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Old September 26th, 2011, 09:17 AM   #29121
maximus1
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tfg do not invest with them

The First Group Yasmin RAK
do not invest with them. i wish that i had never heard of them , let alone given them my hard earned money. bought an overpriced invest, delivered three years late (actually its still not been handed over yet) and despite all of their wealth builder plans & promisses they now tell me that the rental returns are not as they had hoped, and they are now trying to scare us into signing up for somthing, that is not at all beneficial to me.its kind of funny, if you phone them regarding any of ther projects, they will tell you that ther doing great and you better get a wiggle on or you will miss out and they tell tales of great returns via rentals.then like me when you talk to them about rentals or possible resale they tell you, good luck trying to sell or rent anything at the moment because nothing is moving, and they are right as i have checked out many est agents in the area, and nothing much is selling unless you want to sell at a loss. they do however continue to falsley advertise the high return rates etc on ther web site, and still send out to existing and potential customers ther rates that they know not to be true. i am in the process of now taking legal action against them.my journey with them has been one of dissapointment and being let down time after time, stressfull and to date the worst investment i have ever made, actually its the only epic disaster i have been involved with. this is why i am sharing this with whoever wants to take heed from it.
regarding the returns, i cannot quite believe what they have told me today, it hurt big time. they are saying the expected rental is now going to be in the region of 20 to 30 thousand aed a year, thats right folks a year 3 to 5 thousand sterling. they are expecting final payment. its not going to happen, the stark reality is it is no deal, this means i am going to be in dis pute with them and i now realise that i have lost my investment pretty much as i am sure that if i do not make the final payment they will probably seize it or somthing in ther favour. but it is already not worth what i paid for it, and 5k a year rental? it will take me about 60 years just to break even. if anyone is interested in contacting me then do so i can forward copies of correspondance to you. i think it is to late for anyone who has purchased in yasmin now we are all in the same situation?
i am looking for someone who has property in phase 1 yasmin, being rented out by tfg wealth builder plan.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 09:45 AM   #29122
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I have invested in 2 very bad projects in Dubai, so I went to seek some answers from RERA. This is what I experienced:

In March this year I had a pleasant meeting with Mr. Marwan and Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei at RERA.
They could not answer any of the questions but promised to come back with answers within a week.
That day Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei gave me his so called "business card".

Months went by, I did not hear anything.
I tried to ring the numbers on the business card 1000 times:
Direct line +971 4 203 0266 = not direct - only getting through to the switch board
Tel. +971 4 222 1112 switch board, then got through to complaints department (I thought) but that was only back to the switch board again.
One lady at switch board gave me another number:
+971 4 2030 263 but guess what it gets me through to the switch board again.
I wrote many e-mails to Mr. Khalid, his e-mail address khalidobaid@rera.gov.ae was on the business card. But he never replied.
So none of the info on the business card was actually working.

I drove down to RERA asking to talk to Mr. Khalid. But I was told I could not talk to him without booking a meeting. They told me I could do this through his secretary:
tel. +971 4 2030 577 = Number is not working!
E-mail marwa@rera.gov.ae Name: Marwa Hassan Darwish Al Ozaibi
I have written e-mails 5 times to her, she does not answer!

Are they doing it on purpose, having a meeting with investors, and then say "we will come back within a week with the answers!"??

Recently I got an e-mail address where I could file complaints:
rouda.y@mbsworld.net I am guessing this e-mail address does not work either!?
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Old September 26th, 2011, 10:08 AM   #29123
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a letter to tfg. danny lubert director & david lewis
this is a copy of a email i have just sent out to tfg to see if they want to answer any of the questions, they havent to date.

to danny lubert director of tfg and david lewis an empolyee, dated

25/9/2011

this is a copy of a email i have just sent to david lewis but it is also for you to repond to or not. i have another letter for you that shall follow shortly.
why can you not answer the following questions despite asking you on numerous times now. it shows that you tfg do not want to put anything in writing, and waisting more time, that we need.
1, when did tfg know that rental returns were nose diving?
2,why didnt tfg notify its clients that rentals were crashing?
if you had of done at least we would have had longer to try andsell our units. as it is finding out at handover leaves us only 2.5 months in a very bad market.
3, why do you continue to advertise yasmin rak on your web site as a great place to invest etc etc. its outright fraud. but good for my legal case.

