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Old May 14th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #1801
ChrisZwolle
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Those photos are mainly from the Bílinka - Rehlovice section where construction re-commenced last week.

I'm stunned by the cost though, € 120 million for just 3.5 kilometers. I assume the Czech government will receive an EU reimbursement for this project?
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Old May 14th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #1802
darko06
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Inner city ring in Prague ...
... Underground parking facilities above the tunnel.




It's very impressive from architectural point of view. Congratulations!
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Old May 14th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #1803
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Those photos are mainly from the Bílinka - Rehlovice section where construction re-commenced last week.

I'm stunned by the cost though, € 120 million for just 3.5 kilometers. I assume the Czech government will receive an EU reimbursement for this project?
Thx, I fixed the link. I make these small mistakes far too often... too much multitasking I guess.

yeah, its costly, therefore I put it there. For first, its because it took so long because of those enviromental courts etc. Then there is the glass bridge. But anyway its overpriced as almost all motorway constructions that were started in the late 2000.


They wished they would get the EU funding. But currently there is much of the funding on hold. Don't forget the funding is paid after the project completition, and it doesnt have to be paid when problems are found. And there are many problems found with czech projects in general .
(in fact in the netto terms in may happen that because of much structural funds blocked the CZ will become net payer into EU).

Especially for this project. Reasons? Not clear tendering, budgeting, etc. Currently the EU funding doesnt work in CZ that much.
It sucks, but I agree with it. Though I think everywhere is corruption, just the sophistication is different. I wonder if the clima will be able to change here. I guess the CZ missed the moment, like so many times....

No wonder, its the fault of CZ. Too much corruption, too many overpriced tenders, not clear budgeting, contracting, etc. I hope there will not be anymore financing of the private villas in Italy and Dubai for the transportation minister, whose construciton company (that he supposedly sold before becoming minister), became quite succesfull after he became minister. Put this article into google to get the image (article.

I hope its getting better in the last years, but who knows.

BTW just for fun. In the NL there are motorways bridges that open for the ship. In CZ there is railway bridge bridge that lifts for the ship... although there is no ship that would use it. LOL. Another project where millions were lost without any concept just to make someone fat rich. 1.3 bln CZK = 53 mln EURO

Last edited by Surel; May 14th, 2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 08:25 PM   #1804
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Hello

I need to ask you guys again wether is it possible to take the prague outer ring from the end of D8 to D1 towards brno. there is this vysocanska radiala. Is that finished so i can exit
Kbelska and take this radial and continue on R1 in vychodni spojka and sterboholska spojka and finally D1???

Thanks in advance
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #1805
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No wonder, its the fault of CZ. Too much corruption, too many overpriced tenders, not clear budgeting, contracting, etc.
Are you somewhere in the know or just echoe what media say?

I'm asking because czech media suck big time in accurate reporting of nearly anything.

If only half of the corruption scandals czech media serve us is as fabricated as the recent "corruption case" of that south Bohemian farmer MP who 2 years ago bought some 100.000 sqm of arable land in addition to what he already had , on 2000 sqm of it a motorway was planned which everyone, including seller, knew for at least 10 years and now sold the 2000 sqm needed for the motorway to RSD for standard expropriation price which is by regulation substantialy higher than a price of arable land (which is also a generally known fact) and is now seriously accused by media from abusing the super secret information he might acquire as an MP - such that the motorway (in zoning plans since at least 2002) will be built there, we are fairly little corrupt.

Anyone with a clue would know how off mark these accusations are. Unfortunately czech journos are clueless and so are many of their readers/viewers.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #1806
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Hello

I need to ask you guys again wether is it possible to take the prague outer ring from the end of D8 to D1 towards brno. there is this vysocanska radiala. Is that finished so i can exit
Kbelska and take this radial and continue on R1 in vychodni spojka and sterboholska spojka and finally D1???

Thanks in advance
Yes, that is possible, but I doubt if it's really faster. It's a more relaxing drive though, compared to the steep downhill stop-and-go traffic on Kbelská.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #1807
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Yes, that is possible, but I doubt if it's really faster. It's a more relaxing drive though, compared to the steep downhill stop-and-go traffic on Kbelská.
Depends... during the peak hours, it is definitely better to take the detour.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #1808
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Originally Posted by HiRazor View Post
Are you somewhere in the know or just echoe what media say?

I'm asking because czech media suck big time in accurate reporting of nearly anything.

