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Old December 19th, 2008, 06:33 PM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRazor View Post
These limits are heavily enforced as each highway tunnel in Czech republic has ANPR cameras to measure the average speed of passing vehicles.
Is this for real or are that just rumours?
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Old December 20th, 2008, 12:04 AM   #542
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Is this for real or are that just rumours?
It's based on reality, but those measeruments are used mostly for statistics and only sometimes to penalize drivers for speeding, but you'll never know when it happens...
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Old December 20th, 2008, 12:16 AM   #543
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Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
It's based on reality, but those measeruments are used mostly for statistics and only sometimes to penalize drivers for speeding, but you'll never know when it happens...
Have you ever heard about anyone who had been fined based on those records?
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Old December 20th, 2008, 12:22 AM   #544
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I hope it is only proposal.
For polish cities like Jastrzebie (where I'm from), Wodzislaw or even Zory and Rybnik, Ostrava is going to be the closest big city (well, kind of). I predict big traffic. Nearest Ikea for example is in Ostrava, there is good nightlife, it might be also alternative airport for Katowice (for people from towns mentioned above) etc. More people might also in future work across the border. If motorway is tolled people will try to avoid it which will pack local roads with traffic.
I think EU i funding this road exactly to help bridge regions from both side of the border. Polish part gets funding from "unity fund" if I'm not wrong.
First fact, D47 was not co-financed by EU (R48 was and is)...

Secondly, Polish A1 would be subject to fee as well.

What these regions need is a bunch of good local connections between those cities. For example, between Karviná and Jastrzebie. The road form Wodzislav to Bohumín is already well upgraded at the border...

Or, people that are using D1 frequently should buy a one year sticker (which is now cca 40 €) and don't need to worry in whole Ostrava Region. Just try to count how many trips any Ostrava guy needs to travel on A1 between Gliwice and border just to make it 40 €. It's not so much I think if I count 2-3 € for one trip on this relatively short section.

I understand your opinion, but it has so many consequences... People are already very angry that the R56 is going to be tollable next year, but they will get used to it in some time. I think it's only a matter of preferences....
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Old December 20th, 2008, 12:27 AM   #545
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Originally Posted by X236K View Post
Have you ever heard about anyone who had been fined based on those records?
Hm, well in Prague tunnels yes, some of my friends were fined for that, but in Valík, for example, I don't have any experience... But unofficial info from RSD says it's really happening...
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Old December 20th, 2008, 12:30 AM   #546
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By the way, when talking about speeding... any news regarding the 160 kmph speed limit proposal?
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Old December 20th, 2008, 12:38 AM   #547
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By the way, when talking about speeding... any news regarding the 160 kmph speed limit proposal?
It is still being considered as one of those proposed changes in Road Traffic Act, but there will be some conditions, whereas the main of them is signing 160 limit with dynamic matrix signs, not permanently on any stretch at all...
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Old December 20th, 2008, 12:47 AM   #548
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Yeah, dynamig signing should be a basic condition, I would not be happy to see people driving 160 - 170 kmph in today's weather!

What about the discussion about transfering some Rs to Ds?
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Old December 20th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #549
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I don't know wether it's worth to bring this limit to 160 km/h... I would stick with 130 km/h...
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Old December 20th, 2008, 02:20 PM   #550
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Yeah, they'll drive 160 km/h anyway
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Old December 20th, 2008, 02:25 PM   #551
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Then they will have excuses to drive 200 km/h
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Old December 20th, 2008, 02:55 PM   #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
First fact, D47 was not co-financed by EU (R48 was and is)...
I didn't know that. Why? Didn't you apply for grant from EU?

Quote:
Secondly, Polish A1 would be subject to fee as well.
Well A4 between Wroclaw and Gliwice should be tolled too. It is in service over 8 years now and they still can't choose operator for the tolls.
So, I wouldn't be so worry about toll on the A1
I think that we will have EU wide satellite toll system sooner than tolls on the A1

Quote:
What these regions need is a bunch of good local connections between those cities. For example, between Karviná and Jastrzebie. The road form Wodzislav to Bohumín is already well upgraded at the border...
But also good network of local expressways and motorways. I think there is good example on French-Belgian border around Lille. Motorways there are free, even if French system is usually tolled.


Quote:
Or, people that are using D1 frequently should buy a one year sticker (which is now cca 40 €) and don't need to worry in whole Ostrava Region. Just try to count how many trips any Ostrava guy needs to travel on A1 between Gliwice and border just to make it 40 €. It's not so much I think if I count 2-3 € for one trip on this relatively short section.
Well who knows what toll will be there? But true is, that for anyone working across the border or just doing a lot of trips (shopping etc) annual pass is good solution.

Quote:
I understand your opinion, but it has so many consequences... People are already very angry that the R56 is going to be tollable next year, but they will get used to it in some time. I think it's only a matter of preferences....
Well, I think it is mistake. In most countries interurban travel is toll free. Just to encourage people to use expressways rather than clog residential streets. In Czech republic annual sticker is quite cheap and I guess almost everyone have it, but nonetheless I think in principle local expressways should be toll free.
For the same reason A1 should be toll free at least on southern half because it will be major connection for Jastrzebie-Zory-Wodzislaw-Rybnik region. Especially because pay as you drive systems are much more expensive than stickers in longer terms.
Toll free A1-D47 connection would encourage more cross border trips, businesses and so on, in general more regional cooperation.

Last edited by geogregor; December 20th, 2008 at 03:01 PM.
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Old December 20th, 2008, 04:18 PM   #553
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Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
Yeah, they'll drive 160 km/h anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mateusz View Post
Then they will have excuses to drive 200 km/h
Hm, you have a point somehow, but with the condition of dynamic signage there is an opportunity to enhance these stretches with section speed control.
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Old December 20th, 2008, 04:30 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I didn't know that. Why? Didn't you apply for grant from EU?
EU thinks that D47 is a parallel project to R48 and they want to fund only one of them. So R48 is cofinanced very well, D47 was not.

Quote:
I think that we will have EU wide satellite toll system sooner than tolls on the A1
You still think it will become a reality ?? )) I think that satellite toll system is good, but esp. for trucks. As an owner of one year sticker I really appreciate buying it once and then not to carry about how much I travel on motorways. In case of sattelite system a combination of an annual year-pass for regular users and distance-based collecting system for occasional travelers would be a good solution for personal cars...



Quote:
Well, I think it is mistake. In most countries interurban travel is toll free. Just to encourage people to use expressways rather than clog residential streets. In Czech republic annual sticker is quite cheap and I guess almost everyone have it, but nonetheless I think in principle local expressways should be toll free.
For the same reason A1 should be toll free at least on southern half because it will be major connection for Jastrzebie-Zory-Wodzislaw-Rybnik region. Especially because pay as you drive systems are much more expensive than stickers in longer terms.
Toll free A1-D47 connection would encourage more cross border trips, businesses and so on, in general more regional cooperation.
Hm, I am a fan of toll on all motorways, just to make people aware, that they are using some high quality network, for which they pay. Urban sections for free, OK, but there can be hardly any definition what is still urban and what is not. In Austria also urban sections of motorways in Wien are tolled, I think that it's good, because it somehow could encourage people not to use their car that much in favor of public transport instead...
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Last edited by mapman:cz; December 20th, 2008 at 04:37 PM.
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Old December 20th, 2008, 08:31 PM   #555
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R48 is "E"uropean E462, D1 on that stretch is not (yet) any "E". They would surely both get money if it was.
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Old December 20th, 2008, 10:29 PM   #556
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Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
You still think it will become a reality ?? ))
I didn't say that

Quote:
Hm, I am a fan of toll on all motorways, just to make people aware, that they are using some high quality network, for which they pay.
But don't you pay road tax in the price of fuel? To make people aware this tax should be stated on receipts when you pay for fuel

Quote:
Urban sections for free, OK, but there can be hardly any definition what is still urban and what is not. In Austria also urban sections of motorways in Wien are tolled, I think that it's good, because it somehow could encourage people not to use their car that much in favor of public transport instead...
I'm not sure if it works. Urban motorways often connect outskirts of cities, industrial estates, big shops etc. People who drive there don't just commute to city center. For them PT is not always alternative. But they might try to avoid toll by driving on surface streets especially if most of them are locals and know the area. If A1 and D47 are tolled locals (including local companies) from Jastrzebie or Wodzislaw will use old roads to avoid tolls. It is danger and big traffic will also anger people living there. So far they have high hopes that traffic will move to motorways and they'll be able to live normally some day.
I don't want to be the one who tells them they are wrong

By the way, do you live anywhere close to Ostrava?
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Old December 20th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #557
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But don't you pay road tax in the price of fuel? To make people aware this tax should be stated on receipts when you pay for fuel
I pay consumer tax in the price of fuel, road tax here is payed only for company's (or other enterprise owners') vehicles.
With this kind of taxation there is a problem, that you can't tax foreign users of motorways that way and also, you can't avoid it, you pay for every consumpted liter of gasoline even if you don't use state roads.

On the other side, motorways are quite a different road system which requires better maintanance, limited access and different kind of driving behaviour. Do you get my point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
By the way, do you live anywhere close to Ostrava?
I don't. I live in one of many Prague's suburbs and on my crappy car I have a sticker. So I know what it means to need a sticker just for only 4 kms (and I should say I don't use it daily). I need it to get to closest P+R location which may I use to travel to the city centre and it is about 6 kms from my home I do not travel very much on other tolled motorways but let's say once a month in average I travel on other tolled sections too. And I don't bother, I am OK with my one year sticker for that price.

When talking about Prague, the Outer Ring (R1, Prazsky okruh) is still sticker-free and it's fine, but I think that also the Outer Ring could be tolled in future, because there will be also a complete City Ring (Mestsky okruh) and enhanced city-radial-road system for the inner city traffic. And another fact about Prague is that there are only a few cars without a sticker so IMO it would be OK. The case of D1 in Ostrava is something comparable.

But I know there are still people that don't have sticker and you need to encourage them to use motorway in cities too. Therefore Prague and Brno bypasses are sticker-free and Ostrava part of D1 (Rudna - Vrbice) will be too. Other sections are outside the city so I think that's the reason why they plan a toll there. Even if it is in one metropolitan area...
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Old December 20th, 2008, 11:11 PM   #558
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What about the discussion about transfering some Rs to Ds?
It is a long-term run But there are some tendencies that enable that. All new R stretches will have SOS system, own maintenance and other motorway-standard facilities. I think it is only a matter of time to at least change the expressway sign to motorway sign, but a change in law is needed for that. And we need a good proposal for that to pass through our legislatives Then we can transfer almost all R to D with some exemptions like R46, R63 or R35 near Liberec (which is narrow and curvy and fits for 110 kph better).

BTW Do you also think we should distinguish motorways and expressways more then now? (Now its almost the same for drivers, in future it should be used for both 2-lane and 4-lane roads in connection 110 kph limit and limited access when it fits for that stretch, even if it is for example 4 kms long).
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Old December 21st, 2008, 03:41 AM   #559
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How much you have to pay annual sticker, for ordinary car to drive on Czech motorways?

Ireland just changed most of theirs expressways to motorways. So, it can be done. In Ireland they probably used expressway status to lessen local objections during road planning but design was virtually the same like motorway.
They used to call it: High Quality Dual Carriageway.
Are Czech R's and D's the same? I mean road geometry, designed speed etc.
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Old December 21st, 2008, 12:11 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
How much you have to pay annual sticker, for ordinary car to drive on Czech motorways?
Now it is 1000 CZK per year, that is around 40 €.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Ireland just changed most of theirs expressways to motorways. So, it can be done. In Ireland they probably used expressway status to lessen local objections during road planning but design was virtually the same like motorway.
They used to call it: High Quality Dual Carriageway.
Are Czech R's and D's the same? I mean road geometry, designed speed etc.
The new design of expressways is pretty much motorway-like, but the old one was not. Some stretches are built narrower and with sharper curves. But some of them are bulit quite enough to make them motorways. R52 and R56 are totally motorway like regarding design width and speed. R10 and R4 are suitable for motorway as well but there are some missing facilities to make it motorway (SOS, maintanance, existing bus stops etc.).
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