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Old January 5th, 2011, 05:49 PM   #27161
sgn7200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper1000 View Post
I have been informed that comstruction started on Lawn 4.

The construction company is Dimensions

http://www.dimensions-ec.com/Projects/Lawns4.html
Dear Jasper - I am a little bit confused. You are saying that construction has started and that the construction company is "Dimensions". Someone else is saying the constructon company has already gone under. As far as I know "Dimensions" is a firm of architects working for DEC (and others) who issue certificates certifying the amount of work done by the contractor. The fact is DEC have not contracted with any firm to proceed with the construction work. In fact, they have in-house contractor who is a related company of DEC and they have cross share holdings. The question of contractor going to the wall is misinformation being spread by DEC agents to hide their own failures. Let me request all of you to contact DEC office in Dubai and find out the truth and report this to the forum so that we can put our heads together and chalk out a clear sense of direction for the new year. Do not let any of these DEC agents mislead you. Happy New Year.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 06:09 PM   #27162
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Originally Posted by natoush View Post
I also have an apartment in Lawns V, and this year my family moved to Dubai, so i visited DEC office few time and i met different people. They are really donkeys! And so unproffecional! They offer me flat in Dubai Marina Wharf 1 and DEC Tower for 1200 per sq feet when on the market it cost 850 per sqf. Of course i said no! As per contract they have to handover by 3rd q of 2009 (means 31.09.2009), but by clause 5.1 they have right to extend for other 12 month, so 12 month expired 31.09.2010 after they have to refund money. So I went to the lawyer i she send them legal notice, they didn't reply. Result: next week we r going to place file in the Dubai court, it will cost us, but in writ we will charge them everything. My lawyer assured me that I have 95% chance to win the case!
There is also clause 16 in the contract Force Major where is written, even if they didnt handed over unit because of FM in time, after 2 years they have to refund full amount. About 3000AED I didnt recieve such a letter, but friend of mine said that Letter was dated by 9.09.2010, but they send it 14.10.10 after the contract expired. Keep your envelope just in case.
Dear Natoush - Please do not let DEC take you for a ride. They are experts in cheating innocent people by selling them something at a price so as to make super profits for themselves. Anybody who has been to their luxury offices in Dubai would know they have no income and yet they are able to run a luxury life style by cheating innocent people like you and me. They are offering you an apartment at DEC Towers at AED1200 psf, here is someone offering similar apartment at same place at less than AED800 psf. Please note I have no personal interest in the proposed transaction:
FOR SALE:

1 BEDROOM
DUBAI MARINA
DEC TOWER-I
948 SQ.FT.
UPGRADED REFURBISHMENT
SEA VIEW
READY TO MOVE IN
AED 750,00

050 745 0 757
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Old January 5th, 2011, 07:24 PM   #27163
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Very well put TB..

900 unbelievable! Any idea what a 1 bedder was going for....just curious to see what the difference is between Marina and The Palm..I've heard that a 1 bedder can be 100,000 AED at the Palm and a 2 bedder at the Marina is the same price!

What's the better location Marina or Palm in your view?

I've heard the Marina is too hot to go shopping (a 30 second walk btw)...in comparison to the Palm...which has the better infrastructure:..hear the Marina has great shopping Mall...what does the Palm have as an attraction?

1 beds in the marina range from 45k - 120k per year. Dreams tower still listing furnished 1 beds for 50-55k. Higher quality towers in the Chic end, Marina Promenade, The Jewels, Panoramic and the Address hotel are mostly at the higher price range 75-120k. Tridents TGR 1 beds were ranging 90-120k but it is early days to see if they are taken up at this price. Lower quality buildings in poor locations are being heavily discounted to try and find tenants and this discounting is putting pressure on all prices due to the general oversupply.

2 beds in the marina have a similar wide price bracketing with bottom end starting at around 60k going upto a max of 175k at the spacious/luxury end of the market. Average for a good quality development with around a minimum1400ft was 130k.

Palm Jumeirah does not fair much better than the marina when we exclude the lower quality small units away from the waterfront spots on the marina. The better units in the marina attract the same rents as PJ. PJ still suffers from insufficient shopping, night life and public space.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #27164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUBAI INVESTOR View Post
A step in the right direction but coming years too late. If I then understand this Strata Law provision correctly it applies to SPA's entered into between a developer and a purchaser after Jan 13 2011. I dont believe there are many of those sales still going on though. RERA is at great and spitting out law's and provisions etc but the main issue actually getting anything enforced in the Dubai courts, an endemically and prohibitly expensive torture process masquerading as civil law. Start enforcing the excisting laws or loose all investor credibility and watch Dubai turn into a ghost town.
Agree
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Old January 6th, 2011, 06:06 AM   #27165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgn7200 View Post
Dear Natoush - Please do not let DEC take you for a ride. They are experts in cheating innocent people by selling them something at a price so as to make super profits for themselves. Anybody who has been to their luxury offices in Dubai would know they have no income and yet they are able to run a luxury life style by cheating innocent people like you and me. They are offering you an apartment at DEC Towers at AED1200 psf, here is someone offering similar apartment at same place at less than AED800 psf. Please note I have no personal interest in the proposed transaction:
FOR SALE:

1 BEDROOM
DUBAI MARINA
DEC TOWER-I
948 SQ.FT.
UPGRADED REFURBISHMENT
SEA VIEW
READY TO MOVE IN
AED 750,00

050 745 0 757
I found also A similar one ,but much cheaper:
DEC Tower
Bedrooms: 1
Bathrooms: 2
Size: 950.00 SqFt
Price / SqFt: 600 AED
Community view
Selling price:AED570000
Naatsha 0509202739
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Old January 6th, 2011, 06:16 AM   #27166
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DEC offered me a studio 638sq.ft for DHS 700000 as an alternative of my LAWNS2 unit.Please check its market price :


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Old January 6th, 2011, 07:30 AM   #27167
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Any reason why this one doesn't show up on RERA website!
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Old January 6th, 2011, 08:56 AM   #27168
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Happy New Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleth View Post
Agree
Its been a while since i have posted on this forum.

It is strange to think people think that Dubai will become a ghost town!! Why? The main reason it appears on this forum is that people confuse investing/speculating with living in a city.

Yes it is feasible that Dubai will have less property investors/speculators than before and near the short term this will/may continue. This decision will be based on investment criteria such as risk, volatility, return etc.

However the majority of people living in Dubai are expat workers. People will continue to come and work in Dubai if they can find jobs. It is a large city for this area and offers attractive working conditions and also lifestlye conditions for the MENA region. Also some Europeans will come here for the same reason (especially Southern Europeans). So people will come here if they can find work!

Dubai is a great place to work and live in. This will continue in the future as a lot more infrastructure is being developed.

From an investment point of view, I think that property price may fall further (i think around 10% by the end of this year although i think that the end of this year maybe interesting). I maybe wrong but as someone who works in the UAE and has investments here, i will not be leaving due to Dubai's standard of living and pleasure that i recieve, living in the UAE. This has absolutely nothing to do with investing here.

I am sure a lot of people working in the UAE and Dubai feel the same way.

As a investor i am fortunate that i have made multiple investments. Some have worked well and ohters are dogs including some "delayed" projects.

Overall i may have made some capital losses but i accept responsibility given that Dubai is a frontier market and thus offers higher rewards but also higher risks. It could be argued that now Dubai offers higher rewards than the risks involved but those types of decisions depend on individual preferences and profiles. I believe that moderate falls will occur this year but Dubai as investment destination is less riskier than it was 12 months ago.

The point of this is basically dont confuse investment decisions with working and living decisions. The Dubai offers great employment and lifestyle for the MENA region and possibly beyond.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #27169
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I live in Business Bay, which is not that far from DSC by car. I am planning to visit DSC & Rufi in two week's time. The other problem I have is the mortgage... My bank (UBL) is not helpful at all. The interest rate is 8.5% and there is no willingness to reduce it...
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Old January 6th, 2011, 10:25 AM   #27170
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Originally Posted by 234sale View Post
Maybe the vanishing of useless Expat's is what he means. I'm still here to serve you Master...
lol, WTF
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Old January 6th, 2011, 10:27 AM   #27171
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DEWA and Communal Areas MD2

All Marina Diamonds are going to have no Electric. Problem stems from fact that first 3 years maintenance fees were guaranteed by Diamond Developers at a rate below costs ( 7aed sq ft excluding aircon). Yes there may have been some wastage but no where near enough to cover massive DEWA bills. Landlords have once again been asked to pay at same rate for year four and it is just not enough. I was in MD4 in October on the day DEWA were due to arrive and cut off supply. Diamond Developers eventually paid. These were arrears based on first 3 years and collection rates had been 90% in first 2 years. Developers should be cutting off supplies to individual apartments first. The brand new Owners Associations do not stand a chance unless all debts are settled before they accept any responsibility. These are Developer issues not individual property owners, what is legal situation for landlords that pay all their maintenance fees and then have no power in communal areas.

Last edited by NeilP; January 6th, 2011 at 10:33 AM.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 10:35 AM   #27172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iced View Post
The point of this is basically dont confuse investment decisions with working and living decisions. The Dubai offers great employment and lifestyle for the MENA region and possibly beyond.

LOL - Don't think anyone did!

Dont' think it said anything about working or living decisions - it concentrated on the investment issues!

Here it is...


Quote:
Originally Posted by DUBAI INVESTOR View Post
A step in the right direction but coming years too late. If I then understand this Strata Law provision correctly it applies to SPA's entered into between a developer and a purchaser after Jan 13 2011. I dont believe there are many of those sales still going on though. RERA is at great and spitting out law's and provisions etc but the main issue actually getting anything enforced in the Dubai courts, an endemically and prohibitly expensive torture process masquerading as civil law. Start enforcing the excisting laws or loose all investor credibility and watch Dubai turn into a ghost town.
^
.it was all about the process of a system that hasn't worked, SPA'S, Strata Law, the court system not enforcing it all, the expense involved...and of course RERA who sit back and do nothing! If these things do not change investor confidence further diminishes hence no more money coming in or investors if the laws are not there to protect! That's how I understood it nothing about working or living in Dubai! Is that right or do I have it wrong also?

One other matter to bear in mind is that the off plan market is dead...I think no one will disagree with that!

Last edited by unknownpleasures; January 6th, 2011 at 11:35 AM.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 12:31 PM   #27173
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P.D.C

Advise please. I have received a notice via my agent from Palm District Cooling requesting monies? They want a deposit, set up charge & capacity charge as
well as consumption meter service fee etc. I have let this apartment to a tenant.

What parts other than consumption should the tenant be paying?

Any light on this matter is much appreciated.

(Moderators- Apologies If this is in the wrong section please advise if so where a post like this should go)
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Old January 6th, 2011, 01:23 PM   #27174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unknownpleasures View Post
Any reason why this one doesn't show up on RERA website!
When I search I just search under Champ keyword as RERA are not consistant with their names....

This one shows up as Champions Tower 4 AL HEBIAH FOURTH 85
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Old January 6th, 2011, 01:32 PM   #27175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iced View Post
Its been a while since i have posted on this forum.

It is strange to think people think that Dubai will become a ghost town!! Why? The main reason it appears on this forum is that people confuse investing/speculating with living in a city.

Yes it is feasible that Dubai will have less property investors/speculators than before and near the short term this will/may continue. This decision will be based on investment criteria such as risk, volatility, return etc.

However the majority of people living in Dubai are expat workers. People will continue to come and work in Dubai if they can find jobs. It is a large city for this area and offers attractive working conditions and also lifestlye conditions for the MENA region. Also some Europeans will come here for the same reason (especially Southern Europeans). So people will come here if they can find work!

Dubai is a great place to work and live in. This will continue in the future as a lot more infrastructure is being developed.

From an investment point of view, I think that property price may fall further (i think around 10% by the end of this year although i think that the end of this year maybe interesting). I maybe wrong but as someone who works in the UAE and has investments here, i will not be leaving due to Dubai's standard of living and pleasure that i recieve, living in the UAE. This has absolutely nothing to do with investing here.

I am sure a lot of people working in the UAE and Dubai feel the same way.

As a investor i am fortunate that i have made multiple investments. Some have worked well and ohters are dogs including some "delayed" projects.

Overall i may have made some capital losses but i accept responsibility given that Dubai is a frontier market and thus offers higher rewards but also higher risks. It could be argued that now Dubai offers higher rewards than the risks involved but those types of decisions depend on individual preferences and profiles. I believe that moderate falls will occur this year but Dubai as investment destination is less riskier than it was 12 months ago.

The point of this is basically dont confuse investment decisions with working and living decisions. The Dubai offers great employment and lifestyle for the MENA region and possibly beyond.
I agree with your opinions and obvious local knowledge.

Dubai is a functioning Emirate that has grown massively in the last 5 years. Population, jobs and tourism have all grown over the same period. The problem is that nothing has kept pace with the out of control property and real estate sector. This sector has been fuelled by speculation and to some extent greed.

Like you, I to have bought a number of apartments and have guided freinds towards invesments some of which have been very sucessful and others which have been slow to arrive. Fortunately me and my friends have not bought into any total loss developments. More through careful research than relying on luck or chance.

This is where all the negativity shown on this forum generally comes from. People who bought a promise on a piece of paper from a guy usually sitting in a kiosk at a shopping mall. They had never heard of this developer before and did not look into their track record or visit the site to see if there was any work in progress or even if there was a road leading to it. But they did recognise the celebrities names used in the marketing or casualy dropped into the sales speak. Beckham, Federer, Schumaker all own property in Dubai, what are you waiting for, if you don't sign now you will miss the boat and be priced out of the market soon. All pressure tactics used by ex timeshare salesmen to bag their comission.

Hindsight is always 20:20, but people need to stop blaming Dubai for their own bad judgment and action. look at the positives that have been acheived in such a short time. Not every horse can win the race, take more care to select your horse in future.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 04:45 PM   #27176
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Oh TB this was never a horse race and you really are missing the point...perhaps you were lucky but many others were not so lucky but this was not the topic being discussed which dubaiinvestor brought forward. These property purchases you provide as examples (off plans) were not done at some backyard kiosk as you suggest! These were all approved developers by RERA were they not?

The information posted made reference to enforcing laws, court system, RERA etc..this is what it was about...when will this change - it hasn't so far!

I know many who purchased (not at a kiosk) when all these laws came through in 2007 (and keep coming out even to this day) and what of it? The developers investors dealt in 2007 with all were approved through RERA...is it still referred to as a bad judgment call on their part if RERA have them all listed as approved?...due diligence was undertaken and these investors thought because of these laws their money was protected. Unfortunately the monies they paid in many instances never saw an escrow account and the money has disappeared and nothing has been completed in the meantime! But it didn't stop the same developer from launching further projects and obtaining plots with the aid of RERA? Now it is the investors fault or the system that is supposed to protect them in this instance? I vouch for the latter! Something they have failed to do to date!

As mentioned you and many were lucky they weren't screwed in the process. As a multiple purchaser you were extremely fortunate but again as iced has explained some have turned out to be "dogs" and others "delayed"! Perhaps in this instance the multiple purchases outweigh the losses in other words..whereas many ordinary folk only made one purchase which to date has not been completed and never will be in many instances!

Last edited by unknownpleasures; January 7th, 2011 at 04:25 AM.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 04:56 PM   #27177
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Well said iced !
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Old January 6th, 2011, 05:07 PM   #27178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUBAI INVESTOR View Post
A step in the right direction but coming years too late. If I then understand this Strata Law provision correctly it applies to SPA's entered into between a developer and a purchaser after Jan 13 2011. I dont believe there are many of those sales still going on though. RERA is at great and spitting out law's and provisions etc but the main issue actually getting anything enforced in the Dubai courts, an endemically and prohibitly expensive torture process masquerading as civil law. Start enforcing the excisting laws or loose all investor credibility and watch Dubai turn into a ghost town.

Well said, agree 100 percent!

Sorry don't see anything here about working and living decisions, reference made to the laws, Dubai courts, RERA and enforcement of such!

Last edited by unknownpleasures; January 7th, 2011 at 02:28 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old January 6th, 2011, 07:03 PM   #27179
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New regulations coming into force in Dubai this month mean that developers will not be able to sell a property without a full disclosure statement.

The new rules, which take effect on January 13, are part of the Dubai strata law, and mean the buyers will need to be given estimates of when a development will be completed, future service charge estimates, and future estimates of utility charges.

The disclosure statement will also have to give details of the materials and finishes used in building the project, a description of the common areas of the property and list the onsite facilities that owners will have to pay for.

There has been some confusion as to whether the disclosure regime applies to complete units held by developers or relates only to incomplete developments where sales are made off plan.

According to Jeremy Scott though, a senior associate in Al Tamimi and Company’s property department, the wording of the relevant direction suggests that disclosures still need to be made by developers where the units are completed if title to the unit has not been issued.

However, Scott warned that this degree of confusion might mean that some developers could be caught off guard when the new regulations come into force. ‘Most developers have made significant progress towards meeting their obligations under the directions. We anticipate, however, that some developers will not be in a position to comply. In some cases developers may take the view that disclosure statements are not required with respect to completed projects where titles are available,’ he explained.



The disclosure statement is important as without it sales transactions can be cancelled by the buyer as failing to provide the details required is sufficient for the agreement to be declared void. There appears to be no time limit as to when this can happen.

The law is considered crucial to establishing legal guidelines for investors in nearly completed projects on Reem Island and in other areas with freehold property.

Strata law was rolled out in Dubai in May last year. Under the law, registered homeowner associations have the power to recover service fees from owners who default on payments. Homeowners will also not be able to transfer the deeds of their property until any outstanding service fees are settled.

However, there have been fears that homeowner groups could find themselves insolvent as soon as they take over a building, due to previous owners failing to pay their service fees.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 12:11 AM   #27180
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Trueblue

Not sure it’s all just mindless negativity by greedy investors who neglected doing their own due diligence. I think it’s reality that naturally evolved from an effectively unregulated marketplace.

And for that, the ones most at fault for allowing developers to be naughty little boys, has to be the ones in power, the ones who are supposed to be regulating?

TB, I don’t mean to be rude and I’m not sure what properties you invested in or guided your friends towards as you suggest, but perhaps your experience has been very ‘lucky’ rather than indicative of the average investor in the average investment? By the way when I say average, I don’t mean that as a derogatory term.

Personally, I reserved in 4 in 2007 (all of which were supposed to be completed and occupied by now, yet none of which are above ground yet). The largest 2 investments being in the Marina, one of whom was Damac. The other two were in JVS – a bigger risk, a gamble as I knew at the outset, but with bigger potential / ROI.

Whether they are someone like Damac, the biggest developer in the Middle East or a developer with less of a traceable track record, they are all the same in the fact that they are effectively operating in an unregulated market, where excuses for non-performance can go unchecked by any regulatory authority.

When I invested in 2007, sure there were many of the flipper / ‘get rich quick brigade’ operating there, some of whom (unsuccessfully) tried to entice me to join their gang. I was and am not interested in that, but with family members there, I was thinking long term as a place to relocate to myself. But unless the situation changes and more transparency / control becomes apparent in sectors (that could easily be properly regulated), at the moment I am not sure I’ll join you there soon…
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