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Old July 29th, 2015, 05:34 AM   #3201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
The driver of that bus was either stupid or a psychopath -you can see clearly that the tunnel is very low for a bus, plus there are signs with the maximum allowed height. Getting in trouble with a caravan or a low van is somewhat easy to understand, but that is just absurd.
Why assume malevolence?

The news report says quite clearly most of the passengers were asleep. This suggests it was dark, and since this was a chartered bus and the driver didn't really know the route, he probably didn't see the clearance sign till it was too late (if at all).

TBH what really stuck out was that he was supposedly using a GPS. But then GPS systems for the trucking industry (had better!) have clearance restrictions on them, so that they can plot the best routes for (for example) overheight trucks.

It sounds to me like this was caused by night + driver unfamiliarity + charter company refusing to get a commercial GPS. No need to pass moral judgments on the driver.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 05:39 AM   #3202
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Driving through Languedoc-Roussillon (France) from Sète to Montpellier 12.06.2015 Timelapse x4

Through A9

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Old July 29th, 2015, 11:29 AM   #3203
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This bus accident happened on Avenue de la République in northern Lille, which is a major urban route, but does not carry through traffic. It is not a route a bus from Spain to Amsterdam would typically take (there are 3 freeway options around Lille).

I'm guessing the bus driver missed his turn on N356 and took the next available route, which is Avenue de la République. It is a somewhat peculiar road, it has a number of low underpasses which allow free-flow travel across this urban arterial, but is not suited for trucks and buses.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 03:28 PM   #3204
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Now it can be used as a sightseeing Bus
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Old July 29th, 2015, 05:49 PM   #3205
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its not a joke , a friend of mine is still in hospital
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Old July 29th, 2015, 06:44 PM   #3206
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may be with a sign like this one , it would not have happened

Last edited by VITORIA MAN; July 29th, 2015 at 07:29 PM.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 07:08 PM   #3207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Why assume malevolence?

The news report says quite clearly most of the passengers were asleep. This suggests it was dark, and since this was a chartered bus and the driver didn't really know the route, he probably didn't see the clearance sign till it was too late (if at all).

TBH what really stuck out was that he was supposedly using a GPS. But then GPS systems for the trucking industry (had better!) have clearance restrictions on them, so that they can plot the best routes for (for example) overheight trucks.

It sounds to me like this was caused by night + driver unfamiliarity + charter company refusing to get a commercial GPS. No need to pass moral judgments on the driver.
C'mon, signage is very clear there, plus you just see that the tunnel is too low for a bus. There was a huge height difference (>1m). There's no excuse for this. The driver was a moron, period.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 08:09 PM   #3208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
C'mon, signage is very clear there, plus you just see that the tunnel is too low for a bus. There was a huge height difference (>1m). There's no excuse for this. The driver was a moron, period.
A similar (and ultimately fatal) accident happened with a Megabus in Syracuse, NY a few years back. Similar conditions, too: it was late at night when most of the passengers were sleeping, the driver had veered off the through route and had gotten lost, GPS didn't pick up the clearance limitation ...

(Incidentally that particular route has been rerouted to avoid Syracuse entirely. It now goes through the Southern Tier.)

It's easy to see in the light of day. It's easy to see when you're familiar with the route. Not so much at night. Not so much when you're lost and just trying to find your way back.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 08:27 PM   #3209
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Truck GPSs are not as useful for buses. Buses are allowed on a lot of roads where trucks are banned. The only thing they have in common are height limitations.

A typical coach is between 3.5 and 4.0 meters high. This tunnel had a 2.6 m clearance, so it's not your common 'scraping the roof' accident.

The height limitation is already posted before you turn onto this particular road. It has a 3.5 ton weight limit and 2.5 m height limit. The bus driver has driven under two gantries indicating the 3.5 ton and 2.5 m height limit, two signs when entering the tunnel section, a height indicator, and also ignored the fourth warning at the tunnel itself.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 10:48 PM   #3210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
TBH what really stuck out was that he was supposedly using a GPS. But then GPS systems for the trucking industry (had better!) have clearance restrictions on them, so that they can plot the best routes for (for example) overheight trucks.

It sounds to me like this was caused by night + driver unfamiliarity + charter company refusing to get a commercial GPS. No need to pass moral judgments on the driver.
Acording spanish newspapers bus had 2 GPS one of them for buses or trucks.
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The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts. Gene Spafford.
I am Basque, not Russian, the "Siberia" thing is a joke.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 10:49 PM   #3211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VITORIA MAN View Post

may be with a sign like this one , it would not have happened
The tunnel had one, but it was broken few weeks ago and still broken.
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Si quieres compatibilidad con estandares y seguridad, ¿pq recomiendas Firefox y no Opera?
If you want compatibility with standards and security, ¿why do you recomend firefox and not Opera?

The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts. Gene Spafford.
I am Basque, not Russian, the "Siberia" thing is a joke.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 11:22 AM   #3212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VITORIA MAN View Post
its not a joke , a friend of mine is still in hospital
I'm sorry for that. I guess there were nobody seriously injured.

How could the driver pass the height indicator before entering the tunmel???

Edit: Now I saw it, it was broken...
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Old July 30th, 2015, 12:11 PM   #3213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This bus accident happened on Avenue de la République in northern Lille, which is a major urban route, but does not carry through traffic. It is not a route a bus from Spain to Amsterdam would typically take (there are 3 freeway options around Lille).

I'm guessing the bus driver missed his turn on N356 and took the next available route, which is Avenue de la République. It is a somewhat peculiar road, it has a number of low underpasses which allow free-flow travel across this urban arterial, but is not suited for trucks and buses.
So this is the exit the bus driver missed.
https://www.google.be/maps/@50.62907...7i13312!8i6656
The 3 trough lanes making it look like it's the main direction, altough it's clearly signed that you have to keep right to follow the motorway.
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Old August 1st, 2015, 01:16 PM   #3214
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The motorway layout around Lille (or Rijsel for us Flemings) is quite a mess. It's relatively easy to get lost there. Certainly for coaches.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 11:33 PM   #3215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickman View Post
Well, I guess via Orthez, Mont-de-Marsan and then via D834 towards Bordeaux would be an interesting alternative. You will join the A63 after the tollboth, so the rest of the A63 till Bordeaux is without toll.
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Yes, the road to the Somport tunnel ,Oloron, Orthez ,Mont-de Marsan is good and quiet.
But Orthez is annoying to go through. And some stretches before and after the town are difficult behind a truck.
An other road: Oloron, follow D936 to Sauveterre de béarn, D933 and D 430 to Puyoo, Dax (new bypass since this year) D947 to Castets and take the A63 to Bordeaux (one toll )
I know some other roads and shortcuts but difficult to explain and only to win 10 minutes.
For example: puerto del Portalet , Pau and two solutions:
1: the old national road parallel at the A65 to the east of Bordeaux, or go to Mont de Marsan after Aire sur l'adour (toll free to bypass the city by the A65) to go west of Bordeaux.
Thanks to both! Indeed, we went via Orthez, with almost no traffic (It was Sunday anyway). However, today we returned via the Basque Country, we were planning to spend the night there but weather wasn't good. Never again D810 in that area, next time we should pay the A63 toll.
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Old August 8th, 2015, 03:45 PM   #3216
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BTW, I realized Chris and I clinched the Landes autoroute (A63) with a two month difference. He did it northbound, I went southbound. The 7€ toll was worth it, there are nothing but pine trees in the way, so you may want to cross the forest as quickly as possible.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 01:33 AM   #3217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Why assume malevolence?

The news report says quite clearly most of the passengers were asleep. This suggests it was dark, and since this was a chartered bus and the driver didn't really know the route, he probably didn't see the clearance sign till it was too late (if at all).

TBH what really stuck out was that he was supposedly using a GPS. But then GPS systems for the trucking industry (had better!) have clearance restrictions on them, so that they can plot the best routes for (for example) overheight trucks.

It sounds to me like this was caused by night + driver unfamiliarity + charter company refusing to get a commercial GPS. No need to pass moral judgments on the driver.
It seems wrong to have such low overpasses except in an extreme situation.

There is some work going on the Burlington Bay Skyway in Ontario, Canada presently that reduces the normal height in one direction. -> https://www.google.pl/maps/@43.28346...7i13312!8i6656

They put all kinds of signs and automatic-detection signs that see overheight vehicles and start flashing like crazy. There's like 100 of them, no way even any drunk and high idiot at 2 AM will manage to ignore. Guess they learned from experience last year
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Old August 15th, 2015, 04:38 PM   #3218
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Quote:
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BTW, I realized Chris and I clinched the Landes autoroute (A63) with a two month difference. He did it northbound, I went southbound. The 7€ toll was worth it, there are nothing but pine trees in the way, so you may want to cross the forest as quickly as possible.
There is a funny easy way to avoid both toll plazas between Bordeaux and St-Geourgs de Maremme.
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Old August 15th, 2015, 10:13 PM   #3219
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Just crossed the French highway system from Bayonne to Valenciennes into Belgium and I have some remarks.

-more reflectors are needed like Spain uses
-péages every 15km where you pay 2.30 euros are ridiculous
-the ring of Paris is in a shameful state, vraiment honteux
-maintenance on free highways (ring of every city, nationale N10, highway from Valenciennes to Belgium) is almost non existant.
-parkings on free highway parts are the most dirty and broken ones I have seen in my life

I was really shocked by the state of the highway around Paris, potholes everywhere and lines are almost invisible. Very very poor state of the road on some parts.
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Old August 15th, 2015, 11:36 PM   #3220
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Reconstruction of Quai d'Ivry interchange on Paris Peripherique

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