Your Sheffield Transport Solutions

[link_road_17/7]

Why is a tram-train project/study needed, when light/heavy rail mixed running already exists?

Railtrack got the Sunderland Metro project done.
Mcr Metrolink runs on Network Rail metals (tho segregated from heavy rail)
Nottm. has NET/Robin Hood Line sharing a similar alignment.

What more can be learnt?

[muddycoffee]

This really does sound a good way to expand the supertram network by the back door. And in a way it will bring the spirit of the once favoured train station at fitzalan square.

Catching a tram-train from central sheffield to rotherham will be great and I'm sure it will greatly benefit rotherham without the turmoil of having the city dug up for a new tram network. Many people live in sheffield and work in rotherham or meadowhall and others live in rotherham and work in meadowhall and sheffield. This could be a great service for them.

[Metrolinkthesecond]

Much better than the original plan, however, still not true tram-train as the pilot is not going to server any stations with high level platforms.

[RichJay]

More details from the star...

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/UK39s-...-to.5650456.jp

UK's first tram-train route to run between Sheffield and Rotherham
Published Date: 16 September 2009

TENS of millions of pounds is to be spent piloting the UK's first tram-train route in South Yorkshire - which would run between Sheffield and Rotherham, and could open within three years.
The service would run along the Supertram line from Sheffield city centre to Tinsley, then switch to an adjacent railway to Rotherham Central station and Parkgate retail park.

Announcing the scheme, rail minister Chris Mole MP said: "Tram-train is a new concept in Britain. It provides seamless travel from rural and suburban areas direct into city centres, potentially cutting
congestion and offering an alternative to car commuting."

The scheme is to be paid for with Government funding already guaranteed for use of tram-trains in South Yorkshire - originally planned for the Penistone railway line between Sheffield and Huddersfield.

That proposal, which would have cost £25 million, has been put on hold due to problems finding suitable diesel trams as the line is not electrified. However Northern Rail, which operates the line, said it may still go ahead in the future.

The Sheffield to Parkgate route - originally planned as part of the Supertram network almost two decades ago - could use electric trams which are more easily available.

The exact cost has yet to be confirmed but is likely to be similar to the Penistone line scheme.

The only major work required would be linking tram and train tracks at Tinsley, electrifying the five-and-a-half mile rail line between Tinsley and Parkgate, building the new Parkgate station, and constructing low extensions to platforms at Rotherham Central.

Barry Graham, of Northern Rail, which is likely to run the tram train service, said: "Five electric tram-train vehicles would be ordered, capable of operating on both networks. The frequency would be up to every 20 minutes."

He added although the scheme is being designed as a "pilot", the amount of investment in new infrastructure means it is likely to be permanent.
Existing trains on the mainline between Sheffield and Rotherham Central would be unaffected by the new service.

The service would use a freight line between Tinsley and Rotherham and only share a small section of track with conventional passenger trains between Rotherham Central and Parkgate.

South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive said the two proposed 'bus rapid transit' lines between Sheffield and Rotherham - via Meadowhall and Waverley - would still go ahead alongside the tram-train route.

David Young, of South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive, said: "Bringing the two systems of Supertram and trains together gives us a unique opportunity. If more people choose to use it than travelling by car, we can reduce congestion."

He added: "This would be a supplementary service alongside what operates already.

"It would offer a third new route between Sheffield and Rotherham. Bus rapid transit would cover different routes, serving the northern side of the Don Valley and the Waverley development to the east."

Network Rail said work is ongoing to find a type of tram-train compatible with both the Supertram and railway lines, which have different types of signalling, and to consider how electrification of the railway line would be carried out.

Detailed designs for Parkgate and Rotherham Central stations have also yet to be developed and would require planning permission.

[Steel City Suburb]

So will the new tram trains have the same branding/pricing as the normal supertram. Anyone know the routes the new trams will take?

[RichJay]

Originally Posted by Steel City Suburb

So will the new tram trains have the same branding/pricing as the normal supertram.

I was wondering about this. The Star article says that they are likely to be run by Northern. If they have a separate ticketing system then I think it will discourage some people from using it.

[Metrolink III]

Would imagine that there will be sperat ticketing, however, the Northern rail tickets would be valid on the traditional Supertram network.

[muddycoffee]

There does not appear to be many actual details about this, however I would guess that it would happen something like this.

1 The old freight line between tinsley viaduct and Rotherham Parkgate will be provided with overhead wires for a pantograph train.
2 The old freight line will be doubled along its whole length and joined to the supertram line at tinsley viaduct
3 New stations at rotherham central, meadowhall south and Parkgate will be constructed
4 New siding in sheffield possibly at cathedral or fitzalan square or castle square to form the sheffield terminus.
5 Short trams will run on a new route between central sheffield, Meadowhall, Don valley, Parkgate and Rotherham central.

[Metrolink III]

Suspect that the new tram-trains will use the same infrastructure as already exists.

On the LRTA mailing list today it has been suggested that the only heavy rail station that this pilot will include is Rotherham Central which will have one platform adjusted to allow low floored tram -trains.

They will not stop at any other station until they are on the existing infrastructure.

[muddycoffee]

The other thing I like about this scheme, is that potential for other Supertram network extentions become a possibility, especially along the sheaf valley, where a single line with passing loops could run along the empty trackbed alongside the main railway.
This could run right out to Dore station. There are still reserved tramstop sites all along the line for the supertram extension which never materialised.

[muddycoffee]

Originally Posted by Metrolink III

Suspect that the new tram-trains will use the same infrastructure as already exists.

On the LRTA mailing list today it has been suggested that the only heavy rail station that this pilot will include is Rotherham Central which will have one platform adjusted to allow low floored tram -trains.

They will not stop at any other station until they are on the existing infrastructure.

Yes I think there will be lots of revenue available from Rotherham people visiting meadowhall to work and shop. Especially as the journey will be much faster than driving or using the bus.

[RichJay]

Originally Posted by Metrolink III

Would imagine that there will be sperat ticketing, however, the Northern rail tickets would be valid on the traditional Supertram network.

This is what I meant. It would be stupid if you couldn't use tram-train tickets on the supertram and vice-versa.

[soupçon]

What's the definition of a tram-train? This plan will be similar to Sunderland Metro won't it? I wouldn't call that a tram-train.

[muddycoffee]

Originally Posted by soupçon

What's the definition of a tram-train? This plan will be similar to Sunderland Metro won't it? I wouldn't call that a tram-train.

Well our current supertrams are not really trams at all, they are light rail.

The idea of tram-train is that they have low floors so that they fit the format of the tram network and the passenger stops, but they have uprated chassis and equipment so that they can run on the local railway network.

Proper trains have to have safety and signal equipment as well as proper buffers so that they don't get crushed if they are touched by a proper train or a train buffer.

[MongMental]

Originally Posted by muddycoffee

Proper trains have to have safety and signal equipment as well as proper buffers so that they don't get crushed if they are touched by a proper train or a train buffer.

Maybe those big old diesel trains will receive a briefing on inappropriate behaviour in the modern work environment

[Bladerunner]

This really is excellent news.

Howevwe, it would be a big mistake if they tried to operate the new trams as a separate company.

The article says that "The service would use a freight line between Tinsley and Rotherham and only share a small section of track with conventional passenger trains between Rotherham Central and Parkgate".

Presumably this means they will be plying the same route as the current trams as far as Meadowhall, and not using the Sheff-Meadowhall rail line. If so, they should simply be branded as part of the Supertram network. Anything else would be totally confusing.

[Steel City Suburb]

Agreed.

The branding must be the same, the tickets must be the same on both networks, you shouldn't be able to tell the base system and the extended system from each other.

I wonder if the system will include the railway line what runs at the side of the tram system at the Centertainment stop.

If so, the ideal route would be; Rotherham Parkgate, Rotherham Central, Meadowhall south, Centertainment and then straight into sheffield on the train line.

If successfull the line would allow Sheffield to bid for more trams for more tram trains, allowing full use of the rail lines in Sheffield.

[lewisskinner]

Originally Posted by Steel City Suburb

If so, the ideal route would be; Rotherham Parkgate, Rotherham Central, Meadowhall south, Centertainment and then straight into sheffield on the train line.

No, that's precisely the opposite of what is proposed. The plan is that the tram will leave the train tracks at Meadowhall, and get onto the trams tracks, not the reverse

[Bladerunner]

Yep.

There are already non-stop trains running from Sheffield Centre to Meadowhall, and on to Rotherham. It would be daft to put trams on the same route.

The train-tram will use existing rail tracks between Meadowhall and Parkgate. It will allow people living in Rotherham access to all the tram stops to the east of Sheffield city centre without switching from bus or train to tram. And allow people in Sheffield to take the tram to stops beyond Meadowhall.

[MongMental]

Originally Posted by Bladerunner

Yep.

There are already non-stop trains running from Sheffield Centre to Meadowhall, and on to Rotherham. It would be daft to put trams on the same route.

Steel City Suburb isn't proposing Tram Trains on the heavy rail route between Meadowhall and Sheffield he was referring to the former Great Central route between Tinsley and Nunnery which at present does not have a local passenger train service.