If only half of the corruption scandals czech media serve us is as fabricated as the recent "corruption case" of that south Bohemian farmer MP who 2 years ago bought some 100.000 sqm of arable land in addition to what he already had , on 2000 sqm of it a motorway was planned which everyone, including seller, knew for at least 10 years and now sold the 2000 sqm needed for the motorway to RSD for standard expropriation price which is by regulation substantialy higher than a price of arable land (which is also a generally known fact) and is now seriously accused by media from abusing the super secret information he might acquire as an MP - such that the motorway (in zoning plans since at least 2002) will be built there, we are fairly little corrupt.

Anyone with a clue would know how off mark these accusations are. Unfortunately czech journos are clueless and so are many of their readers/viewers.
I dont think that czech media suck. I think they do their work. Unfortunatelly they cant do the work for police and state attorneys. Secondly the czech legal enviroment sucks. Third, I dont think that denial helps anything. You can sing stories about how well everything works and how the media are bad, but that doesnt change it to reality. Mixing some probably morally questionable deal done by a polititian with corruption comes from you, not me. If the polititian thinks it will make him popular, its his responsibility to do it. Personally I wouldn like to vote for such a polititian, because I wouldnt trust him, but I dont know much about this case.

I am talking systematic corruption, big money, bad legislation. I am not echoing anything that is not a common knowledge that anyone with bit of critical thinking, education and common sense can see. And as you said, if only half the stories were true, they should be investigated and there would be needed few more jailhouses to accomodate all these people. The problem in CZ is that the justice nor police doesnt work the way it should.

I do point at the dirty laundry on public. Thats the only way how we can get rid of it. I would rather be without EU funds than see half of them being privatized.

The cases I pointed out were in fact criticized by the EU and are in danger of losing the EU money or already lost them. Thats a fact.

The Czech Republic has worse public tendering (at least in the infrastructure) than most european countries. Deal with it.

Last edited by Surel; May 14th, 2012 at 09:50 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #1809
HiRazor
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I beg to reiterate the question. Do you have a real life first hand experience with public procurement in Czech republic or does all your knowledge in that field come form the media?

And may I ask for clarification what was immoral on that deal I was reffering to?

NB
Make no mistake, I'm the last one who would whitewash anything nor do I deny there are instances of highly dubious public contracts which deserve attention of police, however the general hysteria spread by the media we are in today has gone way too far and is fairly inappropriate to the real situation and re fight against corruption is even counter-productive (why to bother to be honest if media will make a villain out of you anyway?).

Do you remember moral and practical consequences of "crying wolf"?

Last edited by HiRazor; May 14th, 2012 at 10:20 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #1810
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I beg to reiterate the question. Do you have a real life first hand experience with public procurement in Czech republic or does all your knowledge in that field come form the media?
I did not corrupt or was corrupted if you ask for about that. But does this qualify for commenting on corruption?

On the other side I discussed the topic with friends from academia and business and it exists. Its also interesting to go through studies on the public tendering in the cz. E.g. Zindex is interesting place to start: http://www.zindex.cz/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRazor View Post
And may I ask for clarification what was immoral on that deal I was reffering to?
It could have been immoral if the politician was buying it with the idea of high return and not sincerely informing the counterparty when asked about his intentions. Secondly. The motorway may be in the maps for years and it may be public information, but the insider information that politic could obtain and in fact also influence would be the date of the construction... But as I said, I dont see into this case and its not of my high concern. There are obvious corruption cases that I reffered to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRazor View Post
NB
Make no mistake, I'm the last one who would whitewash anything nor do I deny there are instances of highly dubious public contracts which deserve attention of police, however the general hysteria spread by the media we are in today has gone way too far and is fairly inappropriate to the real situation and re fight against corruption is even counter-productive (why to bother to be honest if media will make a villain out of you anyway?).

Do you remember moral and practical consequences of "crying wolf"?

general hysteria is not caused by media, but by the corruption itself. The corruption was not so painful subject in the years of economic growth. The pain came in the times when the resources are scarce. Then stealing causes much pain.

Lets say it with snowdog: The cup of the people's patience overflows And the cup is overflowing because there is not fight against corruption... as I said, the media do their job, the authorities and justice dont. Thats the problem.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #1811
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BTW some more info on the MP case in south Bohemain in czech aslo here http://forum.ceskedalnice.cz/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=3242
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Old May 15th, 2012, 12:18 AM   #1812
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Depends... during the peak hours, it is definitely better to take the detour.
aha.. well its confusing because last year I could not even take the Vysocancka radial so I was forced to go through Kbelska.. the reason why I want to take that detour is the many traffic lights and trucks on Kbelska.

