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Old July 27th, 2007, 07:57 PM   #101
ChrisZwolle
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The most black saturday is tomorrow. Expect hundreds of kilometers of traffic jams, on all routes to the south.

Especially the A6 from Paris to Lyon, the A7 Lyon to Orange, the A8 Aix-en-Pce to Nice, the A9 Orange to Perpignan, the A10 from Paris to Bordeaux, the A40 from Mâcon to Chamonix, the A41, A42, A43, A48 in the Alps, the A46 ringroad of Lyon, A61 from Toulouse to Narbonne, the A62 from Bordeaux to Toulouse, the A64 from Toulouse to Tarbes, the A71 for Clermont-Ferrand, A72 near St.Étienne, A75 near Béziers etc.

Traffic jams will start before sunrise and last till sunset.

Traffic will be bad in Spain, Germany, Switzerland and Austria too. Expect at least 2 - 4 hours waiting time before you can enter several tunnels in the Alps.

So, you'd better don't hit the road at all tomorrow.
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Old July 28th, 2007, 12:19 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
They are going to do that soon (there's already a project but I think the works haven't started yet.
The AP-7 will become 2x3 all the way from Tarragona till the border, with 2x4 in the Girona bypass (which will be free of charge).

I hope the french also widen the A-9 from Perpignan to the border! And the removal of the border station would be great too.
Isn't 2x4 a bit exaggerated for Girona bypass?

If they widen the A-9 from Perpignan to the border and the AP-7 till Tarragona you would have 2x3 from Lyon until Tarragona, right?
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Old July 28th, 2007, 12:28 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
The AP-7 will become 2x3 all the way from Tarragona till the border, with 2x4 in the Girona bypass (which will be free of charge).
khm, more toll boots there... i don't like that idea. (bte i like extending it to 2x3 and 2x4)
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Old July 28th, 2007, 10:12 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpioe View Post
Isn't 2x4 a bit exaggerated for Girona bypass?
Well, remember it will accumulate the trafic of AP-7 plus the traffic of N-II(A-2), and will be free of charge. So it seems like a good idea to be wider than the rest of the AP-7 to me.


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If they widen the A-9 from Perpignan to the border and the AP-7 till Tarragona you would have 2x3 from Lyon until Tarragona, right?
Well, no, because the A-9 stretch from the A-8 untill Nimes is just 2x2 at the moment. But maybe they willl widen it to 2x3 by the time all of this is done...
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Old July 28th, 2007, 10:18 PM   #105
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Actually the 2x3 starts before Nimes, but I think there are still some 30km's or so that are 2x2.
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Old July 28th, 2007, 10:22 PM   #106
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A9 from Perpignan to the Spanish border is also only 2x2 lanes. And so it the A9 between Orange and Nîmes. But against this massive holiday traffic, even 2x5 lanes won't work, it all gets stuck at the toll gates.

Especially near Perpignan, first you have a toll station, then the road narrows to 2x2 lanes, then a climb (slow trucks) and finally on the border, still a 10km/h limit on the low pass. Old customs houses are still in place there too.

But the biggest problems are on the A7 between Vienne and Orange. It's always busy, and a lot of trucks there, not only north-south, but also a lot of traffic from Central Europe to Spain/Southern France takes that route.
However, there are plans to widen the A7 to 2x5 lanes all the way from Givors to Orange, or an alternative is to build a parallel motorway all the way from Vienne to Béziers on the A9. That is about 300km.
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Old July 28th, 2007, 11:22 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
A9 from Perpignan to the Spanish border is also only 2x2 lanes.
I know, but what he ask me was assuming that would be widened to 2x3 too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
But the biggest problems are on the A7 between Vienne and Orange. It's always busy, and a lot of trucks there, not only north-south, but also a lot of traffic from Central Europe to Spain/Southern France takes that route.
However, there are plans to widen the A7 to 2x5 lanes all the way from Givors to Orange, or an alternative is to build a parallel motorway all the way from Vienne to Béziers on the A9. That is about 300km.

That would be very cool. The first 2x5 in France, and probably one of the longest 2x5 stretches in the world.
As that motorway has the exits far apart, I think 5 lanes to each direction would be feasible and wouldn't create too much confusion, so I say: "Go on and build the damn thing!".
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Old July 28th, 2007, 11:27 PM   #108
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There are already some 5 lane stretches in France; on the A7 northward near Orange and on the A6 southbound near Beaune.

However they are marked as normal lanes, they could be considered merging lanes, since it is the exact amount of lanes coming together there (2 from A9, 3 from A7), which have to merge on the 3 lanes to Valence/Lyon.
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Old July 28th, 2007, 11:33 PM   #109
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And the A4 is also 2x5 but it is in Paris.
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Old July 28th, 2007, 11:38 PM   #110
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Arg! But that's urban, so I'm not considering it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
However they are marked as normal lanes, they could be considered merging lanes, since it is the exact amount of lanes coming together there (2 from A9, 3 from A7), which have to merge on the 3 lanes to Valence/Lyon.
Exactly, so that doesn't count.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 12:06 PM   #111
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Busy again

On the A7 164km of traffic jam between Condrieu and Bollène

On the A9 140km of traffic jam between Nîmes-Est and Narbonne-Est
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Old August 5th, 2007, 01:05 AM   #112
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So paris to has an orbital motorway just like our M25 motorway around london.I like paris never been but like it
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Old August 5th, 2007, 11:21 AM   #113
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Paris has actually 3 ringroads, but none of them are completely build or up to motorwaystandards, and none of them is as big as the M25 motorway. \

The first is the Boulevard Péripherique. It doesn't have a number, but in encircles the city proper of Paris. It is 35km long, and has a lot of exits, usually no further than 1 km apart.

The second ring is the A86, which isn't complete, and not all the way an Autoroute. It has a section missing between Versailles and Rueil-Malmaison. This ringroad is 73km long today.

The outter ringroad is the N104, an circular road which goes from Pontoise to Janvry, with a whole section missing on the westside of Paris. This road is not completely up to motorway standards, and only a section between the A1 and A4 on the eastside of Paris is signed as a real motorway. The N104/A104 is 117km long.

There aren't good alternatives to go wider around Paris. Because of the radial system around Paris, the next north-south route is the A26, which is 140km to the east at its closest.
The problem in Paris is, that through traffic takes the A3/A86/A4/A86 route or the A1/BP/A6 route, so it conflicts with local traffic.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 06:24 PM   #114
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Chris you previously showed you knew quite well the french road network, but I have to correct some things. First of all :
Quote:
Paris has actually 3 ringroads, but none of them are completely build or up to motorwaystandards
The 'Périphérique' is complete, as you mentioned it is a 35 km ring road, even if it has a particular status, but that's administrative lingo and surely doesn't take away anything to its freeway function.

By your presentation it sounds like A86 and 'Francilienne' (A104) were freeways on some parts, and on other parts not, while they are actually 100% freeways no matter if some sections are called 'N' (N186 and N104) instead of 'A', that's administrative lingo again.

Anyway the A86 loop is going to be complete by 2010, the last missing section is currently under construction - a 10 km tunnel. Total length will then be 87 km.

The 'Francilienne' should be extended to some more 25 km in the West (between A15 and A13), but that should be it, so it probably would never make a full ring, but instead a horseshoe-like road of 154 km.

The map (as of today):

in yellow, the 'Périphérique',
in red, A86 (dots show the section u/c),
in green, the 'Francilienne',
in blue, radial highways/freeways.

Last edited by juanico; August 5th, 2007 at 06:31 PM.
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Old August 23rd, 2007, 06:13 PM   #115
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I was stuck at the France/Spain border for 3 hours to pay 1€ each side of the border...
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Old August 23rd, 2007, 11:09 PM   #116
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I think the French motorway tolling system is set up in a very unfortunate way - for us, that is. You have to stop and pay every 60 km or so, on average (at least that's what I'm guessing), when coming from Genova and going to Spain. IMO it is a disaster compared to the quite efficient Italian fully-"closed" one.

In Italy, you can go all the way from any border to another with stopping to pay and/or get a ticket ONLY when passing near large cities (as those motorway sections service local traffic as well and are consequently toll-free).
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Old August 24th, 2007, 09:31 AM   #117
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That's not very true, if i drive to southern France, i get on the tollway near Toul, and i only have to pay tolls near Lyon. That's a few hundred kilometers.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 10:05 AM   #118
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that's because of ununited concessions i think. it's true that you have quite often toll stations while driving at A8: first one after exit 56 to Monte Carlo, then after exit to Nice Airport, 3rd near Antibes -> all are open styled. near Frejus you have one more, but it is close styled, so you tkat a ticket which lasts till Aix en Prov.
At Lançon you takt new one and you're paying very soon before Arles because there is end of motorway (and beginning od N113 expressway). After Arles ticket again and soon paying, after Nîmes. And then after Montpellier you takt a ticket that you can drive long route with - to Spanish border.
so, that's 11 stops -> quite much. fortunately, it's only in south France

Montpellier will get new bypass so those 2 toll stations will be bypassed, too
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Old August 24th, 2007, 05:30 PM   #119
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Quote:
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That's not very true, if i drive to southern France, i get on the tollway near Toul, and i only have to pay tolls near Lyon. That's a few hundred kilometers.
Thank God, I thought it was like this everywhere in France .
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Old August 24th, 2007, 06:03 PM   #120
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Quote:
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Thank God, I thought it was like this everywhere in France .
It is especially true in urban areas (on the Riviera for instance) but outside those, on the whole you can drive hundreds of km without being annoyed by recurrent barriers. The famous exception is motorway A13 in Normandy.
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