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Old June 25th, 2007, 11:16 PM   #21
Minato ku
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Lyon freeway system

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Old June 25th, 2007, 11:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku View Post
And one of the worst connected too, if you asked me. Not enough lanes, for a city of 10 million i wouldn't say it's that big. Hope the A86 will be completed soon.

I drove through Paris a couple of times and always get stuck in a traffic jam on the A4/A86 section. I thought this was the busiest stretch in France.

However i used the A28 last time, avoiding Paris. The section Rouen - Tours is extremely quiet.
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Old June 25th, 2007, 11:28 PM   #23
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I agree and look at this map a traffic jam and really heavy traffic at 10 pm.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 01:09 AM   #24
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I assume also completion of A104 is urgently needed.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 03:48 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CborG View Post
A bigger map of the network:
Not all those roads marked blue are expressways... far from it. Most of those who aren't A-xx freeways are just regular roads(except in Bretagne).


Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku View Post


It is one of biggest in Europe.
And certainly one of the worst, for a city of it's size.



Well, that said, I must say that for me, French tolled motorways are still the best in Europe. Allways in excelent conditions!
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Old June 26th, 2007, 04:23 AM   #26
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good map of France but uncomplete...

there's N137 between Rennes and St-malo opened in the beinning 90's, that isn't represented...

I've repaired this mistake

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Old June 26th, 2007, 08:31 AM   #27
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Ugh, French autoroute signs are a disaster...
Almost as much as America's.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 09:23 AM   #28
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Actually, I think that American guide signs are even better than the French ones. Using different colours and putting enough information on the guide signs is supposed to be helpful, but seems like the French traffic engineers just went over the head with this. Also, for some unknown reason they put "drive straight" and "No left turn" signs on the motorway and entrance ramps. Come on, no one would dare to drive against the traffic on the motorway and no one would even think of attempting a 90° left turn from the on-ramp
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Old June 26th, 2007, 10:01 AM   #29
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It can be worse

Motorway interchange


But the worst is really in Paris metro

Welcome in the second beltway of Paris A86

A4 and A86 common section, when two busy motorways are in the same section, it is the worst traffic jam in Europe, and over 300,000 car per day.

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Old June 26th, 2007, 01:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Actually, I think that American guide signs are even better than the French ones. Using different colours and putting enough information on the guide signs is supposed to be helpful, but seems like the French traffic engineers just went over the head with this.
Actually it is really simple : blue = motorways/autoroutes ; green = expressways/nationales ; white = local roads.

When you're driving you immediatly know which sign you have to focus on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Also, for some unknown reason they put "drive straight" and "No left turn" signs on the motorway and entrance ramps. Come on, no one would dare to drive against the traffic on the motorway and no one would even think of attempting a 90° left turn from the on-ramp
According to the number of car accidents you can read here and there, involving car drivers making a U-Turn or going reverse, then going on the entrance ramp wrong side, it's not obvious for everybody...
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Old June 26th, 2007, 01:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
Not all those roads marked blue are expressways... far from it. Most of those who aren't A-xx freeways are just regular roads(except in Bretagne).
You really are exaggerating: the vast majority of the roads marked with the letter 'N' on this map (the Nationales, also marked in blue on the map) are actually expressways/dual carriageways (2x2 lanes at least) with only a few sections not yet complete that remain normal roads.

The difference between blue vs green roads on this map is free vs tolled roads.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 02:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
green = expressways/nationales
That's not entirely true. As far as i know, green signs point to the nearest cities of importance, which don't have to go via Route Nationales per se.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #33
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^ no, this is right, green = nationales, this is what we learn to have the right to drive
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Old June 26th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #34
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^ Yeah but they are renumbering a whole lot of RN's to Route Départementales. That would make the green signs useless if they are only allowed to sign RN destinations.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 05:16 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanico View Post
You really are exaggerating: the vast majority of the roads marked with the letter 'N' on this map (the Nationales, also marked in blue on the map) are actually expressways/dual carriageways (2x2 lanes at least) with only a few sections not yet complete that remain normal roads.

The difference between blue vs green roads on this map is free vs tolled roads.


Really?... Well... let's start for example in the southwesternmost corner of France:
-The road from Pau to the spanish border is just a crappy road... certainly not an expressways.
-The road from Tarbes to Auch and Agen is just a regular road, not expressway
-The road from Bordeux to Auch and Toulouse is just a regular road, not expressway, with some short 2x2 sections.
-The road from Foix to Perpignan is just a regular road, not expressway, with some short 2x2 sections. Only the stretch near Perpignan is an expressway


... And I could go on and on...
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Old June 26th, 2007, 05:21 PM   #36
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As for the signage on french autoroutes, it may not be the best in the world, but it certainly isn't the worst, and it's MUCH better than american signage, from what I see in the photo's of american freeways.

A good signage is alot more than just putting all the signs in the same signs (which is the main critic of the frenchs system in here).


This is the opinion of someone who has driven many thousands of km's on French autoroutes and never had problems with the signage.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 05:25 PM   #37
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answer
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanico View Post
You really are exaggerating: the vast majority of the roads marked with the letter 'N' on this map (the Nationales, also marked in blue on the map) are actually expressways/dual carriageways (2x2 lanes at least) with only a few sections not yet complete that remain normal roads.
He didn't say all, he said the vast majority.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 05:27 PM   #38
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Signage in France is okay. I drove thousands of km's too, but only near cities, they sign too much destinations.

However the system is clear, but not very esthetic like Germany or The Netherlands.
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Old June 26th, 2007, 08:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
A good signage is alot more than just putting all the signs in the same signs (which is the main critic of the frenchs system in here).
The main problem abou French signage is that there are too many informations.
"Too much information kill information".
I think that US system (the number of motorway and the cardinal direction) is enough: if you are in Auxerre, you should take "A6-Nord" to drive to Paris and "A6-Sud" to go to Lyon).

Quote:
Originally Posted by steph35 View Post
^ no, this is right, green = nationales, this is what we learn to have the right to drive
Wrong: Green sign = major cities that are written in green box on Michelin's maps.
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Old June 28th, 2007, 11:57 PM   #40
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Do you know the The fourth beltway of Paris.

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