you advertise the right place, the right time, the right price in my experience it has been the wrong place,time and price!
4.why did you tell me that the wealth builder was still in place and good, when you were adviseing us to go in ther , transfering from white bay?
5, i have advised you and will be advising the directors of our intention not to be making any further payments to tfg, ie final 20%. as we are taking legal action against tfg
.i have asked you what the concequences of this will be, ie penalties etc all of the details? you have failed to respond on this also.
6, what have the annual maintenance fees been in phase 1?
7, what are and have been the annual rental fees in phase 1?
8, do you intend to finish the development? and in what time frame?
9, have you tfg notified people in phase 3 of the wealth builders demise ie poor rentals?
10, why has your asset management team not reponded to our request to put whatever it is they are saying in writing? they have not even sent email through, ther is no communication from tfg at all either, hence this letter again?
11, how quickly did the rental market change in rak? over how many years or was it days?
12, what does tfg think will happen to both the rental market and property prices in rak in the next three years?

to all online readers who are following this, thanks for the feed back and comments so far. a copy of this email was alse forwarded to one of tfg directors danny lubert at the same time so lets see if they respond at all?
i shall post all responses on line for you to see.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 11:46 AM   #29124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glover View Post
it's already taking care of. By law an apartment can be sold at a publlic auction if the owner fails to pay service charges.

RERA's Circular No.1 of 2010 deals with Service Charge for Jointly Owned Property, as stipulated in Law No. 27 of 2007.

Article (9) of the Circular states:

"9. Failure to pay Service Charge on time is a violation of the Law and may result in civil penalties including a lien being imposed over the Unit. Continued failure to pay the Service Charge may result in legal enforcement of the lien to recover Service Charges which may result in a public auction, with outstanding Service Charges being deducted from the selling price."
The reply from the buildings management company after I sent them your post.

----------------------------------------
Yes, this law is in place.

Unfortunately what is preventing us from taking further action is that there are no legally constituted Owners Associations in Dubai. As yet RERA have not provided the facility for an OA to become a licensed, registered, entity so that it can (1) transfer the title of the underlying plot and building common areas into the name of the OA, (2) open a bank account, (3) enter into contracts, and (4) sue and be sued. Until such time there is no legal entity, the Owners Association, that can enter into legal proceedings.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 12:21 PM   #29125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleth View Post
I have invested in 2 very bad projects in Dubai, so I went to seek some answers from RERA. This is what I experienced:

In March this year I had a pleasant meeting with Mr. Marwan and Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei at RERA.
They could not answer any of the questions but promised to come back with answers within a week.
That day Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei gave me his so called "business card".

Months went by, I did not hear anything.
I tried to ring the numbers on the business card 1000 times:
Direct line +971 4 203 0266 = not direct - only getting through to the switch board
Tel. +971 4 222 1112 switch board, then got through to complaints department (I thought) but that was only back to the switch board again.
One lady at switch board gave me another number:
+971 4 2030 263 but guess what it gets me through to the switch board again.
I wrote many e-mails to Mr. Khalid, his e-mail address khalidobaid@rera.gov.ae was on the business card. But he never replied.
So none of the info on the business card was actually working.

I drove down to RERA asking to talk to Mr. Khalid. But I was told I could not talk to him without booking a meeting. They told me I could do this through his secretary:
tel. +971 4 2030 577 = Number is not working!
E-mail marwa@rera.gov.ae Name: Marwa Hassan Darwish Al Ozaibi
I have written e-mails 5 times to her, she does not answer!

Are they doing it on purpose, having a meeting with investors, and then say "we will come back within a week with the answers!"??

Recently I got an e-mail address where I could file complaints:
rouda.y@mbsworld.net I am guessing this e-mail address does not work either!?
It is tempting to believe that RERA exists to protect buyers of property in Dubai from dodgy developers. In fact, my experience is that it exists to protect dodgy developers from their customers, and to create a semblance of regulatory sanity to suck in other punters. Evidence? The large number of people whose experience of the organisation matches yours (and mine) - and the lack of warm testimonials from people who have actually got results out of them...
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Old September 26th, 2011, 12:26 PM   #29126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleth View Post
I have invested in 2 very bad projects in Dubai, so I went to seek some answers from RERA. This is what I experienced:

In March this year I had a pleasant meeting with Mr. Marwan and Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei at RERA.
They could not answer any of the questions but promised to come back with answers within a week.
That day Mr. Khalid Obaid Al Mutaiwei gave me his so called "business card".

Months went by, I did not hear anything.
I tried to ring the numbers on the business card 1000 times:
Direct line +971 4 203 0266 = not direct - only getting through to the switch board
Tel. +971 4 222 1112 switch board, then got through to complaints department (I thought) but that was only back to the switch board again.
One lady at switch board gave me another number:
+971 4 2030 263 but guess what it gets me through to the switch board again.
I wrote many e-mails to Mr. Khalid, his e-mail address khalidobaid@rera.gov.ae was on the business card. But he never replied.
So none of the info on the business card was actually working.

I drove down to RERA asking to talk to Mr. Khalid. But I was told I could not talk to him without booking a meeting. They told me I could do this through his secretary:
tel. +971 4 2030 577 = Number is not working!
E-mail marwa@rera.gov.ae Name: Marwa Hassan Darwish Al Ozaibi
I have written e-mails 5 times to her, she does not answer!

Are they doing it on purpose, having a meeting with investors, and then say "we will come back within a week with the answers!"??

Recently I got an e-mail address where I could file complaints:
rouda.y@mbsworld.net I am guessing this e-mail address does not work either!?
Hi Plet

I know exactly what you mean. In various investor groups that I am part of, we have written to Rouda Yunis from customer services and also Mr Khalid many times, as those two were also ones that we were given to contact. Also tried the phone 'game', but experienced similar issues to yourself. Not me personally, but some people I know have also tried to make face to face meeting at RERA either in advance, or simply just turning up at the offices during Dubai visits.

After all the above attempts, we're still none the wiser….
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Old September 26th, 2011, 12:32 PM   #29127
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the first group, WE ARE NOT THREATENING YOU BUT?

well i have just had a phone call this morning from david lewis tfg.
i asked if tfg has or should have notified any of its clients that rentals were terrible and not as they had said.
david lewis replies, wether we should have communicated that things were bad, NO not from our companys stand point.
my question to him, have you ever as a company sent out email re poor performance to clients.
david lewis, reply NO. BECAUSE THE ONLY PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE COMPLETED ON IS THE DIAMOND, its fully sold out but rents and owners are dissapointed at returns they are getting?
things were said between us and went on a bit.
david lewis, says to me so you have spoken to a couple of investors?
me, yes i am posting my acccount online, as if i can save one person from going down the road i have gone down, its worth it.
DAVID LEWIS says, im not trying to threaten you in any way at all max, but we do know , and have ways of finding out whats going on line, and if we do not feel comfortable with whats being said we will take action to protect our corporate image.
im not try to threaten you but if we see somything we are not happy with we will have to take action.
me to him,
all i have ever said on line is the truth and i can prove it, and if we do end up in court ill only ever tell the truth and somone will listen to me.

we then went on a bit more, basically david lewis was saying that nothing could be done by tfg, and i went on to say ok put everything that we have discussed in writing as i shall be pursuing a legal route.
i shall try and work out a way of putting this telephone conversation on line so that all can hear.
if they do threaten me i shall let you all know what they say.
ill keep on posting
a copy of this is going to be forwarded to daany lubert one of the first groups directors
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Old September 26th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #29128
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Resent the email yesterday explaining the urgency but still to no avail.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #29129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Hornet View Post
The reply from the buildings management company after I sent them your post.

----------------------------------------
Yes, this law is in place.

Unfortunately what is preventing us from taking further action is that there are no legally constituted Owners Associations in Dubai. As yet RERA have not provided the facility for an OA to become a licensed, registered, entity so that it can (1) transfer the title of the underlying plot and building common areas into the name of the OA, (2) open a bank account, (3) enter into contracts, and (4) sue and be sued. Until such time there is no legal entity, the Owners Association, that can enter into legal proceedings.
Sorry if I have missed some of the rest of this issue and my point may already have been covered.

If the Home owners associations have not yet been licensed, why do the managers not serve the notices and open cases against the non payers. All the managers/developers need to do is issue the invoices and reminder for non payment. If the OA is not yet the legal entity then the original developer must still be the entity in control
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Old September 26th, 2011, 01:02 PM   #29130
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Originally Posted by wittyman View Post
Does anbody have witnessed any application of this rule?

If there is not yet any owner's association can the managing develıoper do the same?

I have not paid last two year's management fee for an apartment as the developer invoiced the management fee together with a claim for an extra payment of AED 58,000 for the apartment being larger than it's original size in the contract. (And of course without proıviding any proof / measurement records etc. whatsoever.) They were sying they will go to court. But tey did not e-mail or send me any invitation for court. And did not send any notification via notary public.

Maybe I should check out nevertheless?? Any advice anyone?
If you do not pay anything then you will be savaged in the property courts. Expect to pay all the other parties costs, notary public fees, newspaper notice posting fees and court imposed penalty as per the law. By not paying anything you are in default and the courts will be happy to make an example of you.

If you pay what you think you fairly should pay, then it is a clear cut dispute which could fall either way. In which case, win or lose you may not be made to pay a penalty or the other sides costs.

What your argument is analagous to is saying that you were invoiced for a first class seat on the journey but actually only travelled second class so refuse to even pay the second class fare. Not a hope in hell of getting off Scot free!
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Old September 26th, 2011, 01:11 PM   #29131
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found a recent article that deals with this issue. Apparently, it seems that your developer has not yet supplied to the authorities all the legally required information to enact and legalized the OA, hence your problem and many others.

maybe the management company is in the pockets of the developer and they are unfairly putting the blame on the law rather than the developer!!

some more info: "Finally, on the issue of recovering service charges by OAs, Lunjevich said: “There are many measures that can be taken that range from a friendly chat through to withholding access to facilities or liens over the property. Law 27 allows a fast track mechanism to serve a notice through the notary and then attach a lien to the property and this may allow sale by auction which is really the end game if someone is not paying their charges.”"

http://www.emirates247.com/property/...06-22-1.404020

http://www.hadefpartners.com/News/pa...px?mediaid=180

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Hornet View Post
The reply from the buildings management company after I sent them your post.

----------------------------------------
Yes, this law is in place.

Unfortunately what is preventing us from taking further action is that there are no legally constituted Owners Associations in Dubai. As yet RERA have not provided the facility for an OA to become a licensed, registered, entity so that it can (1) transfer the title of the underlying plot and building common areas into the name of the OA, (2) open a bank account, (3) enter into contracts, and (4) sue and be sued. Until such time there is no legal entity, the Owners Association, that can enter into legal proceedings.

Last edited by glover; September 26th, 2011 at 01:42 PM.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 04:13 PM   #29132
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Sorry, I didn't resent it, I re-sent it!!!
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Old September 26th, 2011, 09:06 PM   #29133
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OK we all must pay service charges.....but who is entitled to receive them?

The Owners Association is clearly the correct party if they have been legally established.

However if they are not legally established, why does everyone believe they should pay a dodgy developer that has already ripped them off on the sale?
That is if the dodgy developer is even still using their original limited company name!

If RERA gave out clear legal statement to everyone where service charges should be paid then I for one will sleep a lot more comfortably. I see no reason to believe any correspondence I receive from a proven lying cheating developer!
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Old September 26th, 2011, 09:28 PM   #29134
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Not meaning to reignite the recent debate between Glover and TerryPop, though fairly clear which side's 'logic' I clearly don't accept, for anyone who read my recent posts... But does anyone who actually works in the industry in Dubai, and who is not biased (eg Imre or 234sale), can give us an indication of how the trend in recent transactions (investors vs owner occupiers) is going?

I guess I could write to Cluttons or other real estate consultancies who research the dubai r.e. market, to ask them the same question, but I'm being lazy...

I suspect that for the much needed owner-occs (and indeed tenants) to challenge the supply pipeline, the govt may need to rethink their game-plan, in terms of proactive measures to encourage immigration? Media, PR etc is not enough...
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Old September 26th, 2011, 10:12 PM   #29135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintbug View Post
OK we all must pay service charges.....but who is entitled to receive them?

The Owners Association is clearly the correct party if they have been legally established.

However if they are not legally established, why does everyone believe they should pay a dodgy developer that has already ripped them off on the sale?
That is if the dodgy developer is even still using their original limited company name!

If RERA gave out clear legal statement to everyone where service charges should be paid then I for one will sleep a lot more comfortably. I see no reason to believe any correspondence I receive from a proven lying cheating developer!
Whoever gets the maintenance fees approved by Rera is entitled to receive them.

I have sat in HOA meetings and listened to what I thought were unreasonable stances made by the interim HOA. They insisted that no owner should pay the developer the maintenance fees as they had not been approved. A stand off developed and the developer said they were not obliged to pay for services while the owners were refusing to pay anything, therefore they would be terminating the security and maintenance contractor with immediate effect. Fortunately someone saw sense and proposed that a token interim payment should be made to keep the services operating until such time as it was approved.

It is important that the person responsible for providing the services is reimbursed otherwise it is theft IMO. What we need is transparency so that previous years accounts can be scrutinised by the HOA to ensure the developer did not misdirect any of the cash and has paid his share for the unsold units.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 12:26 AM   #29136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glover View Post
found a recent article that deals with this issue. Apparently, it seems that your developer has not yet supplied to the authorities all the legally required information to enact and legalized the OA, hence your problem and many others.

maybe the management company is in the pockets of the developer and they are unfairly putting the blame on the law rather than the developer!!

some more info: "Finally, on the issue of recovering service charges by OAs, Lunjevich said: “There are many measures that can be taken that range from a friendly chat through to withholding access to facilities or liens over the property. Law 27 allows a fast track mechanism to serve a notice through the notary and then attach a lien to the property and this may allow sale by auction which is really the end game if someone is not paying their charges.”"

http://www.emirates247.com/property/...06-22-1.404020

http://www.hadefpartners.com/News/pa...px?mediaid=180
I find it hard not to believe the building management.After all it causes a big headache for them not to be receiving the service charges due.Therefore if it was legally possible for them to retrieve the funds then surely they would have no reason not to pursue this?

As for service charges,is it now the norm to be able to pay in stages as opposed to a one off yearly cheque?After all the majority of owners who have tenants do not receive a one off cheque so why should we be expected to pay one cheque.
Having asked that,in fact considering the discussion on service charges and non payments,the owners can dictate how they will pay,3/4/12 cheques whatever and theres not alot the management companies can do it seems.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 12:31 AM   #29137
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Bump

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkWass View Post
Not meaning to reignite the recent debate between Glover and TerryPop, though fairly clear which side's 'logic' I clearly don't accept, for anyone who read my recent posts... But does anyone who actually works in the industry in Dubai, and who is not biased (eg Imre or 234sale), can give us an indication of how the trend in recent transactions (investors vs owner occupiers) is going?

I guess I could write to Cluttons or other real estate consultancies who research the dubai r.e. market, to ask them the same question, but I'm being lazy...

I suspect that for the much needed owner-occs (and indeed tenants) to challenge the supply pipeline, the govt may need to rethink their game-plan, in terms of proactive measures to encourage immigration? Media, PR etc is not enough...
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Old September 27th, 2011, 07:55 AM   #29138
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Nakheel plans 200 villas on Palm Jumeirah: sources

No tenders have been issued yet

By Parag DeulgaonkarPublished Tuesday, September 27, 2011

Nakheel, a Dubai-based developer, is planning to build close to 200 villas on the Palm Jumeirah, market sources told Emirates24|7.

"The company is planning to build 200 villas on Palm Jumeirah. No tenders have yet been issued," a contractor, working on some Nakheel projects, said on the condition of anonymity.

Nakheel refused to comment when contacted by this website.

Company Chairman Ali Lootah has said earlier they plan to build villas on Palm Jumeriah.

"There is high demand for Nakheel projects. We have delivered what we have promised," he had said.

According to information mentioned in the Nakheel sukuk document, a total of 1,395 villas are located on Palm Jumeirah and every signature and garden home villa features a private beach and a swimming pool.

All of the villas developed by Nakheel have been sold, completed and handed over to customers.

In August, the company sold a luxury villa on Palm Jumeirah for nearly Dh28 million at a private auction.

Nakheel has said it plans to commence hand over of 1,663 apartments in International City before the year-end and has handed over 1,180 units over the past 18 months.

http://www.emirates247.com/property/...09-27-1.420713
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Old September 27th, 2011, 08:52 AM   #29139
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l phoned Rufi on 7th September and was told that there had been "issues" with the contractors but these had now been resolved and come October work would resume as before. Completion should be in 12 - 15 months.

Another glimmer of hope. It is my experience that when l phone Rufi and there is no one available to speak to me the project is in trouble, and when someone is available to speak to me it's because they have something positive to report. On this basis l felt that the project would move forward again.

To those on this forum who are in Dubai please would you keep an eye open for any signs that the project is resumed at full pace next month? Many thanks.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 09:33 AM   #29140
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Quote:
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l phoned Rufi on 7th September and was told that there had been "issues" with the contractors but these had now been resolved and come October work would resume as before. Completion should be in 12 - 15 months.

Another glimmer of hope. It is my experience that when l phone Rufi and there is no one available to speak to me the project is in trouble, and when someone is available to speak to me it's because they have something positive to report. On this basis l felt that the project would move forward again.

To those on this forum who are in Dubai please would you keep an eye open for any signs that the project is resumed at full pace next month? Many thanks.
This site's good for photo updates.

http://www.skyscraperlist.com/showth...RS-2x16F-Res-m
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