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Old May 6th, 2009, 08:54 PM   #641
Qwert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auto_bahner View Post
I have no idea. I grew up already in the Czech Republic, but I asked in our czech forum and I hope I'll have an answer ASAP
According to the book:

Quote:
Transition from yellow to white horizontal traffic signs. When it
turned out that both our standards and European standards
allow white road markings for motorways as well, the foreign
purchase of yellow paint was abandoned.
There is no date when it happened, but this text is surrounded by pictures from the first half of 1970's.

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Old May 6th, 2009, 09:02 PM   #642
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Frankly speaking, this is the first time I hear about using yellow color in Czech...
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Old May 6th, 2009, 09:07 PM   #643
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Probably before the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals in 1968.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:03 PM   #644
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Great book! I thought the first motorway was between Brno and Jihlava.

But I don't understand sth: construction of motorways started already in 1939, but the first section was opened only in 1971? And why does by the first expressway section say "rok 1972", but "datum zprovozňení 1962"? (page 86 in the book)
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Old May 6th, 2009, 10:51 PM   #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X236K View Post
Frankly speaking, this is the first time I hear about using yellow color in Czech...
I guess there were only few such sections. At home I have old "Autoatlas ČSSR" from 1975. It's in quite bad shape , but on its top page yellow markings are visible (sorry for quality):



BTW, another interesting fact:

At the beginning of July 1971 the Prague–
Mirošovice section is ready to be put into
operation. For motorways yellow road surface
markings were reserved. It was not equipped
with a centre guardrail since the centre barrier
line was considered at that time to be sufficient
security against driving into opposing
traffic. The traffic regulations did not contain
speed limits outside of municipalities.
For that
reason drivers of fast cars could make maximum
use of vehicle speeds with impunity.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:07 AM   #646
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During the commie times in Poland there was no speed limit outside towns too...
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:19 AM   #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Great book! I thought the first motorway was between Brno and Jihlava.

But I don't understand sth: construction of motorways started already in 1939, but the first section was opened only in 1971? And why does by the first expressway section say "rok 1972", but "datum zprovozňení 1962"? (page 86 in the book)
1962 a dual carriageway was opened, but the signage for "motorroad" appeared long after that, but I don't know when The first real motorway was D1 in 1971, term "rychlostní silnice" was first used in early 1990's.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #648
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That yellow markings were chosen to distinguish the motorway from other roads, but as stated before, it wasn't necessary, so white color was preffered. The change happened already in early 1970's. AFAIK the only stretch marked with yellow color was the first Praha - Mirošovice stretch.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:29 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
The first real motorway was D1 in 1971
So they were building it for 32 years?
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:34 AM   #650
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So they were building it for 32 years?
In the sense of time period yes, but if we take the real construction works, then no:

The construction of D1 started in 1939 and was stopped in 1941 with some bridges in advanced construction phase. Then the construction was restarted in 1947-1950, some bridges were completed, but the progress was very slow and then the construction was stopped in 1950, because commies chosen to build more schools and commieblocks etc...
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:38 AM   #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Probably before the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals in 1968.
Hm, but it's interesting that just Austria used yellow markings until the middle of 90's Some countries (in Europe), e.g. Norway, use yellow markings till now. On the other hand, some countries (Slovenia, Croatia) started to use white markings with the beginning of 90's.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:38 AM   #652
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Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
In the sense of time period yes, but if we take the real construction works, then no:

The construction of D1 started in 1939 and was stopped in 1941 with some bridges in advanced construction phase. Then the construction was restarted in 1947-1950, some bridges were completed, but the progress was very slow and then the construction was stopped in 1950, because commies chosen to build more schools and commieblocks etc...
I see; thanks for this question-answering post.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:45 AM   #653
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On the other hand, some countries (Slovenia, Croatia) started to use white markings with the beginning of 90's.
Beginning of 2000s.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:56 AM   #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
In the sense of time period yes, but if we take the real construction works, then no:

The construction of D1 started in 1939 and was stopped in 1941 with some bridges in advanced construction phase. Then the construction was restarted in 1947-1950, some bridges were completed, but the progress was very slow and then the construction was stopped in 1950, because commies chosen to build more schools and commieblocks etc...
I saw a document about a construction of motorways today and there were mentioned two main facts.

Firstly, the commies forgot "to include" the construction of the motorwary into the five-year plan in effect, but it's not simple as it looks. After the war, the commies didn't expect so massive growth of the individual automobile conveyance and secondly the main role was intended for trains. Cars should have played only the second, insignificant role.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:58 AM   #655
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Quote:
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Beginning of 2000s.
Really? The time is running so fast...
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Old May 7th, 2009, 04:47 AM   #656
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Really? The time is running so fast...
Slowly in your case.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 07:49 AM   #657
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btw, motorway history:

why is the prague beltway in a very initial stage?

according to the "70 years" book the its first section (slivenec-trebonice, 6.9km) was opened in 1983.

since then (26 years) it was extended with 9km in 4 stages...

why is that extremely low tempo?

Praha is in a very centralised position (maybe more like budapest) I assume that there is a significant transit traffic...
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Old May 7th, 2009, 09:32 AM   #658
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why is the prague beltway in a very initial stage?

Praha is in a very centralised position (maybe more like budapest) I assume that there is a significant transit traffic...
Hm, tough question

The concept of Prague road system is based on 2 ring roads (Prazsky okruh and Mestsky okruh) and 7 radial roads connecting them (so called ZAKOS - zakladni komunikacni system). In 70's and 80's the system was even more complicated containing 3 ring roads (in NW two in one corridor) and 10 radial roads. This plan was financed by Prague municipality, not by national budget. This changed in late 90's when the construction, financing and maintenance of R1 was transffered to the state (namely Road a Motorway Directorate).

Today the transit traffic uses mostly parts of this system. Stretches of ZAKOS were built according to actual needs and especially according to its difficulty. So the most difficult parts with Vltava bridges were postponed for some time and the inner ring (Mestsky okruh) was used for transit traffic (Barrandov bridge, Jižní spojka), despite the fact that MO is intended esp. for inner-city traffic.

After 1989 there was a rapid growth in traffic volumes and the construction potential went very fast behind the real needs. So now we are completing stretches that were needed let's say a decade ago.

Now we face another problem, the outer ring road R1 in its southern part is designed in 2x2 configuration and everybody knows that it is insufficient, but with those tunnels and bridges it would be very very hard to change the design it in final preparation stages without postponing the construction by several years with much higher costs. Likely, the northern part will be built in 2x3 configuration to satisfy the future needs.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 09:42 AM   #659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
btw, motorway history:

why is the prague beltway in a very initial stage?

according to the "70 years" book the its first section (slivenec-trebonice, 6.9km) was opened in 1983.

since then (26 years) it was extended with 9km in 4 stages...

why is that extremely low tempo?

Praha is in a very centralised position (maybe more like budapest) I assume that there is a significant transit traffic...
Prague has central position within Bohemia, but not within whole Czech Republic. And the reason why the outer ring is progressing so slowly may be the fact Prague has more rugged topography than Budapest.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 10:06 AM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapman:cz View Post
The concept of Prague road system is based on 2 ring roads (Prazsky okruh and Mestsky okruh) and 7 radial roads connecting them (so called ZAKOS - zakladni komunikacni system).
I've counted 9 radials...
(oops: two of them dont reach the MO...)

Quote:
This plan was financed by Prague municipality, not by national budget. This changed in late 90's when the construction, financing and maintenance of R1 was transffered to the state (namely Road a Motorway Directorate).
wow. thats ridiculous...
its very unfair to finance a motorway ring (which is the hub of the national network) by a city...
(maybe this was the main cause of the delay...)

Quote:
After 1989 there was a rapid growth in traffic volumes and the construction potential went very fast behind the real needs.
So now we are completing stretches that were needed let's say a decade ago.
I dont think that the "construction potential" was a problem: you have built quite huge amount of motorways in the meantime...

We are "in the same shoe": we've built many new motorway sections in the last decade (many unimportant ones) and we were continuously postponing the M0...

fortunately the new eastern sector of M0 is ready and we have the 70% of the full ring...
(but "that were needed let's say a decade ago"...)


Quote:
Now we face another problem, the outer ring road R1 in its southern part is designed in 2x2 configuration and everybody knows that it is insufficient, but with those tunnels and bridges it would be very very hard to change the design it in final preparation stages without postponing the construction by several years with much higher costs. Likely, the northern part will be built in 2x3 configuration to satisfy the future needs.
wow. thats sux...
furtunately we've built the eastern sector to be upgradable to 2x3 easily, and we start the widening of the southern sector this year to 2x3 by building the second half profile...

Last edited by H123Laci; May 7th, 2009 at 10:35 AM.
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