just ridiculous. And can someone tell me is there any sings that in the near future a normal 2x2 lanes of highway would lead to the German Border instead of that extremely dangerous anger filled narrow stretch of 1x1 which runs for kilometers trough villages?
SturmBeobachter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 07:18 PM   #2294
Mateusz
Registered User
 
Mateusz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 6,536
Likes (Received): 235

So when Tunel Blanka will be opened? 2014?
Mateusz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 07:46 PM   #2295
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2154

Interesting photos from the D8 landslide in the pdf.

http://www.k-report.net/discus/messa...suv-245923.pdf
__________________

Hank Hodinky liked this post
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #2296
bad_boy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: different places
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 2360

Quote:
Originally Posted by SturmBeobachter View Post
I'm sorry if my observations seemed to harsh for you, but when you have to drive about 300+ Kilometers through a Country which had been almost 2 and a half decades out of Communism but still has the same quality roads as then I have to say that something is going wrong there. Not to mention that Vignette is more expensive than in Austria which is just ridiculous. And can someone tell me is there any sings that in the near future a normal 2x2 lanes of highway would lead to the German Border instead of that extremely dangerous anger filled narrow stretch of 1x1 which runs for kilometers trough villages?
There is a lot of wrong judgment in your post. How can you say that nothing happened in terms of D/S class roads in CZ during the last two decades? I do not know about which DE/CZ connection you are talking about but I will give you a few examples I know from my own experience (not being a Czech guy):

D8
Assuming you are from Neukoelln and traveling via Praha eastwards you should have surely noticed D8 which is almost complete. The short missing strech would have been completed long time ago if not environmental issues (which were not present at the time Germany or Austria were building their basic motorway networks, but CEE countries that are currently building their networks must deal with).

D5
Connects Plzen/Praha with Nuremberg and the rest of western Europe. Passing CZ/DE border in Rozvadov you can actually see that the motorway in CZ is built in much better standard than the twisty German A6 by the border. Though I must admit that A6 between A93 and Nuremberg is a real piece of engineering you can safely drive with 250-300 km/h on the well-profiled curves. But after Nuremberg until A5 by the French border it often lacks hard shoulder, is full of limitations, often overcrowded (insufficient capacity) and generally makes much worse drive than D5 Rozvadov - Praha in CZ.

R4
R4 will not connect DE and CZ, so if you are referring to this road then get it for granted that both Czech and German governments do not have intention to make continous connection Praha - München via R4/A93. R4 will terminate in Pisek and A93 in Deggendorf and it will stay like that. I am not sure about reasons, just read something about NIMBY from Deggendorf blocking completion of A93 towards CZ border.

Both R6 and R7 come close to the CZ/DE border but have no continuation in Germany. So current incomplete state of these routes does not matter in terms of CZ/DE connection. There are roads connecting regions (e.g. Karlovy Vary) with Praha and the rest of the country.

Summing up, I would not say that in terms of DE-CZ connections Czechs are doing bad. Actually it looks like it is 50/50 or even more developed on the Czech side!

Apart from DE-CZ connections, ŘSD build major D1/R35 connection to the Polish A1. True you cannot make it to Poland continuously on D1 only, but you have continuous connection via R46/35. Short R46 is an old generation expressway, but R35 would be signed as A in Germany.

I don't mention other improvements to the D/R network made in the last 10 years.

From my subjective view currently the biggest challenges for ŘSD should be:

1) conversion of old-generation motorways (D1, D2, D11) to modern standard motorways. And what I learnt is that it is in progress now;

2) connection Praha - Wien, either via D3 or R52. These are going slow on both Czech and Austrian side and no country seems to put enough effort to complete either connection (R52/A5 connection looks like it will be completed sooner);

3) connection Praha - Wrocław. This seems to materialise sooner than the connection to Wien with Polish S3 reaching PL/CZ border in Lubawka in 2017 (if they really announce the tender in August 2013 as unofficially confirmed). I am not sure about details of preparation on the Czech side (permits, tender documentation) but the Polish GDDKiA seems to make impression that they act in concert with ŘSD in making this connection ready around the same time (like they made A1/D1 connection last year).

4) completing R35 as the second east-west connection in the country. With R43 and R11 completed it would also make another north-south corridor in this part of Europe. But I totally lack any information what is the status of this. Probably the priority is behind the three points above.

5) closing R1, at least from D1 to road no 12 (and D11).


On a side note I find it really ironic seeing a German (I assume) guy complaining that a CEE country 20 years following fall of communism has still incomplete motorways/expressways network

Really. And I am not referring to WWII damage done to CEE countries or lack of reparations for that (the amount equal to the damage done to Warsaw only estimated at 55 billion EUR would be enough to complete both Polish and Czechoslovakian motorway networks in full even at today's price). I am also not refering to Marshall plan aid which ironically went to reconstructions of Germany instead of CEE after WWII. But seeing a guy complaining that a CEE country does not have completed motorway network because of communism while at the same time this guy is from a country that invited communists twice to CEE (first time in 1939 by executing Ribbentrop-Molotov pact and the second time by having its invincible army being chased by the communist army to Berlin via CEE lands they did not leave thereafter) is just too much.

Please have some decency and historic perspective. It is CEE that took the effort and cost of making the communism fall twice (first time in August of 1920 at the gates of Warsaw and second time in 1989/1990). Czechoslovakia was one of the most developed country in Europe before WWII. If not WWII and the communism they would surely have their motorway network completed long time ago. No EU funds needed. The next time you drive on D1 instead of complaining take note that you are in a country that managed to built a motorway through a difficult landscape during communism without the Marshall plan or reparations.
__________________

Last edited by bad_boy; June 12th, 2013 at 12:30 AM.
bad_boy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2013, 01:16 PM   #2297
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
2) connection Praha - Wien, either via D3 or R52. These are going slow on both Czech and Austrian side and no country seems to put enough effort to complete either connection (R52/A5 connection looks like it will be completed sooner);
You should have in mind the international traffic is always smaller compared to domestic traffic, Prague-Wien traffic is rather minor so I don't think motorway on the border section is much needed, 1st class road would do a nice job.
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 12th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #2298
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateusz View Post
So when Tunel Blanka will be opened? 2014?
Oficially 5/2014, however the city had basicly run out of money so the final term is IMO uncertain. I've heard still some 12 bln Kč (cca 450 mio euro) have to be paid and at the same time, city is buying overpriced Škoda trams and building new section of A metro line (needless and overpriced) on credit from EIB, other investments are being postponed.
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 13th, 2013, 09:38 AM   #2299
SturmBeobachter
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Siemenstadt
Posts: 138
Likes (Received): 172

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=3 View Post
You should have in mind the international traffic is always smaller compared to domestic traffic, Prague-Wien traffic is rather minor so I don't think motorway on the border section is much needed, 1st class road would do a nice job.
I can agree on this, the road which connects M1 with Slovakian border in Hungary is only one half wide, but considering the traffic volume there, it serves it's purpose perfectly.
SturmBeobachter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 13th, 2013, 12:22 PM   #2300
stickedy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kronach
Posts: 762
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_boy View Post
Both R6 and R7 come close to the CZ/DE border but have no continuation in Germany. So current incomplete state of these routes does not matter in terms of CZ/DE connection. There are roads connecting regions (e.g. Karlovy Vary) with Praha and the rest of the country.
B303 will be widened to 2x2 in near future to connect the czech border with A93. So R6 should be extended as well.
stickedy no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, czech republic, highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium