daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 22nd, 2013, 08:01 PM   #2381
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=3 View Post
There will be 1200 more parking spaces (Letná and Prašný most) in the wider city centre after Blanka is completed. None of parking spaces in the centre will be abolished because of that. So the total number of parking spaces in the centre will increase. Hundreds more are being built in Florentinum and Quadrio. Again, it's just increasing the parking capacity in the city centre. That means more people will use car when commuting to work => more pollution and traffic jams in the streets. Blanka will only make commuting by car more easier.
Well, but if the traffic comes from outside the city, it will use Blanka to get to those parking places, and it won't bother anyone on the surface.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 22nd, 2013, 09:18 PM   #2382
bewu1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PL - Warszawa (Wilanów)
Posts: 4,822
Likes (Received): 2082

When eastern and northern Praha motorway (expressway) by-pass will be build ?
bewu1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2013, 10:11 PM   #2383
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
And improved mobility options is bad, because?
Because cars harm the environment, pollution from car traffic in Prague is above limits given by law.
And of course, cars demand most space in the city and inhibit other means of transportation, especially motorless.
__________________

lafreak84, Nexis liked this post
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2013, 10:14 PM   #2384
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Well, but if the traffic comes from outside the city, it will use Blanka to get to those parking places, and it won't bother anyone on the surface.
Really? And how those cars will get to the tunnel? You know, there's a city around it, thay have to get there somehow... It only means more people will use cars, the only limit are parking spaces and they are increasing all the time.
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2013, 11:12 PM   #2385
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

It's not that black and white. Motorized traffic into central Prague has remained essentially flat in the past 20 years, at just under 300,000 vehicles per day. On the other hand, motorized traffic in the whole city increased by 370% during that time, and that kind of traffic is exactly what MO will serve, intraurban traffic, but not only to and from the city center. It will give a good alternative for the current north-south route through the center.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2013, 11:27 PM   #2386
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=3 View Post
Really? And how those cars will get to the tunnel? You know, there's a city around it, thay have to get there somehow... It only means more people will use cars, the only limit are parking spaces and they are increasing all the time.
If the traffic comes from outside of Prague, and directs to the parking places around Blanka, it doesn't have to go through the city center or level intersections if it comes from S, E, N (D1, D8, D11, R10). Only the eastern direction doesn't have a urban expressway to Blanka so yes you could expect more cars on Plzeňská, Bělohorská/Patočkova, Evropská (from D5, R6). But I do consider those the main arteries anyway, and if the cars are not allowed on the main arteries, then where would you allow them? I guess just nowhere?

I really think that Smíchov, Malá Strana, Nové Město, Holešovice, Hradčany and Letná, will profit from Blanka.

Last edited by Surel; September 22nd, 2013 at 11:56 PM.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2013, 11:42 PM   #2387
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=3 View Post
Yes, and I would love to see that in Prague. But especially on the smaller streets. I don't expect many to use a bicycle for 8+ km routes to get from the outskirts to the center. It could get better with the advent of the electric bicycles.

Anyway, alongside the arteries the cycle paths and the car lanes should be completely isolated from each other. This doesn't happen, which is pity. When you look at Hradčanská, Patočkova and Milady Horákové, there was definitely huge opportunity wasted, because on those places the artery was replaced by Blanka, but not much was done on the surface. I don't consider this the optimal solution:

Patočkova:


Patočkova



But I understand the problem and I know that this is described as being a sci-fi not so long ago in Prague. I repeat. I don't think it is optimal solution. The bicycle path should be separated not only by a line on the asphalt on such a busy road. But that's my Dutch experience speaking . There is plenty of space, no excuses on that.
__________________

lafreak84 liked this post

Last edited by Surel; September 22nd, 2013 at 11:54 PM.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 01:37 AM   #2388
Nowax
Nowa Huta
 
Nowax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Krakow Poland
Posts: 852
Likes (Received): 1601

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=3 View Post
Because cars harm the environment, pollution from car traffic in Prague is above limits given by law.
And of course, cars demand most space in the city and inhibit other means of transportation, especially motorless.
Krakow - comparison 153 cars and 153 public transport passangers

__________________
Nowa Huta Wzg

1+1=3, crimio, Janek0 liked this post
Nowax no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 01:55 AM   #2389
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowax View Post
Krakow - comparison 153 cars and 153 public transport passangers

[IMG]http://d.naszemiasto.pl/k/r/bc/eb/523c6565c61e1_o.jpg[IMG]
A bit unfair considering buses are hardly ever full ( or well, judging from my area, buses are only full-ish during rush hour, anywhere else on the day you're lucky to see more than 10 people in the bus), and in theory most cars can take 5 people.

A fair comparison would be either all vehicles at max capacity, so 31 cars vs a full bus.

Or an average amount of bus passengers vs average amount of people in the car.

Secondly, car brings you door to door, a bus does not, it shuttles you between central locations, a passenger of a bus may be commuting more than double the time he would in the car ( especially if he is required to change line in a trip).


Finally, would you rather stand in a cramped expensive bus between all the peasants, or sit in your climate controlled heated seat, with loud music on, with all the comforts, eating your breakfast, perhaps even smoking a cigarette, while going to work ?

How would you do your monthly shopping by bus ? You wouldn't, as you can't carry that much physically, or the bus is to cramped. You'd have to go to the shop more often, while in the car, you just load up your groceries, and see ya next month !

Bus is great if you have a bus stop near and you're lucky to have work near where the bus goes. Comfort, practicality, and speed wise, it's far inferior.
I don't understand why most bus passengers don't use a motorcycle, moped/scooter or cycle ? Superior speed and practicality wise, only the weather is a real negative factor.
__________________

čarli liked this post

Last edited by snowdog; September 23rd, 2013 at 02:04 AM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 02:17 AM   #2390
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's not that black and white. Motorized traffic into central Prague has remained essentially flat in the past 20 years, at just under 300,000 vehicles per day.
The situation in the early 90's was rather catastrophe. I remeber children couldn't go out from school to excercise because of smog. Since then lot has improved mainly because cars are more efficient. However it hasn't improved enough and in last years it's getting worse again. Limits for dust particles for example are commonly exceeded.

Quote:
On the other hand, motorized traffic in the whole city increased by 370% during that time, and that kind of traffic is exactly what MO will serve, intraurban traffic, but not only to and from the city center. It will give a good alternative for the current north-south route through the center.
Only in theory. Since current north-south motorway in the city centre will not be abolished, it will remain as the most attractive option how to travel to and within the city. This particular motorway is responsible for most air pollution in the city centre, especially at Prague 2, which is most densely populated quarter in Prague. It runs right in the middle of it.
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 02:26 AM   #2391
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
If the traffic comes from outside of Prague, and directs to the parking places around Blanka, it doesn't have to go through the city center or level intersections if it comes from S, E, N (D1, D8, D11, R10). Only the eastern direction doesn't have a urban expressway to Blanka so yes you could expect more cars on Plzeňská, Bělohorská/Patočkova, Evropská (from D5, R6). But I do consider those the main arteries anyway, and if the cars are not allowed on the main arteries, then where would you allow them? I guess just nowhere?
But these new cars on these main routes will only add up to existing numbers. If you are increasing parking capacity in the city centre, you will have more people travelling by cars to the city centre, it's as simple as that. The increase will be on all radial roads in the city, very probably.

It would be nice to abolish 1200 parking spaces in the city centre when the city is building new under ground on its edge. It works in cities like Zürich, where they have limit for parking spaces in the centre at 1990 level. If new parking spaces are built, same number have to be avoided on the streets.

