daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 24th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #2401
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

The Prague tunnel complex Blanka should get open next year.

Part of the whole complex is a bridge over Vltava in Trója. The bridge should be opened for trams only already this year. The costs were estimated at 400 MLN CZK, but climbed up to 1.2 BLN CZK (47 MLN Euro).


__________________

bleetz liked this post

Last edited by Surel; September 24th, 2013 at 01:40 PM.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 24th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #2402
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
I've read about that. Are they also planning to begin construction on adjacent sections? This particular stretch is kind of in the middle of nowhere.

You'd think they would extend the existing R6, or start constructing on several short stretches simultaneously. This particular stretch is halfway existing R6 and Karlovy Vary.

I drove the I/6 a while ago, it wasn't very busy (traffic counts of 8,000 AADT confirm that) but it appears to carry long-distance traffic, with a lot of drivers anxious to drive it as fast as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Part of the whole complex is a bridge over Vltava in Trója. The bridge should be opened for trams only already this year. The costs were estimated at 400 MLN CZK, but climbed up to 1.2 BLN CZK (47 MLN Euro).
400 million CZK is unrealistically low for such a project, 1.2 billion doesn't seem extraordinary for a large bridge like this one. It has a 196 meter main spain. To compare, the new 2x2 arch bridge in Nijmegen, Netherlands (main span of 285 m) costs € 260 million.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #2403
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
I think that it is a big infraestructure to have paid only by Prague Municipality. Here in Spain Madrid Municipality paid entirely M30 tunnel and now the Municipality is in bankrupt. (And the banks that lend the money too, for example Bankia) But spanish politicians are very corrupt, the most corrupt in Europe.
This is similar here.
Prague was made to be NUTS 2 region so the GDP is above 100% EU average and the surrounding region below 100% to get subsidies from cohesion funds (if these two regions were together, they would be slightly above 100% a would not qualify for EU subsidies.) So Prague have to pay everything on its own, even metro. Municipalities in Czech Rep get more money from the central government than in other countries probably so it somehow works, however current situation is IMO critical.
We won't even get subsidy for water savage treatment plant, because former corrupted mayor sign "dirty" contract with Veolia. And now we have to pay expensive water fees because of that.

Last edited by 1+1=3; September 24th, 2013 at 04:01 PM.
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #2404
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
400 million CZK is unrealistically low for such a project, 1.2 billion doesn't seem extraordinary for a large bridge like this one. It has a 196 meter main spain. To compare, the new 2x2 arch bridge in Nijmegen, Netherlands (main span of 285 m) costs € 260 million.
The original project was for cheaper bridge:


After signing the contract with Metrostav it was changed by the city (there was contest for the new design), the price was raised (understandably) but the fuss about it now is it was illegal to do it this way.
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 06:37 PM   #2405
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've read about that. Are they also planning to begin construction on adjacent sections? This particular stretch is kind of in the middle of nowhere.

You'd think they would extend the existing R6, or start constructing on several short stretches simultaneously. This particular stretch is halfway existing R6 and Karlovy Vary.

I drove the I/6 a while ago, it wasn't very busy (traffic counts of 8,000 AADT confirm that) but it appears to carry long-distance traffic, with a lot of drivers anxious to drive it as fast as possible.
If I look at the flyers of all the planned constructions the construction should start as of 2015 or 2016 on many of the future R6 parts. But those flyers are not to be trusted!! On the other side I think that R6 is comparably well prepared and on some places was the RSD already busy with buying the land.

My guess is that they just needed to resume the construction because the contract was already in place. There are still two such places, the R49 (halted because of finance) and D11 (land ownership problems).

I believe that Mapman should know it . I guess that he might be also behind this page: http://www.dopravnistrategie.cz/. The Ministry of transportation is busy with the transportation strategy. It´s also presented on that page. Further the infrastructure budgets from the State fund of Transportation Infrastructure is presented here: http://www.sfdi.cz/rozpocet-sfdi-a-c...rozpocet-sfdi/. For the next years there is from R6 the Lubenec - Bošov, but there is also Řevničov obchvat (bypass).

The problem is that politics has strong influence on whats happening. With the new elections coming its crystal ball guessing what will happen. The changes on the ministry in the last 4 years (I mean personal changes) also meant that the strategies and priorities changed quite abruptly.

It would be nice for a change if the adopted strategy could last for some time and give a clear picture of the future. So far its this: http://www.dopravnistrategie.cz/imag...lnice_DSS2.pdf and there is no R6. So I would guess unless politicians will push something, it won't be a priority.

If you ask me how is it possible that the SFDI (State fund of the Transportation Infrastructure) budget mentions another construction and the Strategy document doesn't, I don't know. I would expect that those two documents should be consistent... I guess those three institutions, Ministry of Transportation, SFDI and RSD have a tough time talking with each other and producing consistent plan. I dunno how the communication works there. It seems bit complicated to me having those three institutions. I imagine in the ideal situation it would go like this atm. First the Ministry should present the strategy. The RSD should calculate the costs and comment on the timing (spacial permits etc feasibility) and SFDI should comment on the possible financing. The final strategy would be produced, decided on the projects to start and budget should be produced.

Bonus, most probable schedule of construction based on its evaluation (that Strategy):

Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 24th, 2013, 07:20 PM   #2406
mapman:cz
Ministerský rada
 
mapman:cz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EU - CZ
Posts: 1,105
Likes (Received): 202

R6 construction is hugely supported by politicians and people from Karlovy Vary Region and since there is almost noone that lives in that area and there is almost non-existing opposition against it as far as NIMBYs are concerned, R6 is proceeding well in planing. A technical-economical study has been made recently stating that the first section with bypases of Řevničov and Krušovice (to II/229) will be built as full profile, the following sections to Lubenec in 2+1 half-profile and Lubenec bypass and Lubenec - Bošov section in full profile (until 2022). The rest to Karlovy Vary will have to wait, since it already bypasses all the municipalities and there's a hig-quality road almost all the time. With that scheme the economic efectivity has been proven in black numbers.

And yes, the construction is resumed mostly because of already signed contract from the era of minister Řebíček. The TES has been made to advocate the costs of this stretch in context with the whole route.
__________________
mapman

MichiH liked this post
mapman:cz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 06:44 PM   #2407
snowdog
Speed freak
 
snowdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Capelle ad ijssel
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 92

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=3 View Post

The only option how to reduce traffic in the city centre is to reduce number of parking spaces and built capacity P+R on the edge of city near metro stations. Or the toll.
Or how about, make viable and efficient alternatives, rather than taxing people out of their cars hurting mobility and costing people time and money?

Removing parking spots will hurt the city and the national government financially( fuel duty), people living in suburbs or rural area's will think twice about coming to the center for shopping or others, if they'd have trouble parking or have to deal with the hassle of P+R. They'll just go to shopping centers in the suburbs instead.

Quote:
The average car load in Prague is about 1,2 people. For 153 people that would be about 128 cars.
And what is the average bus load ?

And how much time does the average commuter lose if he picks transport by buses&other public transport combo's instead of A to B by car ?

Last edited by snowdog; September 25th, 2013 at 06:50 PM.
snowdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2013, 02:53 PM   #2408
1+1=3
Registered User
 
1+1=3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Awqakuq
Posts: 1,485
Likes (Received): 507

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Or how about, make viable and efficient alternatives, rather than taxing people out of their cars hurting mobility and costing people time and money?
We have public transport. I have nothing against cars, only they take too much space and harm the environment in the city.

Quote:
Removing parking spots will hurt the city and the national government financially( fuel duty)
Socialism doesn't work, less to state, more to people.

Quote:
people living in suburbs or rural area's will think twice about coming to the center for shopping or others, if they'd have trouble parking or have to deal with the hassle of P+R. They'll just go to shopping centers in the suburbs instead.
That would be great it they wouldn't go to the city centre by car, that's the goal.

Quote:
And how much time does the average commuter lose if he picks transport by buses&other public transport combo's instead of A to B by car ?
Car in the city centre is the slowest mean of transportation. Bike is winning all the way, public transport second.
How much time pedestrians lose waiting on the lights?
1+1=3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #2409
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

tolls

I was looking into the toll revenue of the 4 countries with similar systems, i.e. vignettes and distance-based truck toll. It seems that the Czech Republic has problems getting substantial revenue from truck tolls.

I compared 4 countries.

(figures in millions)


CZ seems to be an outlier here. CH is an outlier as well due to its very high toll rates for trucks (over € 0.70 per km).

Toll rates for a typical full-size truck, euro 4 emission class;

* SK: € 0.19/km
* AT: € 0.24/km
* CZ: € 0.25/km
* CH: € 0.74/km

As you can see, CZ has the second-highest truck toll rate, but the lowest share of truck toll revenue of all 4 countries, at just 53.5%. The Austrian share is a bit distorted due to the Sondermautstrecken, which I placed among the car tolls. These short stretches bring in substantially more toll revenue per km than the vignette network.

However, this is not the whole story. CZ has by far the highest system cost of all 4 electronic toll systems, at 77% of revenue between 2007 and 2010. This effectively reduces the net truck toll revenue to marginal. The net income is only € 53 million, enough to construct about 4 kilometers of motorway each year.

In short, CZ has real problems tolling the trucks. I think it's quite plausible the current system results in less money (after system cost) than the old system.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2013, 10:40 PM   #2410
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
In short, CZ has real problems tolling the trucks. I think it's quite plausible the current system results in less money (after system cost) than the old system.
Yes, its quite possible, especially when you realize that electronic vignettes were also an alternative. The price for >3,5 t. would have to increase at least two to threefold though.
It's also interesting that the system was built by Kapsch in both countries, in Austria and CZ. However, in Austria Kapsch gets to much smaller slice.
It's not so surprising though, since the beginning it was a public knowledge that the whole project and tendering was corrupted. The satellite technology was excluded by the ministry from the start and technical specifications were tailored for Kapsch.


Kapsch has also nice lock-in. I don't know how precisely is the technology licensed, when another operator or contractor would be chosen in 2016 when the contract with Kapsch ends and if the government has the upper hand here, I doubt it. This is quite important as there is clear intention to put the toll also on other roads and the system will have to expand...
Kapsch also doesn't want to disclose what kind of re-investments it does on the depreciated investments. I.e. what will be the state of the system in the 2016. It can hardly be expected that the system will be same as a brand new.

That costs of the system (operating and investment) as of end of 2011 reached 15,6 mld and the total revenues 31,3 mld CZK. Thus 50 %. Kapsch argues that this figure should come to 20 % by 2016.
The average yearly revenue till 2012 was 5,7 mld CZK and average operating costs were 1,5 mld CZK, that is 25 %. The current toll revenue numbers are are around 8 mld CZK.

Strategy of Kapsch is to talk only about operation costs and compare them to the revenue. It doesn't talk about the investments. It also doesn't talk about the depreciation.

Last edited by Surel; October 9th, 2013 at 04:27 PM.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 06:53 PM   #2411
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

The minister of transportation (election coming in a month) removed from office the Head of RSD Čermák. The reasoning is not really clear. I for once thought that the current director of RSD is the best one that institution had in a long time.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 11:57 PM   #2412
Pascal20a
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 816
Likes (Received): 19

What means that for the Czech Motorways?
Pascal20a no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 6th, 2013, 11:12 PM   #2413
m_rocco
Registered User
 
m_rocco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Udine
Posts: 94
Likes (Received): 11

hi guys! someone knows situation on r48? is under construction?
m_rocco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2013, 02:43 PM   #2414
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_rocco View Post
hi guys! someone knows situation on r48? is under construction?
The Frýdek Místek bypass is the next on schedule. At the moment there are only minor works going on.
__________________

m_rocco liked this post
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #2415
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155

RSD won an arbitrage with Eurovia, Skanska and Porr concerning the wrongfully priced invoices on D1 in Ostrava. Most of the issue is time-barred though and RSD will not receive full compensation that would mount to several mln Euros.
There are series of arbitrages going on between RSD and Eurovia et al yet to be decided.
http://ekonomika.idnes.cz/stat-vyhra...eko-doprava_js


I guess if someone billed something wrongfully its plain fraud and someone should face court for criminal charges. Lets see if it will get there... But given it was a arbitrage and no one has the guts to purse the thing elsewhere I think it will stop here.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #2416
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
RSD won an arbitrage with Eurovia, Skanska and Porr concerning the wrongfully priced invoices on D1 in Ostrava. Most of the issue is time-barred though and RSD will not receive full compensation that would mount to several mln Euros.
There are series of arbitrages going on between RSD and Eurovia et al yet to be decided.
http://ekonomika.idnes.cz/stat-vyhra...eko-doprava_js


I guess if someone billed something wrongfully its plain fraud and someone should face court for criminal charges. Lets see if it will get there... But given it was a arbitrage and no one has the guts to purse the thing elsewhere I think it will stop here.
It's a pity the statute of limitations has limited the damages awarded. Anyway, I hope it will help to dissuade future abuses.

By the way, in English, that would be arbitration, not arbitrage. ("Arbitration" in English has the same meaning as "arbitrage" has in French, Russian, and several other European languages. The word "arbitrage" exists in English, but it has a completely different meaning.)
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2013, 07:58 PM   #2417
Surel
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,702
Likes (Received): 2155


Thx. You are right. I thought it has double meaning, will try to remember it.
Surel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2013, 11:24 PM   #2418
m_rocco
Registered User
 
m_rocco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Udine
Posts: 94
Likes (Received): 11

yesterday i drove through D1 -> R46 -> R35.
What's the speed limit in R class roads? I red somewhere that speed limit is 130 but along the road signals were only showing 100 kph all the time
m_rocco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 10th, 2013, 10:07 AM   #2419
bad_boy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: different places
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 2360

D and R class roads have the same speed limit - 130 km/h.

It used to be like that on R46 few years ago too, but since this road is a bit substandard expressway without hard shoulder (compare to R35), they introduced 100 km/h by signs on all R46. Without these signhs it would be still 130 km/h.
bad_boy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2013, 04:18 PM   #2420
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

What is crossing R1 here? It's just east of the R4 interchange.

ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, czech republic, highways, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium