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Old August 1st, 2013, 11:55 PM   #2481
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What long queues. I've never been in a long queue, and I am a regular... At times it takes a bit longer waiting at the toll plaza, especially when they've only got 1 or 2 counters open... And after you've paid they only let vehicle's through in intervals to stop everybody heading for the tunnel at once, and to secure the 150 metre safety distance...
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 01:52 AM   #2482
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What long queues. I've never been in a long queue, and I am a regular... At times it takes a bit longer waiting at the toll plaza, especially when they've only got 1 or 2 counters open... And after you've paid they only let vehicle's through in intervals to stop everybody heading for the tunnel at once, and to secure the 150 metre safety distance...
Will the tolls be removed when the tunnel has paid for itself? And if/when that happens, I wonder how much the traffic will increase...

Of course there will forever be maintenance costs, but they can't justify the toll that high, can they?
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 09:35 AM   #2483
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I don't think they will ever remove the tolls. Maintenance costs and the amount of staff employed are exceptionally high. All motorways on both ends are tolled as well, and all you need is a Belgium lorry and a number of deaths (which happened years ago) to throw lots of money into repair works...
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Old August 5th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #2484
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Maybe interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLmPqskkhLU
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Old August 5th, 2013, 09:31 PM   #2485
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I try to save money by avoiding most of toll highways when I have time before a delivery but this exemple is difficult to understand.
Try to save 2 or 3 euro by leaving highways 2 or 3 times is completely useless.For me.
Don't take toll highways at all if you are stingy or not enough rich.
This morning, two parisian vehicles in front of me on their route to Morocco (easy to know) preferred the very busy N10 in the Basque Country instead of the expensive A63.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 12:06 AM   #2486
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Cote d'Azur question

Hello french people!
After visiting the Cote d'Azur I have a question for you;
Why dosen't the La Provencale Highway follow the coast all the way to Saint Maxime/Tropez?
From Monaco to Cannes it follows the coast perfect up in the mountains, allowing one to pretty quickly go from one town to another, but after that you have either the slow coastal way or you have to go very far inland and take a small road through the forest to get to St. Maxime.

I get that back in the days the western part of the Cote d'Azur wasn't that heavily populated, but nowadays there surely has to be enough people to qualify for a highway?
It should start west of the Cannes Airport and go in the mountains at aproximately the same height as it does in the east part.
After going north of St. Raphael and west of Rejus it could continue in the mountains until it reaches Saint Maxime and it could end in Grimaud and meet the D98 (and perhaps continue as a motorway all the way to Toulon and Marseille, thus having two motorways between the Cote and Marsielle; one inland for trucks and long-haul transportation and one along the sea for tourists and residents).

Surely this must have been discussed at some point?

Sincerely
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Old August 7th, 2013, 02:13 PM   #2487
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Quote:
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I don't think they will ever remove the tolls. Maintenance costs and the amount of staff employed are exceptionally high. All motorways on both ends are tolled as well, and all you need is a Belgium lorry and a number of deaths (which happened years ago) to throw lots of money into repair works...
Before the fire in Mont Blanc, it was very profitable for the French state - I seem to recall numbers of around 5 million Euro profit a year - which may partially explain why the status quo was allowed to exist before the fire.

But they will never remove the tolls there, or even lower them. The tolls there (and at Frejus) exist to suppress demand, and most residents there would be happy if the truck tolls were doubled or even tripled.

What's interesting to me is the infrastructure that exists around those tunnels compared to the infrastructure in Austria.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 02:52 PM   #2488
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But they will never remove the tolls there, or even lower them. The tolls there (and at Frejus) exist to suppress demand, and most residents there would be happy if the truck tolls were doubled or even tripled.
If they didn't want trucks, they shouldn't have built those tunnels in the first place. Building such an expensive infrastructure and using below its capabilities is nonsense and stupid, to me.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #2489
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does somebody have the history of toll amounts at Frejus and Mt Blanc? were they always so expensive?
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Old August 8th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #2490
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Hmm, is this forum only about the existence of tolls?
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #2491
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Vive la France ! :-)
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:30 PM   #2492
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Hmm, is this forum only about the existence of tolls?
Maybe an other subject if you don't like this one ...?
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #2493
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does somebody have the history of toll amounts at Frejus and Mt Blanc? were they always so expensive?
They are always expensive. First because a tunnel is of course very expensive to build.Second, to win money when users don't have any other alternative.
Except if you want to climb the Alps even in winter.
We are not in a communist country . You want ? You pay !
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:41 PM   #2494
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You'll pay about $30.00 to drive the Pennsylvania Turnpike from end to end; 360 miles (a bit over 500 km) including about four mountain tunnels. And we're not a Communist country either. :-P (Of course, the Appalachians aren't the Alps....)
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:44 PM   #2495
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The Fréjus Tunnel also happens to be almost 4 times longer than the Eisenhower Tunnel.

I think the tolls are so high to harmonize it with alternate routes and to cope with the low AADT of only 4 500 vehicles per day.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #2496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Cote d'Azur question

Hello french people!
After visiting the Cote d'Azur I have a question for you;
Why dosen't the La Provencale Highway follow the coast all the way to Saint Maxime/Tropez?
From Monaco to Cannes it follows the coast perfect up in the mountains, allowing one to pretty quickly go from one town to another, but after that you have either the slow coastal way or you have to go very far inland and take a small road through the forest to get to St. Maxime.

I get that back in the days the western part of the Cote d'Azur wasn't that heavily populated, but nowadays there surely has to be enough people to qualify for a highway?
It should start west of the Cannes Airport and go in the mountains at aproximately the same height as it does in the east part.
After going north of St. Raphael and west of Rejus it could continue in the mountains until it reaches Saint Maxime and it could end in Grimaud and meet the D98 (and perhaps continue as a motorway all the way to Toulon and Marseille, thus having two motorways between the Cote and Marsielle; one inland for trucks and long-haul transportation and one along the sea for tourists and residents).

Surely this must have been discussed at some point?

Sincerely
I'm absolutely not a specialist of highways historic but they don't want of an other highway to the south between Toulon and St Raphael.
Because of magnificent mountains, an other destruction of the landscape, very expensive land, to restrict number of vehicles,....
Maybe other reasons , only local politicians can give you a better reply.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #2497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fane40 View Post
They are always expensive. First because a tunnel is of course very expensive to build.Second, to win money when users don't have any other alternative.
Except if you want to climb the Alps even in winter.
We are not in a communist country . You want ? You pay !
Twin bore Gran Sasso tunnel isn't tolled (apart from normal motorway toll); Gotthard tunnel isn't tolled (apart from normal vignette). Italy and Switzerland are not communist, either.

Tunnels are supposed to join. A 40€ tunnel just divides: these tunnels are expensive pieces of engineering but basically they don't solve the problem they were created for.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:48 PM   #2498
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(Response re the length of the Fréjus tunnel: ) Well, there you are then. (Although there's no toll at all on the Eisenhower, is there?)

But even flat French (and Spanish, and Italian...) autoroutes are far more expensive than American toll roads, while while their neighbors to the north have no tolls.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #2499
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Quote:
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But even flat French (and Spanish, and Italian...) autoroutes are far more expensive than American toll roads, while while their neighbors to the north have no tolls.
If you compare older toll roads like the Pennsylvania Turnpike, Indiana Toll Road or the turnpikes in Oklahoma, then yes, American toll roads are much cheaper than French toll roads. However if you compare it with more recently constructed toll roads in say Dallas or Florida, then tolls are more similar. The NTTA levies a toll of $ 0.16 per mile, which is closer to the rate of the toll roads in Southern Europe. Not to mention express lanes with dynamic pricing, which can go up to $ 1 per mile.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:54 PM   #2500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Fréjus Tunnel also happens to be almost 4 times longer than the Eisenhower Tunnel.

I think the tolls are so high to harmonize it with alternate routes and to cope with the low AADT of only 4 500 vehicles per day.

Of course ,you're right.
A high price to avoid too much vehicles and problems with accidents (and to lose money), but enough acceptable to offer a good solution.
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