Quote:
I really think that Smíchov, Malá Strana, Nové Město, Holešovice, Hradčany and Letná, will profit from Blanka.
Only if there's a reduction of parking spaces, otherwise the situation will be same or the decrease of traffic will be insignificant, not justifying such amount of public money spent on this tunnel.
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 11:44 AM   #2392
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=3 View Post
Only if there's a reduction of parking spaces, otherwise the situation will be same or the decrease of traffic will be insignificant, not justifying such amount of public money spent on this tunnel.
Do you think that there won't be less through traffic through those quarters?

That Blanka is not accompanied by better surface traffic policies in other parts of the city center is not the fault of Blanka, right? We will also see, what will happen, when it will be in use, whether it will be possible to do things like closing Smetanovo nábřeží for cars, or at least reduce its traffic load significantly.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 12:11 PM   #2393
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,239
Likes (Received): 18303

153 cars can fit five times as many people.
So 30 cars with one bus would have been a fairer comparison.

Anyway, I am for public transportation, if it's good, like I saw in Vienna for example. But Prague was also good, may trams, subway, and also many people using it.

But for example where I live, in Ingolstadt, public transport is bad, going to work by bus (after changing, cause there is no direct route), requires 1 hour. Going by car, depeding on traffic, from 10 to 40 mins. By bicycle around 35-45 mins. So I never use the bus, it's sucks. For my gf going to the city clinic it's also slower then by car or bike.
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 01:12 PM   #2394
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Do you think that there won't be less through traffic through those quarters?
No, because most of this traffic has end/source inside the city ring. Prague is very monocentric, most people live in suburbs on the periphery and work in the centre.
See this map: blue - work, red - living


The only option how to reduce traffic in the city centre is to reduce number of parking spaces and built capacity P+R on the edge of city near metro stations. Or the toll.

Quote:
That Blanka is not accompanied by better surface traffic policies in other parts of the city center is not the fault of Blanka, right? We will also see, what will happen, when it will be in use, whether it will be possible to do things like closing Smetanovo nábřeží for cars, or at least reduce its traffic load significantly.
It is sad the city spends 1,5 billion € on the project that will actually make situation worse (or will change almost nothing).
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 01:14 PM   #2395
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
153 cars can fit five times as many people.
So 30 cars with one bus would have been a fairer comparison.
The average car load in Prague is about 1,2 people. For 153 people that would be about 128 cars.
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 01:55 PM   #2396
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Is the Blanka Tunnel entirely financed by the city of Prague? In most countries, large infrastructure works are co-funded by the national government due to its national significance.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 02:49 PM   #2397
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Is the Blanka Tunnel entirely financed by the city of Prague? In most countries, large infrastructure works are co-funded by the national government due to its national significance.
Just by Prague. The outer ring is paid by the state and the EU.

On the other side, Prague could receive some funds on the PT (prolonging metro A line) from the EU.

Last edited by Surel; September 23rd, 2013 at 03:04 PM.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 10:37 PM   #2398
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Construction of the first class road I-11 relocation and enlargement (2x2, 10 kms) between Ostrava and Opava progresses. RSD pdf
The section features three major bridges across valleys.

http://www.opava-city.cz/scripts/detail.php?id=63771




__________________

Luki_SL, MichiH liked this post
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 23rd, 2013, 10:41 PM   #2399
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

RSD recommenced works on the construction of 4 km long R6 section Lubenec-Bošov. The works were halted in 2010. RSD flyer with map

The RSD argues it renegotiated the contract and saved some 6 mln Euro (some 10 % of the contract value).

The road should be opened in 2 years.
__________________

MichiH liked this post
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 12:36 PM   #2400
javimix19
Registered User
 
javimix19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Donostia-San Sebastián
Posts: 749
Likes (Received): 1328

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Just by Prague. The outer ring is paid by the state and the EU.
I think that it is a big infraestructure to have paid only by Prague Municipality. Here in Spain Madrid Municipality paid entirely M30 tunnel and now the Municipality is in bankrupt. (And the banks that lend the money too, for example Bankia) But spanish politicians are very corrupt, the most corrupt in Europe.
javimix19 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, czech republic, highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium