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Old April 28th, 2009, 01:59 PM   #621
mapman:cz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
So is ř comparable to the Polish "rz"? (as in: Rzeszów)
Yeah, comparable, but a bit harder (more vibrant)
In word Kroměříž there are three syllables that sound like kroh-mnye-rsheesh - for non-czech speaking people very funny and tough word, indeed
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Old April 28th, 2009, 05:21 PM   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
On the top of the portals there will be a local road But that's not the real reason.

First: There is a sort of sand-based subsoil on the foot of the hill and there was a need to reinforce the bottom layer of the tunel first and then build these cut&cover parts.

And second: If there is not enough solid rock material to dig into, those cut&cover tubes are preffered. Geology of Prague area is one of the most complicated in Europe, causing many problems when making any tunnel in the city. So it's better to open the hill on the slope and dig into real solid rock.
OK, thats clear.
but why dont they leave that short cuts open?
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Old April 28th, 2009, 07:21 PM   #623
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They would need expensive side walls (temporary ones are not enough), especially if there is local road over it. And such cut-and-covers don't cost as much as someone would think. That's why it is pretty common thing around the world (just you don't notice it, when tunnel is finished)
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Old April 28th, 2009, 08:13 PM   #624
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what kind of "expensive walls"? that is a shallow cut, a simple slope with grass is enough...

...and for local road a simple overpass...

here is a close example:

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Ker je samo še dobr teden do odprtja odseka Šentvid-Koseze, sem dans mal poslikal ta predel. Aja, pa to je moj prvi post, upam, da bo vse tko kt je treba .





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Old April 28th, 2009, 09:16 PM   #625
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The slope is too steep for some kind of typical open cut (neighbouring immovables, forest) and besides the street on the top of the portals there was also a local forest road, that is to be reconnected, and the whole place will be restored also with trees etc..

I think there is always a good compromise between the lenght of open cut and cut&cover section of tunnel.

Hope this photo explains it better:

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Old April 28th, 2009, 10:24 PM   #626
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Yes indeed
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Old April 29th, 2009, 09:59 AM   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
here is a close example:
Actually that "close example" has been prolonged with cut&cover (where grass is). This prolongation is only a bit shorter than above czech exampl minus local road. Slovenian longest tunnel was even built with cover&cut technology (for about 50 meters). That is not seen today, just only 4 years after opening.

Also, some gentle slopes can become too gentle (like only 15 degrees slope) and therefore too large.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 10:44 AM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
I think there is always a good compromise between the lenght of open cut and cut&cover section of tunnel.
yeah, but in this particular case they are beyond that compromise...

and what about this?
open cut with grassed slope and a nice archbridge overpass...

(Building 513, the eastern portal of the tunnel Komořany, after the exit slit route continues towards Jesenice.)
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Old April 29th, 2009, 12:11 PM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
yeah, but in this particular case they are beyond that compromise...
Your opinion. I don't think so, if you knew this place personally, I bet you'd have another opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
and what about this?
open cut with grassed slope and a nice archbridge overpass...
Yes, I wanted to mention that too, this is the other portal of that tunnel, there is also some cut&cover section, and after that there is
almost 2 km long open cut with one overpass and three ecoducts, so this is the case, where the open cut with overpasses is useful, but
not in the first case

Some pics of the overpass and ecoducts (credits to Kasme):

Cut&cover section:


Overpass and ecoducts


Ecoducts in open cut
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Old April 29th, 2009, 01:12 PM   #630
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there are 3 ecoducts...? Why?
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Old April 29th, 2009, 01:32 PM   #631
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wow. quite a long cut... is it for noise protection? (and why do they put that ecoducts so close to each other?)

here's a quick sketch of this low slope tunneling situation:

(I think the optimum lenght of the cut&cover section is somewhere between #1 and #2.
#3 is unnecessarily too long...)

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Old April 29th, 2009, 01:35 PM   #632
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Quote:
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there are 3 ecoducts...? Why?
If I knew ...

As stated in project documentation:
- first one is for biocorridor, field-road and ephemeral stream (občasná vodoteč)
- second one for biocorridor and ephemeral stream
- third one for biocorridor

Too much biocorridors though, don't you think? In visualisation of this stretch they say, that there are three defined biocorridors, so they made ecoduct for each of them ...
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Old April 29th, 2009, 02:00 PM   #633
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I just wonder how much do we taxpayers pay for this... and who's pocket is going to be filled up. I simply don't believe that the real reason for this waste is a "green reason".
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Old April 29th, 2009, 03:30 PM   #634
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I just wonder how much do we taxpayers pay for this... and who's pocket is going to be filled up. I simply don't believe that the real reason for this waste is a "green reason".
There are many questions concerning the quantity of engineering objects on R1 (brigdges, tunnels), the most controversial might be the Lochkov valley bridge, that could be replaced by eastern bypass of Lochkov and a bit longer tunnel to the Vltava valley...

On the other hand, these ecoducts are pretty simple constructions, prefabricated, uniform, in comparation to those big bridges and tunnels. I know this place a bit and I have to say there is some animal traffic there But I still think it wasn't necessary to build three in row, a longer one could be enough.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 03:59 PM   #635
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Such ecoducts are usually not very expensive and their cost is comparable to building a bit more complicated overpass or two.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 05:36 PM   #636
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Quote:
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Such ecoducts are usually not very expensive and their cost is comparable to building a bit more complicated overpass or two.
Yes, definitely... And it's also nice to see it while driving Pretty side effect
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 02:19 PM   #637
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A stretch of the expressway R6 (and subsequently I/6) between Cheb and Sokolov. All missing parts of the expressway in Karlovarsky Region are u/c.

Former Czech-German border Pomezi-Schirnding


Behind Cheb, towards Sokolov (Prague)























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Old May 6th, 2009, 08:05 PM   #638
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We celebrated an anniversary of 70 years of the motorway construction in the Czech Republic (in former Czechoslovakia) on Saturday, May 2.

The Road and Motorway Directorate of the Czech Republic published a book 70 Years of the Motorway in Photographs at 2nd May (a start of the construction of the national motorway - the present-day D1). The book is in both Czech and English, see the link.

Some pics, for instance:

The first stretch of the D1 between Prague and Mirošovice (at the beginning of the 70's)


The North-south tangent in Prague (70's)


and the same stretch of D1 today
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Old May 6th, 2009, 08:18 PM   #639
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So you used to have yellow markings? For how many years?
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Old May 6th, 2009, 08:36 PM   #640
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I have no idea. I grew up already in the Czech Republic, but I asked in our czech forum and I hope I'll have an answer ASAP
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