Are you sure that the whole detour from D8 to D1 is into operation ?
it sounds too good to be true
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Old May 15th, 2012, 03:21 AM   #1813
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aha.. well its confusing because last year I could not even take the Vysocancka radial so I was forced to go through Kbelska.. the reason why I want to take that detour is the many traffic lights and trucks on Kbelska.

Are you sure that the whole detour from D8 to D1 is into operation ?
it sounds too good to be true
It is in operation. In June should be also the interchange Veselská x Kbelská without traffic lights map.

from www.ceskedalnice.cz some videos from the Vysočanská radiála and Kbelská
Quote:
Vysočanská radiála: Budovatelská - Kbelská http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sOGGFCYQt4

Vysočanská radiála: Kbelská - R10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EFzoMzU-08

up Kbelská http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjs6Oooq0E
The route D8-Kbelská-Vysočanská radiála (R10)-R1-Štěrboholská spojka - Jižní spojka - D1 will be then without traffic lights and section D8-Kbelská-Vysočanská radiála will be temporarily signed as Pražský okruh (Prague ring) till the eastern parts of the ring would be finished (5-10 years?)
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:04 AM   #1814
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It is in operation. In June should be also the interchange Veselská x Kbelská without traffic lights map.

from www.ceskedalnice.cz some videos from the Vysočanská radiála and Kbelská


The route D8-Kbelská-Vysočanská radiála (R10)-R1-Štěrboholská spojka - Jižní spojka - D1 will be then without traffic lights and section D8-Kbelská-Vysočanská radiála will be temporarily signed as Pražský okruh (Prague ring) till the eastern parts of the ring would be finished (5-10 years?)

Which eastern parts are you talking about?
Just to make it clear. Does the detour that i mentioned contain traffic lights??
And is it worth to take it this summer? (end of june)
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:13 AM   #1815
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This route should be traffic light free by then.

I'd say it's arguable that it's faster than route directly through Průmyslová. Slightly higher speed limits and lack of traffic lights hardly make up for the extra 8kms and the traffic can be really nasty during morning rush hours in the aforementioned direction.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #1816
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Which eastern parts are you talking about?
Parts 511 and 520 on this map. These are not yet in the construction.



The traffic light I was talking about is when you leave D8 and enter on Kbelská. The intersection will become free flowing interchange in June. You have to take it anyway, that is before your detout even starts.


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Just to make it clear. Does the detour that i mentioned contain traffic lights??
And is it worth to take it this summer? (end of june)
There are no traffic lights in the detour. Look at the second video I posted. It starts at Kbelská. It starts here. You merge on Vysočanská radiála. At 3.30 you leave Vysočanská radiála. Thats the start on the on the detour. I would take it. Is it worth? I dont know.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #1817
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Originally Posted by Bobek_Azbest View Post
This route should be traffic light free by then.

I'd say it's arguable that it's faster than route directly through Průmyslová. Slightly higher speed limits and lack of traffic lights hardly make up for the extra 8kms and the traffic can be really nasty during morning rush hours in the aforementioned direction.
Prumyslova is pissing me off every single morning. But I must admitt it is not that jammed as last year as Vysocanska is opened and gasolin price seems to force people think whether to drive or not.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 02:20 PM   #1818
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gasolin price seems to force people think whether to drive or not.
Research by economists generally shows that prevailing fuel prices have a big effect on what kind of vehicle people buy but only a small effect on how much they drive.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #1819
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Parts 511 and 520 on this map. These are not yet in the construction.



The traffic light I was talking about is when you leave D8 and enter on Kbelská. The intersection will become free flowing interchange in June. You have to take it anyway, that is before your detout even starts.




There are no traffic lights in the detour. Look at the second video I posted. It starts at Kbelská. It starts here. You merge on Vysočanská radiála. At 3.30 you leave Vysočanská radiála. Thats the start on the on the detour. I would take it. Is it worth? I dont know.
But if the 511 and 520 is not constructed how does vysocanska radial link with D1 towards Brno. Fly through ? :-D

Can you see the problem?

Btw your link is dead. Try again.

When driving at the end of D8, is there a sign that says: Brno ?
Thats All. Lol.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #1820
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Research by economists generally shows that prevailing fuel prices have a big effect on what kind of vehicle people buy but only a small effect on how much they drive.
Yep, automobility is pretty much price inelastic unless you go into extremes. The economic situation has more influence on traffic volumes than the gas prices. A poor economy means less transport and construction traffic and somewhat less commuting. In countries like Spain or Greece or some Walloon cities unemployment is at or over 20%, which surely has an impact on traffic volumes. Some toll roads in Spain face bankruptcy because of this.
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