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Old January 2nd, 2014, 03:03 PM   #361
adevahi
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This is different from what I said. I said that if you crash from behind a car that's in front of your, you're always wrong, and that's fair (because you have to be at safety distance). You mentioned reverse gear of the other party and your uncl being still: this is not part of the equation.
Basically you are right.
I'm sorry but not, that's completely unfair, simply because when any good driver decide to be at safety distance there is always the typical stupid that thinks this space is free only for letting him to occupy it
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 03:05 PM   #362
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I'm sorry but not, that's completely unfair, simply because when any good driver decide to be at safety distance there is always the typical stupid that thinks this space is free only for letting him to occupy it
So, you slow down and mantain safety distance from the newcomer. It's not that hard.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 11:01 PM   #363
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What's the difference? If you're wrong for one, you're wrong for the other too.
Double punishment.
Protection for brake testers.
Protection for people cutting you up/not respecting the right of way.
Possibly also encouraging extra Hit and Run.

Without a dash cam it's hard to prove the others fault, encouraging ''I'm indicating so I'm going'' behaviour who seem to think they have the right to change lanes without giving way or checking mirrors.
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So, you slow down and mantain safety distance from the newcomer. It's not that hard.
Yeah, create a traffic jam for everybody else by creating a brake wave, very social for everyone behind you...

EDIT:
For example


The white van is wrong in this situation, if it had been a collision then the driver with the camera would be innocent, without a dash cam the van driver would probably win the dispute with the insurers.
( before you go on about overtaking on the right, overtaking on the right is always allowed with squared lane separators.)

Or this filmer, if he'd hit those 2 morons, it'd be his fault according to you ? No way. The one coming in from the rear is not always at fault and shouldn't be. ( from 0:52)





Do you really think people like this deserve an extra punishment after something like this, they're having a bad enough day and a lesson as it is, nobody is not going to be not shook up when this happens :

Last edited by snowdog; January 3rd, 2014 at 12:01 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 12:11 AM   #364
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Traffic jam for just slowing down a little and then resuming my usual speed? What are you talking about? Do you know what a traffic jam is and how it is formed?

Besides, I won't break the code just because others do. It's their fault, not mine.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 12:20 AM   #365
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So, you slow down and mantain safety distance from the newcomer. It's not that hard.
But sometimes it is hard. Something like real driver dilemma. Imagine this: You are on congested motorway maintaining the safety distance. When moron from next lane decide to cut in to the gap. There are two possible options:

- to ignore safety distance, what is not really wise and you could be guilty for possible accident

- to slow down and form "new" safety distance. But another moron may act like aforementioned one. Also don't forget you are on motorway and slowing down is not safe as well.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 12:44 AM   #366
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Traffic jam for just slowing down a little and then resuming my usual speed? What are you talking about? Do you know what a traffic jam is and how it is formed?

Besides, I won't break the code just because others do. It's their fault, not mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wm-pZp_mi0

This is what happens is someone brakes,, a whole train starts to brake creating a traffic jam ''wave''. If people would simply accept driving a shorter distance temporarily & not use the brake but just release the throttle ( and quicker on it when distance increases again), then we'd have much less jams. 2 seconds distance during the morning and evening hours would mean we'd need many more lanes of motorway in Holland. Nobody does 2 seconds distance around 5.00pm where I live on the motorways ( around Rotterdam), if they would then we'd have many many more jams.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 12:57 AM   #367
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Congestions might be also consequence of merging lane. Just imagine the most simplest case:

Let's have motorway in city in rush hour, but everyone is driving at same speed - 70 kph with same gaps between vehicles - 30 metres.

Now imagine merging lane beside. If we pick out one certain driver /or car/, hereinafter referred as vehicle 1, to create a gap with safety distance for merging vehicle, he have to slow down by 10 kph (thus to 60 kph). The same should goes for all drivers, but have a closer look to vehicle 2 behind vehicle 1. Besides slowing and forming a gap for next merging vehicle, he also have to maintain safety distance from vehicle 1, that is slowing down for aforementioned reason. Thus, vehicle 2 have to slow down to 60 kph (to maintain safety distance from vehicle 1) and furthermore by 10 kph to let merging vehicle in. So that car 2 will drive at 50 eventually. The same goes for other vehicles in queue and the sixth car, call it vehicle 6, have to stop to let merging vehicles in.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 01:14 AM   #368
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Congestions might be also consequence of merging lane. Just imagine the most simplest case:

Let's have motorway in city in rush hour, but everyone is driving at same speed - 70 kph with same gaps between vehicles - 30 metres.

Now imagine merging lane beside. If we pick out one certain driver /or car/, hereinafter referred as vehicle 1, to create a gap with safety distance for merging vehicle, he have to slow down by 10 kph (thus to 60 kph). The same should goes for all drivers, but have a closer look to vehicle 2 behind vehicle 1. Besides slowing and forming a gap for next merging vehicle, he also have to maintain safety distance from vehicle 1, that is slowing down for aforementioned reason. Thus, vehicle 2 have to slow down to 60 kph (to maintain safety distance from vehicle 1) and furthermore by 10 kph to let merging vehicle in. So that car 2 will drive at 50 eventually. The same goes for other vehicles in queue and the sixth car, call it vehicle 6, have to stop to let merging vehicles in.
I don't think you're right. The 2nd vehicle doesn't have to let the merging vehicle in, it only slows down because of the 1st vehicle. But yes, eventually someone far behind will have to stop.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 10:04 AM   #369
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wm-pZp_mi0

This is what happens is someone brakes
I never said "brakes". If you have to brake because someone overtakes you and occupies the safety distance between you and the previous car, it means you weren't mantaining a correct safety distance. I just release the throttle until a new safety distance is in place. I do that all the time and never formed queues. And even if I do, that wouldn't be my problem.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 10:32 AM   #370
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to slow down and form "new" safety distance. But another moron may act like aforementioned one. Also don't forget you are on motorway and slowing down is not safe as well.
Exactly, that's what happens. "Safety distance" is a distance between two cars, so only because of this, it won't depend only on you, it will depend on both drivers
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:32 PM   #371
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Double punishment.
EDIT:
For example


The white van is wrong in this situation, if it had been a collision then the driver with the camera would be innocent, without a dash cam the van driver would probably win the dispute with the insurers.
( before you go on about overtaking on the right, overtaking on the right is always allowed with squared lane separators.)
The guy in the Mercedes should have released the throttle when the van started indicating. Both drivers are idiots for me. One doesn't want to give way, the other one is impatient to switch lanes. The fact that you have a priority doesn't mean you have to push it. I'd rather avoid an accident, than explain later how I saw that he will swicth lanes, but decided I'll defend my priority.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:34 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Congestions might be also consequence of merging lane. Just imagine the most simplest case:

Let's have motorway in city in rush hour, but everyone is driving at same speed - 70 kph with same gaps between vehicles - 30 metres.

Now imagine merging lane beside. If we pick out one certain driver /or car/, hereinafter referred as vehicle 1, to create a gap with safety distance for merging vehicle, he have to slow down by 10 kph (thus to 60 kph). The same should goes for all drivers, but have a closer look to vehicle 2 behind vehicle 1. Besides slowing and forming a gap for next merging vehicle, he also have to maintain safety distance from vehicle 1, that is slowing down for aforementioned reason. Thus, vehicle 2 have to slow down to 60 kph (to maintain safety distance from vehicle 1) and furthermore by 10 kph to let merging vehicle in. So that car 2 will drive at 50 eventually. The same goes for other vehicles in queue and the sixth car, call it vehicle 6, have to stop to let merging vehicles in.
Yep that's just a bottleneck, but I find brake waves more annoying as they can be prevented, people who brake every tiny thing happening on the road cause extra congestion...
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The guy in the Mercedes should have released the throttle when the van started indicating. Both drivers are idiots for me. One doesn't want to give way, the other one is impatient to switch lanes. The fact that you have a priority doesn't mean you have to push it. I'd rather avoid an accident, than explain later how I saw that he will swicth lanes, but decided I'll defend my priority.
No he doesn't, the car changing lanes has to give way, the Mercedes should not have to do anything but ignore someone who is changing lanes imho. The van could have simply joined in much much later ( not like it's hard or there wasn't space), but now, the Mercedes driver has lost a couple seconds, a bit of extra fuel, and a little bit off his brake pads.

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The guy in the Mercedes should have released the throttle when the van started indicating.
I disagree, changing lanes is nobody's problem but the one who changes lanes.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:49 PM   #373
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No he doesn't, the car changing lanes has to give way, the Mercedes should not have to do anything but ignore someone who is changing lanes imho. The van could have simply joined in much much later ( not like it's hard or there wasn't space), but now, the Mercedes driver has lost a couple seconds, a bit of extra fuel, and a little bit off his brake pads.
Wow, what w big waste of time - a couple of seconds! If he'd just released the throttle earlier his brake pads would be quite OK. And if that fuel cost is so high may be he/she shouldn't drive a Merc, but something cheaper.

Quote:
I disagree, changing lanes is nobody's problem but the one who changes lanes.
And the guy with the white van solved the problem for himself just fine.


You have to keep in mind you are not alone on the road. What makes you a good driver is not the full following of traffic regulations, but driving in such a way that reduces accidents in a maximum way.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:54 PM   #374
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I disagree, changing lanes is nobody's problem but the one who changes lanes.
Actually I agree with you, but not in this point. Although tolerance is not defined in any traffic rules, every driver should drive therewith.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 03:00 PM   #375
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Wow, what w big waste of time - a couple of seconds! If he'd just released the throttle earlier his brake pads would be quite OK. And if that fuel cost is so high may be he/she shouldn't drive a Merc, but something cheaper.
I'm talking about the big picture, millions of cars every day.

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And the guy with the white van solved the problem for himself just fine.
He didn't give way and behaved selfish towards the Merc imo. Why, what good does it do to merge at the earliest possible moment ?
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You have to keep in mind you are not alone on the road.
Something I like to say to people like that van driver.
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Although tolerance is not defined in any traffic rules, every driver should drive therewith.
I just don't see any reason at all why the van driver (and many Dutch drivers in general) starts merging extremely early on with more than enough space to do it even half a minute later. How is it any safer doing it a little later when changing lanes/merging/etc ?
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 03:09 PM   #376
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I'm not defending the driver of the van in any way, just advocating for more tolerance.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 03:18 PM   #377
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Fair enough, the reason I don't like such things is that in the car you're always dependant of others, in a hurry others will slow your down a lot.

This is not the case in any other form of personal transport like walking, cycling or a moped, you simply go faster when in a hurry and arrive sooner and there is not much anyone else can do to stop that . On the motorway you are constantly slowed down by armies of grey haired people (I'm generalizing, but it's often true, I don't remember being slowed down often by younger people driving Audi's BMW's etc... It's mostly an Agila or Aygo or Meriva or similar small hatchback or mini MPV) who have no clue often they are being a pain for others :p.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:18 PM   #378
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If you ask me, the Benz guy is going way too fast in that context. 2+ roads are merging, traffic fluxes are mixing, you must expect vehicles changing lanes. If you get into that situation keeping a speed different from any one else, you're looking for problems...

Also, I don't know if Dutch law defines which road has prioirity (does it?), but my habitude is to avoid overtaking from the right side - especially at a speed other drivers wouldn't expect.

Given he's keeping the legal limit (which I doubt, since everyone else there is much slower), pretending to keep it up and ram in the middle of a bunch of slower vehicles is just childish.

The van guy should have looked twice in the mirror, but I can understand why he didn't expect that coming from behind so quickly.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:48 PM   #379
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If you ask me, the Benz guy is going way too fast in that context. 2+ roads are merging, traffic fluxes are mixing, you must expect vehicles changing lanes. If you get into that situation keeping a speed different from any one else, you're looking for problems...
Indeed, he should have adjusted his speed to the general speed all cars around him are driving at. Then there would not be any problem.

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Also, I don't know if Dutch law defines which road has prioirity (does it?), but my habitude is to avoid overtaking from the right side - especially at a speed other drivers wouldn't expect.
By not adjusting his speed, he is indeed overtaking on the right. Which is not allowed in The Netherlands.

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Given he's keeping the legal limit (which I doubt, since everyone else there is much slower), pretending to keep it up and ram in the middle of a bunch of slower vehicles is just childish.
Agreed!

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The van guy should have looked twice in the mirror, but I can understand why he didn't expect that coming from behind so quickly.
Me too! And this is one car only. But how should he react or how long should he wait if a series of (much) faster driving cars are passing him on the right side of his vehicle?

All this can be avoided by slowing down to the regular speed at such parts where roads are merging. That is how it is taught when taking driving lessons.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 02:11 AM   #380
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By not adjusting his speed, he is indeed overtaking on the right. Which is not allowed in The Netherlands.
You're talking about driving lessons but you do not know what ''blokmarkering'' is ? Squared lane separators means you can overtake on the right...

You can overtake anyone on any side if there is a ''blokmarkering''. I disagree about your logic, traffic does not have to adjust speed for joining traffic, joining traffic has to adjust speed for the traffic already there. In no situation should traffic already in a lane have to adjust to traffic weaving or joining in.

Last edited by snowdog; January 4th, 2014 at 02:20 AM.
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