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Old December 3rd, 2017, 11:19 AM   #3781
ChrisZwolle
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D383 Périphérique de Lyon

There is a level crossing on the 10 lane D383 on the south side of Lyon.

This is how they stop traffic:

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Old December 5th, 2017, 08:54 PM   #3782
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Old December 10th, 2017, 09:52 AM   #3783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The N12 / D222 interchange at Saint-Brieuc opened to traffic on 27 November.

D222 is the new southern bypass of Saint-Brieuc.
It was already opened last January!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A 1.8 kilometer segment of D222 around Saint-Brieuc opened to traffic last Monday (30 January). It runs from La Croix Gibat to Yffiniac, excluding the N12 interchange. It is a 2x2 voie express.

http://www.saint-brieuc.maville.com/...26114_actu.Htm
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Old December 10th, 2017, 10:04 AM   #3784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang16 View Post
I posted this more than 2 years ago. Now works seem to start:

http://www.charentelibre.fr/2017/11/...ie,3167166.php

and should be finished in 2020 as far as I understand
If I got it right, works have been suspended and will resume in early 2018. 2x2 opening will be in 2019. "Recovery routes" till early 2020.
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Old December 10th, 2017, 10:28 AM   #3785
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
N164: east of Saint-Meen-le-Grand – Montauban-de-Bretagne (N12) 5.4km (January 2014 to 2017) – projectmap
This section was reported to be (fully) opened by Mid December 2017.

http://www.dir.ouest.developpement-d...rn12-rn164.pdf

http://www.letelegramme.fr/bretagne/...7-11671441.php
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Old December 10th, 2017, 11:06 AM   #3786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
It was already opened last January!
No it didn't, read the quote

Quote:
It runs from La Croix Gibat to Yffiniac, excluding the N12 interchange.
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Old December 16th, 2017, 02:48 AM   #3787
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Google Street View Update 2017:
- various sections of D177
- A507: Frais Vallon – Marseille-East (A50) 5.2km (1993 to 29th November 2016)
- D173: Retiers-South – La Noe Jollys 6.8km (? to 31st January 2017)
- A9: Saint-Jean-de-Vedas – Saint Aunes ~12km (October 2014 to 31st May 2017)
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Old December 17th, 2017, 12:58 PM   #3788
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A nationwide 80 km/h speed limit on undivided, non-motorway roads is one step closer to reality

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/...i_2510393.html

To me, it looks like they want to force traffic into the motorways, even when there is an adequate road next to them. 80 km/h makes absolutely no sense in France's huge network of high-standard roads with long straights, flat surfaces and wide lanes. Even this would get an 80 km/h speed limit .

One of my bucket-list road trips was driving to Paris on former N20 road (now downgraded to route départementale status). However, with this stupid rule such a roadtrip would be a nightmare -even with cruise control.
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Old December 17th, 2017, 01:02 PM   #3789
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Undivided 4 lane roads are dangerous, maybe this law will drive authorities to build concrete barriers in those medians.
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Old December 17th, 2017, 10:19 PM   #3790
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Bris:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisavoine
Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
A nationwide 80 km/h speed limit on undivided, non-motorway roads is one step closer to reality

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/...i_2510393.html

To me, it looks like they want to force traffic into the motorways, even when there is an adequate road next to them. 80 km/h makes absolutely no sense in France's huge network of high-standard roads with long straights, flat surfaces and wide lanes.
I don't think you are understanding the logic behind this (and other) measure(s). It's not an issue of forcing traffic into the motorways.

What's happening in France (since about 20 years ago), is we have a 'road security' lobby gone mad, a bit like the prohibitionist lobby in the US between the 2 world wars.

These people are extremists who hate cars and would probably stop all road traffic if they could get their way. It's a mixture of people opposed to cars for environmental reasons, also for social reasons (cars favor an individualistic liberal society, which irks the Marxist collectivist mentality that is still very strong among various lobbyists and political groups in France unfortunately), and then there are also people who lost relatives in car accidents and who are engaged in that crusade against cars as a way to grieve their dead ones. These people should rather seek help from a psychologist, but instead of doing that they are engaged in that crusade which complicates the lives of 90% of the French people.

Among these nutters (but very good lobbyists), you have that dreadful lady for example, Chantal Perrichon, the president of the so-called "League against Road Violence".



This lady, a former 1968 feminist, is among the most extremist in the road security lobby ("anti-car lobby" would be a more appropriate term).

Needless to say, she's hated by many people.

"Me too I'm dreaming of crashing Chantal Perrichon"



"Tidy your room before bugging us !!!"



This woman reminds me a lot the female leaders of the Woman's Christian Temperance Union in the USA which was one of the biggest lobbying group pushing for the prohibition of alcohol:



This woman is of course far from alone, there are several other "advocates" of road security who are always given generous treatment in the media. I would say car driving in France is a bit like sex in the US: you do it, but because of Judeo-Christian puritanism you feel guilty about it, so you support those who advocate against its "excesses" as a way to reprieve your own personal sins. It's just unbelievable how these lobbyists are almost never challenged in the media.

According to them, the main problem with road security in France is speed. Alcohol, narcotics, using cell phones while driving, etc, are not their priority. Since about 20 years ago, their main target has been speed (which is easier to control than other causes of road accidents). The number of road fatalities in France has declined a lot in the past 40 years, as in the rest of the Western world, and they claim that it's only because we are more severe in implementing speed limits. The improvement of cars (better built, airbags, seat belts, etc) is not something that they consider as an explanation for the decreasing number of fatalities, and the media never ever challenge them on this.

Their comparisons are also always flawed. For example comparing the number of deaths per 1 million people in a flat and mostly urban country like Belgium with a mountainous, rural country like France, and concluding that because the number is higher in France, then we must do more, MORE, always MOOOOORE for road security (read: more speed radars, lower speed limits).

The politicians are guilty too. In France (dunno if it's the same in your countries guys), the number of deaths on the roads is now published every month, and read on the main radios and TV stations (every month, the two figures always read out loud on radios and TV stations are the number of unemployed people and the number of road fatalities, it has become almost an obsession). Whenever the number of road fatalities rises a bit in one given month, the politicians suddenly feel lots of pressure, all those crazy lobbyists go on all radios and TV stations to explain how we don't do enough for road security,etc. By the way, did you know that since 2 years ago we now have mobile speed radars embarked in private vehicles manned by private companies to which policing of speed limits was transferred, and there's no way to identify these vehicles, so that even if you know all the positions of the fixed speed radars and pay attention to all police and gendarmerie cars, you can still get tickets and lose your driving license because of those awful new private cars with no identifying signs. This private fleet of vehicles hounding car drivers is of course a result of the very efficient campaign of these crazy lobbyists. Recently I got a ticket on a motorway just north of Toulouse where the speed limit was stupidly 110 km/h and I was driving at 117 km/h !! (the reason why it was stupidly 110 km/h is because although it is a motorway resembling just any other motorway, it used to be anciently a national non-motorway road which was turned into a motorway, and despite the fact that it now has the same standards as a real motorway, the speed limit is set at 110 km/h, which makes no sense, but that's what what they do on all the motorways which were anciently national roads; of course the private company hounding the car drivers in that area on purpose drove on that motorway, because they know that's were they are most likely to find car drivers in excess of the speed limit!).

The politicians feel under pressure whenever the number of fatalities goes up in any given month, and they don't want to be accused of having contributed to the death of people, so they are always eager to agree with the road security lobbyists and toughen the rules (again very similar with the US and how their politicians always toughen rules on drug use, leading to the highest rate of incarceration in the world). So far there hasn't been a single prominent French politician who has had the guts to resist those lobbies, even though they (the politicians) probably suffer personally from these toughened rules same as the rest of the population. Also, the number of road deaths is minuscule compared to the number of deaths from tobacco but for some bizarre reason the politicians do more to decrease the already small number of road fatalities than to decrease the enormously large number of deaths due to smoking.

To make things even worse, we have an implacable mechanism set in the law (these lobbyists are very clever) whereby the government and the "National Council on Road Security" must meet several times a year at fixed dates and decide new measures. Ministers are afraid to leave one of these meetings without new toughened measures, for fear of being called weak and criminal by the road security lobby (last year, or two years ago, can't remember, the minister of the interior refused to toughen the rules after one such meeting, and all the lobbyists went on all radios and TV channels to denounce the minister, as if he had committed a crime).

For example, here you have Chantal Perrichon interviewed on the most listened to French radio station, RTL, and denouncing the right-wing ministers not doing enough for road security and being responsible for the "catastrophic climb in the number of accidents".



So there's no reason why this movement shouldn't stop really. I've always wondered what levels of extremity it can reach. Supposing every 6 months we have tougher and tougher rules, where does it get us 20 years from now? At what point it is not possible to pass tougher rules anymore? Only banning car driving entirely would end this reckless pursuit of "road security".

The 80 km/h rule was one that the lobbyists have pushed for more and more vocally. Last year the government refused to implement it because of the upcoming elections, and the lobbyists went wild about it, denouncing the weakness of the government. One could have hopped that with Macron we would have had a stronger government, but no. The lobbyists have triumphed once again, and the prime minister went on national television saying he "personally" thought the 80 km/h rule was a good thing. Associations of motorists have pointed out that if lower speed spares lives, then why not decrease it even further, like 50 km/h everywhere on all roads. Of course the lobbyists never respond to such criticism, and the media don't challenge them. The politicians also don't respond to such criticism.

Their next target are motorways: 120 km/h they want on motorways. Expect that to happen within 2 to 3 years.

Then why not 70 km/h on non-motorway roads? They will probably propose that sooner or later. And also 110 km/h on all motorways probably. It's hard to see where this extremist drive can end. As a citizen of France I can't see it ending anytime soon, because all the reasons that I've explained are still playing out. Only a major rebellion of the population could end it, but it doesn't seem to be in sight for now (the French like to complain, but they rarely act).

One consequence of this is there is now an amazingly high number of French people who have lost their driving licenses (only 6 speeding tickets and you lose your driving license, which can happen very quickly now with these new fleets of private unidentified vehicles embarking speed radars). Since France has very mediocre public transportation (and the size and mostly rural character of the country prevents public transportation in most areas anyway), people are forced to drive even with their driving license lost, otherwise they would also lose their job. As a result, it is now estimated between 0.7 and 2.5 million French motorists drive without a valid driving license, which means also without a car insurance. Thus, the French roads have become more dangerous than in the past, because there's always a risk you can have an accident with someone who is not insured, much much more than was the case before.

That's French "road security" for you!

PS: Oh, the road security looby also want to check your average driving speed with electronic boxes embarked on every vehicle, plus checking your motorway toll ticket when you enter and leave the motorway to calculate your average speed. We'll probably get there sooner or later.
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Old December 17th, 2017, 11:00 PM   #3791
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On most of the routes departementales, an 80 km/h limit wouldn't make much difference. Many are either too narrow, too curvy or have an uneven surface.

However on the current and former routes nationales, 80 km/h would be too low, these roads were designed for 90 km/h, they are typically wider, straighter and have a more optimal alignment. In addition, the maintenance level is generally better than your average route departementale. No doubt an 80 km/h limit will be heavily enforced by speed cameras, the vast majority of rural speed cameras are already on current and former RNs.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #3792
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In southeastern France roads are indeed either crowded or narrow and winding, or both. However, in the rest of the country (which means the majority of the road network) roads are straight, wide and adequate for 90-100 km/h. You indeed see many drivers going faster than that. No wonder speeding tickets are so common. And before France went mad with speed cameras in 2003, driving speeds were insane.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #3793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesto Elemento View Post
Bris:
A very long post for a very trivial idea: they're doing this because they're evil (mwawawawawa!!)

Things are always much more complicated and articulated than that.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 03:07 PM   #3794
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Yes, and I think this measure is also a big favour to the concessionaires of the motorways parallel to many of these roads, the owners of which are close friends/relatives with members of the French government.

The 80 km/h speed limit was tested in some roads in 2015-2017, with no reduction in traffic fatalities.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 04:18 PM   #3795
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Quote:
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The 80 km/h speed limit was tested in some roads in 2015-2017, with no reduction in traffic fatalities.
Was it enforced? I mean, they can lower the limit but if everyone is still going at the previous limit because they are not afraid of being fined, I can understand that there was no reduction in fatalities.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 04:38 PM   #3796
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Was it enforced? I mean, they can lower the limit but if everyone is still going at the previous limit because they are not afraid of being fined, I can understand that there was no reduction in fatalities.
Every speed limit in France is heavily enforced, and a big majority of the French drivers respect them. I've driven in many European countries and France is by far the one where I've seen the most speed cameras and/or traps.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 05:09 PM   #3797
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N57 has 12 speed cameras between Nancy and Besançon.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 09:20 PM   #3798
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N164 Bretagne

The second carriageway of N164 between the N12 interchange and Saint-Méen-le-Grand opened to traffic today. The first carriageway opened on 6 October 2017. This upgrade of N164 was built mostly on a new alignment. It is 5.6 km long.



https://www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne...uguree-5465577
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Old December 24th, 2017, 01:34 PM   #3799
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France has lots of speed traps, but they would be better adopting more section control instead of fixed radars in certain areas. Generally, I think section control is much more effective and fair as speed enforcement unless there is a specific local reduction on speed due to a tight curve or something like that.
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Old December 24th, 2017, 05:58 PM   #3800
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A63

The A63 expansion between Biarritz and Biriatou (Spanish border) looks pretty much completed. It is officially planned to be completed by 'late 2017'.

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