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Old July 16th, 2014, 05:25 PM   #2641
mdhookey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
These overhead signs around Brno are very old (one of the first in the 1990's when the colour scheme changed) and will be replaced this summer. The ones in direction Prague have already been changed. Our regulation on road signs introduced red motorways numbers only around 2001, back then only E numbers were used on motorways. Many eastern bloc countries did that ...
It would be nice if the Czech government put a "R" symbol next to expressway-level roads in their signage. I find the current system of only numbers without any correlation if it's a standard two lane highway or an expressway really annoying. The Polish have it right by putting a "S" by their numbered roads to distinguish their class from lower level roadways.
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Old July 16th, 2014, 06:07 PM   #2642
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It would be nice if the Czech government put a "R" symbol next to expressway-level roads in their signage. I find the current system of only numbers without any correlation if it's a standard two lane highway or an expressway really annoying. The Polish have it right by putting a "S" by their numbered roads to distinguish their class from lower level roadways.
Really? Depending how you look on it, road numbers are totally uninteresting (in countries where road signage is destination-oriented, like Germany for instance) or very essential (in countries with road number oriented orientation, like the USA or Sweden) When you go from A to B, ist is very helpful when the road number follows long distance routes that in practice really exist. I find the new E-road system totally awful. How many times does the road number change between Warsaw and Vienna? Too many times. E7 was better. National road numbering is not much better. What´s the point of displaying an R or not on some tiny stretch of road on any route?
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Old July 16th, 2014, 07:47 PM   #2643
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R roads will be abolished since 2016 to solve this problem. You will find only red numbers for motorways or blue numbers for highways. Some highways will be signed as expressways (motorroad sign) but the number will stay the same.

I agree that the E road scheme is impractical at it's current state. But if PL CZ and A make agreement, there could easily be one number for the Warsaw - Vienna route. For instance, there is already one for Warsaw - Prague (E67) or Warsaw - Budapest (E77) routes...
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Old July 16th, 2014, 08:05 PM   #2644
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So finally no changing expressways to motorways?
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Old July 16th, 2014, 08:11 PM   #2645
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Really? Depending how you look on it, road numbers are totally uninteresting (in countries where road signage is destination-oriented, like Germany for instance) or very essential (in countries with road number oriented orientation, like the USA or Sweden) When you go from A to B, ist is very helpful when the road number follows long distance routes that in practice really exist. I find the new E-road system totally awful. How many times does the road number change between Warsaw and Vienna? Too many times. E7 was better. National road numbering is not much better. What´s the point of displaying an R or not on some tiny stretch of road on any route?
Personally, I really dislike the E-road numbering system at its current state for several reasons. For one, it is not universally signposted in every European country. The UK is one example, where nationally-designated roads reign supreme (although Britain being an island could partially explain this, yet Ireland does show the E-numbers). Another example is Germany, with arguably Europe's most complex motorway system. Having lived in Regensburg for three years, I can't remember a single moment when anyone said to me in either English or German to take E-56 to Deggendorf. It was always A9 in everyone's mind, both culturally and physically. Like Britain, Germany also does not regularly signpost its autobahnen or bundesstrassen with E-numbers, and this coming from a country at the forefront of European integration.

Now that I live and work in Prague, I have to say that what really annoys me about the Czech signpost system is the lack of knowing what class of road you're traveling on. Red-signposted motorways are fairly easy to identify as large, fast roads as the signposts are physically different with a red coloring scheme, differentiating them from the more common blue-colored signs. What does annoy me, on the other hand, is not knowing if a road is a R-level expressway or a standard two-lane, first class highway. Not every driver has a handy map or a GPS system with them in their cars, and it's generally good to know what class of road you're travelling on just by seeing the number, if it's going to be a bigger (and faster) highway or a smaller (and slower) road.

Just some examples:

This is an expressway (R1).

This is a standard first class, two-laned road (I/2).

This is an expressway (R10).

It's hard to know which one is which. This is why I appreciate the Austrian, Slovak and Polish systems, because you know exactly what class of road you're driving on (motorways, expressways, national roads) simply by looking at the number, often with a letter attached to it.

However, this is simply personal knit-picking at a very high level from myself, so I'm not expecting outrage from skyscrapercity forum members.

Last edited by mdhookey; July 16th, 2014 at 08:18 PM.
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Old July 16th, 2014, 09:48 PM   #2646
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Originally Posted by mdhookey View Post
Personally, I really dislike the E-road numbering system at its current state for several reasons. For one, it is not universally signposted in every European country. The UK is one example, where nationally-designated roads reign supreme (although Britain being an island could partially explain this, yet Ireland does show the E-numbers). Another example is Germany, with arguably Europe's most complex motorway system. Having lived in Regensburg for three years, I can't remember a single moment when anyone said to me in either English or German to take E-56 to Deggendorf. It was always A9 in everyone's mind, both culturally and physically. Like Britain, Germany also does not regularly signpost its autobahnen or bundesstrassen with E-numbers, and this coming from a country at the forefront of European integration.

Now that I live and work in Prague, I have to say that what really annoys me about the Czech signpost system is the lack of knowing what class of road you're traveling on. Red-signposted motorways are fairly easy to identify as large, fast roads as the signposts are physically different with a red coloring scheme, differentiating them from the more common blue-colored signs. What does annoy me, on the other hand, is not knowing if a road is a R-level expressway or a standard two-lane, first class highway. Not every driver has a handy map or a GPS system with them in their cars, and it's generally good to know what class of road you're travelling on just by seeing the number, if it's going to be a bigger (and faster) highway or a smaller (and slower) road.

Just some examples:

This is an expressway (R1).

This is a standard first class, two-laned road (I/2).

This is an expressway (R10).

It's hard to know which one is which. This is why I appreciate the Austrian, Slovak and Polish systems, because you know exactly what class of road you're driving on (motorways, expressways, national roads) simply by looking at the number, often with a letter attached to it.

However, this is simply personal knit-picking at a very high level from myself, so I'm not expecting outrage from skyscrapercity forum members.
This is an excellent example of how important continuous road numbers are. Would you ever choose another option than road 10 from Prague to north Bohemia? Would you ever try to drive from southeast to northwest Prague trying a different route then road 1? Would you ever drive Prague-Kutna Hora using a different route than road 2? The road standard itself is not important, the layout of the numbering is.
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Old July 16th, 2014, 10:07 PM   #2647
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Would you ever drive Prague-Kutna Hora using a different route than road 2?s.
Yup, I would. D11 to I/38 to I/2.

I still disagree. Road standard AND uniform standards are equally important.
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Old July 16th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #2648
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So finally no changing expressways to motorways?
As I said before, most of R roads will be administratively converted to motorways, the plan is still ongoing...
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Old July 17th, 2014, 10:37 PM   #2649
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The D11 to Hradec Kralove will be in construction in five days. It means the section from Praskacka to HK - Kukleny.
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/dom...acne-za-tyden/
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 03:50 PM   #2650
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Construction of D11 at Hradec Králové began today. It is a 2.5 km segment that will open to traffic in August 2017. It runs from Osičky to Hradek Králové.

http://www.rsd.cz/doc/Informacni-ser...bu-dalnice-d11

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Old July 22nd, 2014, 03:55 PM   #2651
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In August 2014? I think you meant August 2017.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 09:37 PM   #2652
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The next to last D1 section b/n Přerov and Lipník nad Bečvou has recently been tendered.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 09:43 PM   #2653
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Can it be that this section will be in construction in August?
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 10:12 PM   #2654
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To be or not to be, that is the question!
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:02 AM   #2655
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del, double post
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:03 AM   #2656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdhookey View Post
Now that I live and work in Prague, I have to say that what really annoys me about the Czech signpost system is the lack of knowing what class of road you're traveling on. Red-signposted motorways are fairly easy to identify as large, fast roads as the signposts are physically different with a red coloring scheme, differentiating them from the more common blue-colored signs. What does annoy me, on the other hand, is not knowing if a road is a R-level expressway or a standard two-lane, first class highway. Not every driver has a handy map or a GPS system with them in their cars, and it's generally good to know what class of road you're travelling on just by seeing the number, if it's going to be a bigger (and faster) highway or a smaller (and slower) road.
But the signage on R roads is on green background just like on D roads. Also signs showing a direction to a R road are on green background, aren't they? So you can easily tell the difference.

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It's hard to know which one is which. This is why I appreciate the Austrian, Slovak and Polish systems, because you know exactly what class of road you're driving on (motorways, expressways, national roads) simply by looking at the number, often with a letter attached to it.
Polish system is crappy because signage on S roads is on green background, just as on any other local road. Only A roads have blue background on the signage.
This is why I like the Czech system better.
And I hope that someday S roads in PL will be administratively changed to A, the same as it is going to happen in CZ.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:25 AM   #2657
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And I hope that someday S roads in PL will be administratively changed to A, the same as it is going to happen in CZ.
The problem is that main roads aren't up to the standard of A roads, particularly in urban areas. You can see the huge difference between the standard of the S11 Poznan bypass and A8 Wroclaw bypass/A1 Katowice bypass - the difference is huge.

The crucial difference right now is that all A roads that meet the standards will be tolled, whereas S roads won't. The other difference seems to be that S-roads take over the former DK roads in many places, whereas A-class roads are built from scratch.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:38 AM   #2658
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We're drifting away from te topic

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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
The problem is that main roads aren't up to the standard of A roads, particularly in urban areas. You can see the huge difference between the standard of the S11 Poznan bypass and A8 Wroclaw bypass/A1 Katowice bypass - the difference is huge.
S11 Poznań bypass - the difference is not huge. Maybe you meant the section Poznań - Kórnik with bus stops.

Quote:
The crucial difference right now is that all A roads that meet the standards will be tolled, whereas S roads won't.
Since Poland will be shifting to electronic payment system, there will be no obstruction to introduce tolls on S roads. Even a change in law is not required to do it.

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The other difference seems to be that S-roads take over the former DK roads in many places, whereas A-class roads are built from scratch.
Majority of S roads are also built from scratch.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 11:19 AM   #2659
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S11 Poznań bypass - the difference is not huge. Maybe you meant the section Poznań - Kórnik with bus stops.
You can notice the difference with the junctions mostly, but

Quote:
Since Poland will be shifting to electronic payment system, there will be no obstruction to introduce tolls on S roads. Even a change in law is not required to do it.
Doing it would be politically difficult though - a lot of these S roads have been built to try and improve economic conditions, like the S3 running through Lubuskie.

Going back to the Czech Republic, why was there a distinction between R and D in the first place?
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 11:32 AM   #2660
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The problem is that main roads aren't up to the standard of A roads, particularly in urban areas.
As long as it is a four-lane divided, controlled access highway with shoulders and a speed of 90 km/h or more, I don't see why it can't get motorway status. Most S-roads totally look like motorways, the A-status is too rigid, especially criteria such as the minimum distance between exits.

That said, Czech R-roads vary in design standards, but this difference is mostly due to age. Newer R-roads could be motorways, considering they allow 130 km/h anyway.

In most countries, expressways are usually just spurs in rural and urban areas, while several central European countries developed whole systems of expressways that are slightly below the highest motorway standards, but function like motorways anyway.
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