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Old May 18th, 2009, 08:09 PM   #681
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but comparatively, it wouldnt be that expensive
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Old May 18th, 2009, 08:55 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X236K View Post
That's D1... money are being spent on the other places
between Brno and CZ/SK border?
according to google its D2...

you spent it wrong...
we repaved the (used to be) similar M7 in 2000 and it was a right decision...

It has no sence to build motorways for (relatively) low traffic, while the most significant motorway with heavy traffic is in unacceptable condition...
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Old May 19th, 2009, 12:05 AM   #683
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D1 and D2 are very old motorways. In this case simple repaving won't help for long time as the roadbed is already pretty much damaged. But, it should be done anyway even though it's expensive, because some sections are indeed terrible.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 01:42 AM   #684
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Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
I came back yesterday from a one week holiday in Czech Rep. (liberec region)

You have quite nice main and local roads. The pavement quality is very good on most of them.

But the D1 between Brno and Prague (and D2 south of Brno) is TERRIBLE!

why dont you repave it??

and the cloverleaves at Brno are very dangerous!

some of their right turning ramps connect to the C/D lanes WITHOUT accelerating lanes!

this is ridiculous...
Yeah, D1 really sucks, everybody knows it. Actually, there is a project for 3+3 upgrade on whole Praha-Brno section, but before that many sections should be repaved, also as a preparation for enlargement works (to enable one carriageway to carry 4 lanes). But there are still many variatons... Money is problem now, "we" decided to build the highway backbone of the country first and then repave...

And regarding those cloverleaves, they are to be rebuilt in some 5 years, along with 3+3 upgrade, they are both from 70's, when regulations were totally different (AADT as well).
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Old May 19th, 2009, 08:37 AM   #685
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yeah, I know that it will be a hard and expensive work, as the M7 reconstruction was too...
but IMO we made a right decision to reconstruct the M7 first...

cloverleaves:
why to wait years for the widening?
its only about a few 100-200m long accelerating lanes...

arent there many accidents?
I went across them 2 times, and I missed giving the right of way 2 times...

It was only pure luck not making an accident...
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Old May 19th, 2009, 12:48 PM   #686
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Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
yeah, I know that it will be a hard and expensive work, as the M7 reconstruction was too...
but IMO we made a right decision to reconstruct the M7 first...

cloverleaves:
why to wait years for the widening?
its only about a few 100-200m long accelerating lanes...
I totally agree with you, but priorities are a bit different, D1 is permanently "under reconstruction" on many sections, pavement is being replaced on some short stretches every year, but there is not enough will to make it as a big investment on long stretches. D2 is a crap but still, there is a motorway, many places don't have it yet.

Those cloverleaves are dangerous, but accidents don't happen there in some extraordinary number. People there are used to it, itis not the only place with STOP signs. But again it should be upgraded with those acceleration lanes, but not enough interest in that at official places...
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Old May 19th, 2009, 02:12 PM   #687
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STOP signs?

I cant remember any stop sign there, only the usual "give way" signs...

or do I remember wrong?


I tried to survive the crap sections of D1 and D2 rushing in the much less wrong inner lanes at speeds between 130 and 140 km/h...
(I hope I wont be fined...)
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Old May 19th, 2009, 02:48 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
between Brno and CZ/SK border?
according to google its D2...

you spent it wrong...
we repaved the (used to be) similar M7 in 2000 and it was a right decision...

It has no sence to build motorways for (relatively) low traffic, while the most significant motorway with heavy traffic is in unacceptable condition...
Sorry for that.. I didn't read your post well
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Old May 19th, 2009, 03:17 PM   #689
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Brno cloverleaves should be rebuilt relatively soon along with 3+3 widening of D1 past Brno (map, pdf) which should take place between 2010 and 2014.

As for the bad quality of D1 and D2 surfaces, imho the decision to postpone their major overhaul until the backbone of highway network is completed is a right one. D1 in particular is well close (if not beyond) its maximum capacity and any long lasting construction works that would reduce its capacity are very much unthinkable without an alternative trunk road from Bohemia to Moravia completed (R35). It's better to have an unconfortable obsolete highway that still gets you from A to B at 130 kph in realtive safety (which D1 still warrants unless there's too heavy traffic (which there is but that's not a problem a nicer surface would remedy)) than a traffic collapse.

Keep in mind Czech republic is much more polycentric than Hungary and D1 which currently links whole of Moravia including (relatively) large cities like Brno (0,5m metro), Ostrava (1,0m metro) and many 100k cities (Olomouc, Zlin) to Prague and western Europe is more vital to the national economy than any highway in Hungary let alone a leisure highway like M7.

Last edited by HiRazor; May 19th, 2009 at 03:26 PM.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 03:38 PM   #690
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Quote:
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Sorry for that.. I didn't read your post well
"to be wrong is human" said the urchin and climbed down from the scrubbing brush...
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Old May 19th, 2009, 03:49 PM   #691
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When the R35 will be finished?
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Old May 19th, 2009, 04:04 PM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRazor View Post
Keep in mind Czech republic is much more polycentric than Hungary and D1 which currently links whole of Moravia including (relatively) large cities like Brno (0,5m metro), Ostrava (1,0m metro) and many 100k cities (Olomouc, Zlin) to Prague and western Europe is more vital to the national economy than any highway in Hungary let alone a leisure highway like M7.
yeah, I know that, but this is another reason to reconstruct it asap....

and the traffic situation is not that bad: http://www.ceskedalnice.cz/prilohy/intenzity-2005.jpg

the nominal capacity of a 2x2 is 80.000, about the twice of the current traffic volume...


traffic disturbance is really an important issue, but it can be reduced by sectioning... (reconstructing short 2-3-4km sections and leaving undisturbed sections between them...)
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Old May 19th, 2009, 04:23 PM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRazor View Post
Brno cloverleaves should be rebuilt relatively soon along with 3+3 widening of D1 past Brno (map, pdf) which should take place between 2010 and 2014.
wow, quite an intensive recontruction...

but there are some problems:

- you cannot acces directly D1 from the D2 IC of the supermarkets and vica versa...

- in the D1x52 IC the two new half-direct left turn ramps' common section is too short for weaving, and its curve makes it worse...
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Old May 19th, 2009, 04:34 PM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
wow, quite an intensive recontruction...

but there are some problems:

- you cannot acces directly D1 from the D2 IC of the supermarkets and vica versa...

- in the D1x52 IC the two new half-direct left turn ramps' common section is too short for weaving, and its curve makes it worse...
Cool, you pointed out two of three "problems" of this project , the third is the short 3+3 section between those two interchanges, it should be 4+4 to enable better traffic flow.

The short weaving section is really stupid, I hope they'll change it.

As for the direct connection to supermarkets, it could be solved by using old ramps of cloverleaf, but it will require two or three 270° turns in a row But still better then nothing...
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Old May 19th, 2009, 05:20 PM   #695
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yeah, I have eagle eyes...

IMO these problems can be solved easily:

- weaving on left turn ramps: ramps have to be separated...
(ramps have to be weaved, not the traffic... )

- supermaket acces:
the problem is caused by the attemp to avoid the weaving between the supermaket IC traffic and D1xD2 IC traffic...

this is unnecessary: simple C/D lanes or roads - which connect the D1xD2 IC with supermarket IC - would separate this weaving traffic from the thru lanes...
(we used this solution on the M4, M5: M0xM5 and M0xM4 ICs...)

- 2x4 between the two main ICs:
yeah it would be practical if the D1 would be 2x3...
but on the plans it is only 2x2... and in this case the 2x3 is enough on that section...
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Old May 19th, 2009, 05:46 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post

this is unnecessary: simple C/D lanes or roads - which connect the D1xD2 IC with supermarket IC - would separate this weaving traffic from the thru lanes...
(we used this solution on the M4, M5 ICs...)
But this is not a good example, because in case of M0 both interchanges on radials are INSIDE the circle so that the transit traffic avoids the city-to-shops traffic. Here it would be pretty unpractical, because the numbers of people going shopping etc. is quite huge there. It's good like that as well, on D2 exit 3, there is also a shopping centre that people coming from D1 can use
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Old May 20th, 2009, 10:50 AM   #697
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Huh, another aerials just being delivered to our mailbox!

So here we are, Prague Outer Ring Road, southern part, photos by Martin Holík

Lahovice viaduct entering Lochkov tunnel, in background Lochkov bridge ocnstruction


Lahovice viaduct again


Lahovice viaduct with Berounka and Vltava rivers and Lahovice interchange (R4) in between


Lahovice interchange, Vltava bridge, Šabatka cut&cover and western portal of Komořany tunnel


Komořany tunnel - eastern portal with Cholupice - Točná overpass


Cholupice ecoducts


Písnice interchange


Near Jesenice, place where an interchange with future D3 motorway may have been built


Backwards, a cut for a short 4+4 section


Jesenice exit, eastbound


Botič valley bridge


Near Osnice, heading to D1


Interchange with D1 near Nupaky



Link to the complete gallery (60 pics):
http://foto.ceskedalnice.cz/vase-foto/090519-R1/
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Old May 20th, 2009, 11:20 AM   #698
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impressive works and nice advance...

but the alignment is not so nice: its too "bumpy", mainly on the south side...

the old plan was much better:




p.s.: I cant see any hungarian motorway network map on the following page:
http://www.motorway.cz/maps

maybe this one is suitable: http://roads.extra.hu/road_plans/mo_...alapterkep.jpg
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Old May 20th, 2009, 11:48 AM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
but the alignment is not so nice: its too "bumpy", mainly on the south side...

the old plan was much better:

http://www.ceskedalnice.cz/prilohy/praha-zakos.jpg
Hm, but in environmental sense it was totally unacceptable, huge cuts going through some spectacular parts of Prague's nature, not a good idea, it's much better now. But if you take only transport advantages into account, then it was better

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
p.s.: I cant see any hungarian motorway network map on the following page:
http://www.motorway.cz/maps

maybe this one is suitable: http://roads.extra.hu/road_plans/mo_...alapterkep.jpg
Added, thanks.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 12:56 PM   #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
p.s.: I cant see any hungarian motorway network map on the following page:
http://www.motorway.cz/maps

maybe this one is suitable: http://roads.extra.hu/road_plans/mo_...alapterkep.jpg
Btw anyone knows what's the difference between "autopálya" and "autoút"? (physically/legalwise)
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