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Old September 14th, 2010, 09:19 AM   #1241
mapman:cz
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Oh man, just try not to mention aktualne.cz articles here, names as Holub Fránek and Baroch are well known for their "impartiality" in case of motorways (highways). They tend to guess and literally invent some facts to make their articles more interesting and readable...

New brochure about Prague Ring Road (R1) was issued by RSD (motorway authority), it's only in czech but full of pictures and graphics, you can download it here: http://www.rsd.cz/doc/Silnicni-a-dal...publikace-o-r1
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Old September 14th, 2010, 11:33 AM   #1242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Taking E461 through Mikulov might be a bit shorter and perhaps same 15 minutes of saved time, but I am not sure. It is perhaps easier ride to stay all the time on D2 - D1.
There's road work with right lane closed until 31 October on R52 from Mikulov in the direction to Brno between 7.8 km and 5.45 km (right before Brno) thus you should expect some traffic delays. I advice to stay on original plan and take right at Wilfersdorf on 47 over Grosskrut and Reintal into CZ, this is plenty and straight unfrequented road.

Highway coupon for 10 days can you buy at decently sized OMV gas station on left side cca 1 km after ex-border crossing or AGIP gas station in Breclav on right side.

D2 highway from Breclav to Brno is pretty devastated from trucks so stay in the left lane, eventually at 140-150 km/h and watch for Passat R32 at your back...
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Old September 14th, 2010, 12:38 PM   #1243
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When are they going to open the last part at the D8 around Lovosice? I think this part takes very long time to build.
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Old September 14th, 2010, 01:00 PM   #1244
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Just to answer Mapman first. Well I am never going to be pretending that the infrastructure business in CZ is working in the way it should be working. The text depicts part of the reality rather very well. I noticed that your stance on the corruption issues in the construction industry is rather neutral... My not. And I think the more is this issue discussed, the more incentives there are to change it.



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When are they going to open the last part at the D8 around Lovosice? I think this part takes very long time to build.
Indeed it takes very long. This missing part will certainly not be opened before 2012. In the original scheme it should have been finished already in 2008 and than reschedulled for 2010. This is due to the heavy fights between the investor and ecological group called Deti Zeme (Children of the Earth). google translate of their page on road infrastructure.

In general it is a story where very stubborn guy with huge ego and green brain hits poor burrocracy quality decision making with massive hammer of ecological and construction procedural law.
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Old September 14th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #1245
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Quote:
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Just to answer Mapman first. Well I am never going to be pretending that the infrastructure business in CZ is working in the way it should be working. The text depicts part of the reality rather very well. I noticed that your stance on the corruption issues in the construction industry is rather neutral... My not. And I think the more is this issue discussed, the more incentives there are to change it.
And I have to say I agree with you in case of corruption etc., my post was only about "quality" of articles from aktualne.cz, if it would be from another newspaper or newsportal, I probably wouldn't say anything against it. It was said just to be aware of it...

Regarding D8, it's a nice performance (maybe i can even write "show") that depicts the current status of work of our bureaucrats on all stages of our state administration, generating a waste instead of legal binding documents when dealing with different permits for motorways... But taking the wages into account, I can't expect much from people with hardly a 1000 € of gross salary...
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Old September 14th, 2010, 03:05 PM   #1246
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So for D8 Lovosice - Relovice, construction hasn't even commenced yet? :O I thought it was U/C since 2007.
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Old September 14th, 2010, 03:28 PM   #1247
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So for D8 Lovosice - Relovice, construction hasn't even commenced yet? :O I thought it was U/C since 2007.
Decision of localization (territorial decision) has been revoked by supreme administration court, so parts of the stretch still don't have a construction permit and it can't be issued without valid territorial decision. In CZ building permits can be issued for different construction objects separately. But this is the problem of bad legislation (too many permits needed) in combination with unnecessary (and sometimes incompetent) bureaucracy.... Complaints of Deti Zeme are just a secondary problem, that shows up those primary ones.
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Old September 14th, 2010, 03:56 PM   #1248
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Aerial pics of D8 from July 2010 - as you can see, construction went very well so far





Link to a leaflet (brochure) with a map: LINK
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Old September 14th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #1249
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And I have to say I agree with you in case of corruption etc., my post was only about "quality" of articles from aktualne.cz, if it would be from another newspaper or newsportal, I probably wouldn't say anything against it. It was said just to be aware of it...
Ok, its good to know that someone with much more inside also sniff the rotten stuff. About the article... I wouldn't know abut their poor quality (authors), however I just randomly came across this article and it seemed to me as naming few interesting facts... I hanged it over here, only because it was already in English and that is rather rare to get from czech media... otherwise there are much more rotten issues deserving public presentation internationally discussed in the czech media.
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Old September 14th, 2010, 04:14 PM   #1250
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Aerial pics of D8 from July 2010 - as you can see, construction went very well so far
Ah, so construction did start in 2007, but was stopped somewhere later on? These works look quite advanced.
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Old September 14th, 2010, 04:25 PM   #1251
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Ah, so construction did start in 2007, but was stopped somewhere later on? These works look quite advanced.
Indeed it is advanced... but only in some sections. Some sections did not yet seen a shovel in the ground. That is as Mapman pointed out due to the fact that every special construction part gets its own construction permit.

It is rather complicated legal story.

Thus there were parts that got a permit already and the construction started. Luckily no one tried to revoke it and the results are already build. In other cases the Deti Zeme tried to revoke it and were sucesfull either before the actuall construction started or right in the middle of it thus leaving the site in full stop.

With other sections was yet different problem. They did not have the construction permit yet, and prior to obtaining it the group Deti Zeme courtnailed the whole motorway "territorial decission" down and thus these section are now virtually without the possibility of obtaining the construction permit. Given the fact that some of these section (an interchange) would take around two years to construct. We are nowhere closer than minimum two to three years of finishing the higway.

Picant story about this is, that the investor (the Directorate of Motorways..) knew about this problem with deadline all along, but just spit it out this summer. Funny enough that in the brochure Mapman posted (its dated in april) is given the opening date of 12/2010 and it still hangs on the pages. And they knew all along it is impossible to open in nowhere sooner than 2012...

So this is the burreaucracy and schweinerei we are talking about.

On the other hand. I guess there were around 20 different court appeals from this single group. Not counting endless amount of notices and protests...

Last edited by Surel; September 14th, 2010 at 04:31 PM.
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Old September 14th, 2010, 04:27 PM   #1252
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Precisely, construction wasn't stopped, it went to construction phase gradually (object by object) in order of issued building permits. Already issued permits are legal, construction is ongoing, but some small sections are not. And yet, the building permit for the rest couldn't be issued until the territorial decision is issued. There is a new possibility since 2009 - merged territorial and building proceedings - so maybe this will help. But there are other permits to be gained yet, such as "exception for passage through a protected biotope" that was revoked as well...
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Old September 14th, 2010, 09:21 PM   #1253
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Some of the Czech motorways I passed on last week:

D2: Bratislava - Brno



D1: Brno - Prague (part 1):



D1: Brno - Prague (part 2):

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Old September 14th, 2010, 09:35 PM   #1254
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Quote:
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Indeed it takes very long. This missing part will certainly not be opened before 2012. In the original scheme it should have been finished already in 2008 and than reschedulled for 2010. This is due to the heavy fights between the investor and ecological group called Deti Zeme (Children of the Earth). google translate of their page on road infrastructure.

In general it is a story where very stubborn guy with huge ego and green brain hits poor burrocracy quality decision making with massive hammer of ecological and construction procedural law.
I think this is bad. D8 is an important motorway and that should be finished now. It is a part of the important motorway from Prague to Berlin.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 04:27 PM   #1255
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Tommorow (20.9.2010) the new 23 km long southern part of Prague Ring Road will be opened to traffic. On this link you may found links to photos and videos from last days, covering all important parts of this expressway.

There is also a brand new video document about the construction of this part - with czech commentary only, but full of nice views and graphics.

This new part is expected to be opened to traffic since 12am, transit traffic from D1 motorway (Brno, Wien, Ostrava, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, SE Poland etc.) to D5 motorway (Nürnberg, München, France, Benelux) will then completely avoid streets of Prague on a completely grade-separated free-flow route.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 07:44 PM   #1256
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I remember that at the entrance in Prague there were queues full of trucks on the first lane. I hope that they will disappear now.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 09:39 PM   #1257
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mapman, do you know price per km for these three sections? I've read three numbers ranging from 17Mld to 22Mld Kč. I mean costs including remarkings etc.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 09:53 PM   #1258
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part 512: 8,75 km / 3,326 mld CZK
part 513: 8,34 km / 4,520 mld CZK
part 514: 6,03 km / 7,511 mld CZK
all parts: 23,12 km / 15,357 mld CZK

That's approx 664 mil. CZK per km in average. It's w/o VAT and w/o pre-construction costs.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 10:02 PM   #1259
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Some € 27 million per kilometer. Quite expensive, but one has to consider there are a lot of viaducts and tunnels on this one.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 10:09 PM   #1260
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Thanks, it's expensive but could be worse probably. 22 Mld Kč may includes reconstruction of 515 and maybe VAT (?).
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