daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 2nd, 2011, 08:20 AM   #1621
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,508
Likes (Received): 17832

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Different part of the city serve different roles, I don't think it's an urban planning disaster if it's designed that way. It's a clean and modern CBD, designed to be the headquarter of businesses, so a clean, sleek, and car friendly surrounding is preferred. There are plenty of dedicated pedestrian shopping streets around Shanghai, and I think a city like this warrant a dedicated CBD as well. Again, the only people walking those walkways are tourists, and they are there precisely to see this dedicated CBD.
This isn't an issue with making Lujiazui another Nanjing Road or pedestrian market. Vibrant doesn't necessarily mean pack the most number of people over a square km. The devoid grand boulevards of Pudong highlight a major urban planning dilemma - is the city for the people or for cars? What about the locals? Why would they rather spend time underground in a mall, crossing the street, than actually getting onto the street to grab a drink, get some exercise, and enjoy the weather?

We know the car-centric city does not work. That's American suburbia, which is a planning disaster of the 20th century. We know vibrant cities engage people at street-level, and it's not just tourists, but also locals. Mixed use also keeps streets alive day and night, and adds convenience as people can walk to get what they need, rather than jump into a car to do so. Lujiazui fails to engage people at street-level. Sure, it's great for cars to move around, but the city is ultimately for the people, and we need to find ways to build them so the inhabitants can enjoy a great quality of life.

Right now, there are quite a lot of barriers to even cross the street. If people can't do something as simple as that, and get sucked into malls all along the street, then I really wonder what exactly are planners trying to achieve.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 2nd, 2011, 11:57 AM   #1622
Rachmaninov
Registered User
 
Rachmaninov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
Posts: 3,188
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrooms View Post
Logo looks so much like HK's IFC?

Great building. When are they going to tear down the oriental pearl tower?
__________________
Rachmaninov no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2011, 02:57 PM   #1623
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,508
Likes (Received): 17832

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachmaninov View Post
Logo looks so much like HK's IFC?

Great building. When are they going to tear down the oriental pearl tower?
It was built by the same developer.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2011, 06:14 PM   #1624
Vrooms
threeyearson.
 
Vrooms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 9,676
Likes (Received): 1638

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachmaninov View Post
Great building. When are they going to tear down the oriental pearl tower?
I dont think they will..............It makes the skyline more iconic and is still drawing in loads of tourists.
__________________
🔥🚀
Vrooms no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2011, 12:03 AM   #1625
djm160190
Registered User
 
djm160190's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London, Paris
Posts: 570
Likes (Received): 763

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrooms View Post
I dont think they will..............It makes the skyline more iconic and is still drawing in loads of tourists.
I would love them to reclad it though! The concrete is getting stained and ugly!
djm160190 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2011, 12:26 AM   #1626
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,143
Likes (Received): 1734

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Different part of the city serve different roles, I don't think it's an urban planning disaster if it's designed that way. It's a clean and modern CBD, designed to be the headquarter of businesses, so a clean, sleek, and car friendly surrounding is preferred. There are plenty of dedicated pedestrian shopping streets around Shanghai, and I think a city like this warrant a dedicated CBD as well. Again, the only people walking those walkways are tourists, and they are there precisely to see this dedicated CBD.
A CBD would work even better with all other things integrated with it. In fact the other side of the river is no less of a CBD but has much more soul. If you ask office workers what they want, you'll find they actually want an environment where there's plenty of choice for lunch, after-work gatherings, where you can take a comfortable lunchtime stroll and where you can easily pick up some shopping on the way to the metro station / bus stop. A car frienly surrounding simply wouldn't work. Lastly, Pudong needs and deserves a mix-use pedestrian-friendly centre.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2011, 08:21 AM   #1627
Rise To The Top
Future CiE and Architect
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston/Holderness
Posts: 403
Likes (Received): 88

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
A CBD would work even better with all other things integrated with it. In fact the other side of the river is no less of a CBD but has much more soul. If you ask office workers what they want, you'll find they actually want an environment where there's plenty of choice for lunch, after-work gatherings, where you can take a comfortable lunchtime stroll and where you can easily pick up some shopping on the way to the metro station / bus stop. A car frienly surrounding simply wouldn't work. Lastly, Pudong needs and deserves a mix-use pedestrian-friendly centre.
Yes, but a completely fresh CBD is a complicated thing to do. Shanghai had the advantage of having farmland to build on. Building a CBD with existing infrastructure can be very very hard, especially when dealing with people who currently live in the area. The pedestrian friendly area wasn't part of the design because you can have that right across the river. The point of the Lujiazui development was to create an iconic CBD, with grand boulevards and parks, something rare to see in large cities nowadays.

From my knowledge and experience with people who work in tall buildings, few of them actually leave to eat, with the main reason being the inconvenience of having to leave the building (elevator times, transfers, signing/swiping in and out, etc). Most people that I know order and have it delivered, which allows for more time to actually eat. That and many buildings have restaurants and cafeterias built in for their workers. And even if that isn't the case in China, there are many many options in Lujiazui for lunch. Sure, not as many as there are across the river, but still a good selection.

As for your concerns about taking a lunch time stroll, look around. Lots of green space around these towers.
Rise To The Top no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2011, 09:11 AM   #1628
kix111
Registered User
 
kix111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Shanghai / Auckland
Posts: 6,014
Likes (Received): 2929

Actually a lot of people in Lujiazui choose Superbrand Mall to have their lunch, i see a whole bunch of employees there during noon.
kix111 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2011, 12:44 PM   #1629
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,508
Likes (Received): 17832

But what exactly are the grand boulevards and parks for when people don't use them? So the purpose is to merely show-off and not to enjoy?

I see green but not many people taking advantage of it, and given thousands of workers reside in the office buildings in this area, I'm surprised the public spaces aren't more heavily utilized.

And since nobody lives in that part of Lujiazui, it becomes a ghost town at night, whereas mixed use would encourage people to linger around after office hours.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2011, 01:30 PM   #1630
lukeit
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 98
Likes (Received): 3

cool building..
lukeit no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 09:15 AM   #1631
Rise To The Top
Future CiE and Architect
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston/Holderness
Posts: 403
Likes (Received): 88

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
But what exactly are the grand boulevards and parks for when people don't use them? So the purpose is to merely show-off and not to enjoy?

I see green but not many people taking advantage of it, and given thousands of workers reside in the office buildings in this area, I'm surprised the public spaces aren't more heavily utilized.

And since nobody lives in that part of Lujiazui, it becomes a ghost town at night, whereas mixed use would encourage people to linger around after office hours.
That is the idea behind a CBD though. Have you ever been in the financial district in NY or Boston during the weekends or later at night? They are usually deserted. Business areas are all about showing off and having the bling, as it is a way of expressing wealth, which is why the Bund is drastically different in appearance from Lujiazui. One encourages quick street level shoping and activity, where the other is a composition of spaces and negative spaces created by grand towers, parks, and boulevards, space that makes the viewer standback and look at these statues of wealth. There was a reason the Prudential Center and Hancock tower here in Boston were built where they are... there is nothing around to draw attention from them, especially the Hancock. The same idea is at play here.
Rise To The Top no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 09:00 PM   #1632
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,508
Likes (Received): 17832

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise To The Top View Post
That is the idea behind a CBD though. Have you ever been in the financial district in NY or Boston during the weekends or later at night? They are usually deserted. Business areas are all about showing off and having the bling, as it is a way of expressing wealth, which is why the Bund is drastically different in appearance from Lujiazui. One encourages quick street level shoping and activity, where the other is a composition of spaces and negative spaces created by grand towers, parks, and boulevards, space that makes the viewer standback and look at these statues of wealth. There was a reason the Prudential Center and Hancock tower here in Boston were built where they are... there is nothing around to draw attention from them, especially the Hancock. The same idea is at play here.
Actually, Midtown is a mixed-use area, and is still very lively at night. 42nd is quite busy and Times Square is within a short walking distance from the skyscraper office towers.

Business areas can express wealth, but they can also be lively areas where people gather. Who says they can't be both at the same time? The problem is when it comes to execution, many cities fail to achieve both.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 10:43 PM   #1633
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,501
Likes (Received): 6882

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise To The Top View Post
That is the idea behind a CBD though. Have you ever been in the financial district in NY or Boston during the weekends or later at night? They are usually deserted. Business areas are all about showing off and having the bling, as it is a way of expressing wealth, which is why the Bund is drastically different in appearance from Lujiazui. One encourages quick street level shoping and activity, where the other is a composition of spaces and negative spaces created by grand towers, parks, and boulevards, space that makes the viewer standback and look at these statues of wealth. There was a reason the Prudential Center and Hancock tower here in Boston were built where they are... there is nothing around to draw attention from them, especially the Hancock. The same idea is at play here.
That's not even remotely true. The architects had to modify the design of the Hancock Tower to reduce the impact on the nearby Copley Square, churches, and Boston Public Library.
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 11:45 PM   #1634
Rise To The Top
Future CiE and Architect
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston/Holderness
Posts: 403
Likes (Received): 88

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
That's not even remotely true. The architects had to modify the design of the Hancock Tower to reduce the impact on the nearby Copley Square, churches, and Boston Public Library.
Yes, it had to be modified, but they picked to build there for two reasons, one being that there was nothing there to compete with it, and the other being that they wanted to make a statement against the Prudential a mile down the road.
Rise To The Top no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2011, 09:49 PM   #1635
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,143
Likes (Received): 1734

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise To The Top View Post
That is the idea behind a CBD though. Have you ever been in the financial district in NY or Boston during the weekends or later at night? They are usually deserted. Business areas are all about showing off and having the bling, as it is a way of expressing wealth, which is why the Bund is drastically different in appearance from Lujiazui. One encourages quick street level shoping and activity, where the other is a composition of spaces and negative spaces created by grand towers, parks, and boulevards, space that makes the viewer standback and look at these statues of wealth. There was a reason the Prudential Center and Hancock tower here in Boston were built where they are... there is nothing around to draw attention from them, especially the Hancock. The same idea is at play here.
This kind of idea reflects precisely the worst kind of corporatism.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2011, 03:29 PM   #1636
deepblue01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 859
Likes (Received): 66

It may be a very sterile CBD, but thanks to the park and Oriental Pearl Tower, it attracts an abnormally high number of tourists to this area, an area which has little to none tourist attractions besides the underwater world, the park and the shopping centre and maybe a place to stare back at the Bund. Its unique towers draws a lot of tourists to this area as well, in other nations, an area like this would be disasterous
deepblue01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2011, 03:33 PM   #1637
Vrooms
threeyearson.
 
Vrooms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 9,676
Likes (Received): 1638

Quote:
Originally Posted by djm160190 View Post
I would love them to reclad it though! The concrete is getting stained and ugly!
Yeah it could use a good paint job or like you said recladding.
__________________
🔥🚀
Vrooms no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2011, 06:07 PM   #1638
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,508
Likes (Received): 17832

By 知秋者 from a Chinese photography forum :



__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2011, 08:25 AM   #1639
Oasis-Bangkok
From Zero to Hero !!
 
Oasis-Bangkok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 15,723
Likes (Received): 50830

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
Oasis-Bangkok no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2011, 07:52 PM   #1640
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,143
Likes (Received): 1734

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepblue01 View Post
It may be a very sterile CBD, but thanks to the park and Oriental Pearl Tower, it attracts an abnormally high number of tourists to this area, an area which has little to none tourist attractions besides the underwater world, the park and the shopping centre and maybe a place to stare back at the Bund. Its unique towers draws a lot of tourists to this area as well, in other nations, an area like this would be disasterous
A non-sterile CBD needn't have any fewer or less iconoic towers, nor would it attract fewer tourists, and in fact quite the contrary.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
shanghai

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu