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Old October 24th, 2011, 11:49 PM   #1721
ptscout
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http://tinyurl.com/6jdtem8

A speedlimit is idiotic here - good if its ignored by politicians.
I think until +39 he wouldn't lost his permis.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #1722
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Autoroutes en Lorraine.







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Old October 26th, 2011, 12:51 AM   #1723
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very nice editing!
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 11:46 PM   #1724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
It shouldn't be a question anywhere. Unfortunately, it is a question nearly everywhere.
Sorry to intervene quite lately on this matter.

I agree with mcarling that politicians should be equal by the law everywhere. BUT ...

I'm not a fan of Jean-Paul Huchon, but the part where he was caught (on the A13 motorway I know quite well) is a part where there wouldn't be any speed limit by German standards.

Moreover, French cops tend to concentrate too much on drivers abiding by the law in places where speed limits are completely arbitrary & absurd. Each time I see them in this kind of places is when the weather is beautiful & you have a straight, 2x3 motorway with a large hard shoulder. Suddenly the rain comes & ... they disappear !
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"Richtgeschwindigkeit" should be the default system in all EU motorways & expressways & lane indiscipline should be harshly fought! Down with radars on motorways!
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Old November 6th, 2011, 01:07 AM   #1725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Open to the public, or for military use? How many French civilians owned cars in 1939 anyway?
To answer belatedly your questions, this short section of the current A13 was started in 1935, so it was almost completed when war started, they probably had to do little work to finish it. Also, at the time it wasn't meant as an autoroute, it was merely an expressway to aleviate traffic in the western suburbs. It was part of the Grand Paris project that had been devised in the 1930s.

As for car ownership, I remember a documentary from the 1930s which said that Paris alone had more cars than the entire Belgium. Of course by 1941 most of these cars had disappeared, because there was no more petroil (the Germans were pillaging France on a large scale), and only a few cars ran with gazogène (a weird system using coal or even wood combustion).

That's a typical car from during the war using the gazogène system:


And that's a map of the Grand Paris project (the Plan Prost) from the 1930s which shows the expressways that were planned in Greater Paris. The section that was opened in 1941 is the only bit of expressway that was actually built. Later this section was integrated in the A13 motorway to Normandy.

[img]http://i42.************/zl9h5g.jpg[/img]
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Old November 6th, 2011, 01:39 AM   #1726
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Larger view of the Plan Prost from 1934.

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Old November 6th, 2011, 01:58 AM   #1727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As a percentage probably not very much, likely similar to the United States at that time. However, Île-de-France already had 6.8 million people in 1936, which means traffic demand was probably high.
That's traffic in Central Paris around 1930.

image hosted on flickr


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Old November 6th, 2011, 05:06 AM   #1728
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How did people recognize their parked cars lol.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 12:55 PM   #1729
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Each car had the number plate, so they recognized them
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Old November 6th, 2011, 04:30 PM   #1730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
How did people recognize their parked cars lol.
For us living in the 21th century, all these the cars look the same but it was different for people living in the 1930's.
If someone from 1930 arrive in the world of today, maybe all our cars would look like the same for him.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 04:39 PM   #1731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
For us living in the 21th century, all these the cars look the same but it was different for people living in the 1930's.
If someone from 1930 arrive in the world of today, maybe all our cars would look like the same for him.
Wisdom.

I think two things have changed. Cars were more difficult to distinguish then because nearly all of them were black. Cars are more difficult to distinguish today because the shapes are constrained by aerodynamic requirements. I have no idea which effect is more significant.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 07:23 PM   #1732
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The toll free RN4 from Paris to Straßburg an Southern Germany











Wiki about that route and the tolled A4:
L'autoroute passe largement au nord de l'axe historique Paris-Strasbourg. Elle a longtemps été déficitaire3. Pour certains usagers qui empruntent l’A4 comme pour de nombreux élus du Sud lorrain, le choix du tracé nord Reims-Metz au lieu d’un tracé sud Reims-Nancy a été une erreur. Ils pouvaient escompter d'un tracé Sud qu'il désengorgeât la RN 4 et offrît une liaison autoroutière pour Nancy vers et depuis la capitale, dont le manque se ressent en Champagne-Ardenne. Dans cette optique, l’A4 aurait desservi l’agglomération nancéienne pour rejoindre l'itinéraire actuel au droit de Sarrebourg, et ainsi se prolonger jusqu’à Strasbourg — l'accès à l’Allemagne via Metz était déjà aisément réalisé par une autoroute.

L'A4 est payante tandis que la liaison Paris — Strasbourg par Nancy est efficace, plus courte et surtout non payante, cependant nettement plus dangereuse[réf. nécessaire], la route nationale 4, étant sous-dimensionnée, en particulier entre Jouy-le-Châtel et Vitry-le-François.

Pour beaucoup d’usagers qui empruntent l’A4, comme pour de nombreux élus du sud Lorrain, le choix d’un tracé Reims-Metz (donc Nord) au dépens d’un tracé Reims-Nancy (Sud) fut une erreur. En effet, le choix d’un tracé Sud aurait pu désengorger la RN4 et offrir une liaison Nancy à Paris par autoroute, dont le manque se fait cruellement ressentir en Champagne-Ardennes (une 2×2 voies existe désormais entre Vitry-le-François, Nancy et Strasbourg). Dans cette optique, l’A4 aurait desservi l’agglomération nancéienne pour rejoindre le tracé actuel au droit de Sarrebourg, et se prolonger jusqu’à Strasbourg et permettre facilement un accès à l’Allemagne via Metz (cette jonction autoroutière existait déjà). Il est vrai que le passage de l’A4 au Nord n’a pas désenclavé la Meuse de sa ruralité comme attendu et rares sont les entreprises qui se sont installées en bord d’A4 dans le traversée meusienne. Une A4 Sud aurait joui aussi de l’actuelle A33, tronçon reliant Nancy à Lunéville.
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Old November 6th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #1733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Cars were more difficult to distinguish then because nearly all of them were black.
Who said they were black??? It's only because of black and white pictures that they appear black.





Here in the US:
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Old November 6th, 2011, 10:14 PM   #1734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Who said they were black???
I'm old enough to remember. BTW, since you're in the States, the Model T Ford was only available in black. I think the relatively rare colourful cars were photographed more which is why you don't see so many black cars in the old photographs as I remember on the roads and at car shows.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 05:03 AM   #1735
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I would also prefer south version of A4.
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Old November 7th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #1736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Wisdom.

(..) Cars were more difficult to distinguish then because nearly all of them were black.(..)
They weren't:

http://rpeyre.free.fr/automobile/46.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AbkIsmwOWM
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Old November 12th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #1737
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Yet another in my Questions that Arise While Playing with Google Maps series:

If you're trying to follow the E60, how do you actually get from the A10 to the A85 (or vice versa) here: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll...src=6&t=m&z=15 ?
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Old November 12th, 2011, 05:56 PM   #1738
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That's interesting. You can't go from Tours to Angers and vice versa via that interchange. I suppose traffic is directed via the D37/D751 expressways. I believe these were around much earlier than A85 (which is a relatively new motorway).

If you look at Street View, you can see traffic to Angers is directed via the expressways, one exit north of this motorway interchange.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 07:45 AM   #1739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
That's interesting. You can't go from Tours to Angers and vice versa via that interchange. I suppose traffic is directed via the D37/D751 expressways. I believe these were around much earlier than A85 (which is a relatively new motorway).

If you look at Street View, you can see traffic to Angers is directed via the expressways, one exit north of this motorway interchange.
Yes, i think thats cause of the toll system. The A10 across Tours is completely private (Cofiroute). If there would be a connection, the users from the a85 Angers wouldn't pay.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 04:24 PM   #1740
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Well, they should lay out a route (for the E60) that can actually be followed. Every map I've seen shows it following the A10 and A85, so it's, um, surprising to learn that that can't actually be done.

Now, change of subject:

If this goes through ( http://abonnes.lemonde.fr/politique/...32_823448.html ), it will upset route numbering in Alsace. For those who don't read French, it's a first step toward abolishing the départements in that region - the départements and the region have agreed to merge, but the voters need to approve it, and I imagine central government would then need to sign off. So, all D-roads become Rs? With some renumbering where roads change number at what is now the departemental border, or to avoid duplicates? It's also a bit ironic that, a few years after Sarkozy (as minister of the interior) offloaded most of the national routes to the départements, there'd be steps toward abolishing the départements.

(In parentheses because it's nothing do do with roads, but the 2010 law mentioned in the article, making extensive changes to the way regional and local administration is organized, was the end result of a process at an earlier stage of which there was indeed talk of abolishing the départements. What ended up being passed was the abolition of one level of legislators by providing that regional legislatures would consist of legislators from the départements in the region, rather than being elected separately, but I didn't know until I read this article that people could decide at the local level to go further. It's none of my business, of course, but as a geography geek I need to know what's going to happen on maps. )
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