daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > London Metro Area

London Metro Area London Calling...



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 21 votes, 4.86 average.
Old November 7th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #881
gothicform
Bossman
 
gothicform's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: s****horpe
Posts: 30,773
Likes (Received): 3011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loathing View Post
I understand your opinion, but I don't think it's grounded in socioeconomic reality. You would hate living in the vast majority of the USA or Japan. I suppose you have a very different ideology to me.
i don't follow. the great thing about london is it has lots of open space - it's grounded in developments like canary wharf, it's grounded in ideas in the city that see towers smaller at the base... it's what makes london different from tokyo or paris... and yeah i'm primarily slagging off the abomination that are the shell centre plans. elizabeth house works much better.
gothicform no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old November 7th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #882
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,936
Likes (Received): 1936

but dont forget the Shell Tower and its collapsed blocks around it is just another example of ultimately lesser design due to compromised constraints laid down by height fear.

Maybe we would have ended up with a large Jubilee Gardens it it had been a full size tower? Even without that there is plenty of open space around here, the Jubilee Gardens and South bank.

The fundamental problem with South London as a whole particularly one step back from the river is that it lacks the urban density and clarity of the North. Generally South of the river is far too fractured with random estates, ill conceived patches of green or concrete, ugly road systems and poorly developed building plots.

A mess which holds it back from being a successful part of central London or even the tube map. Although dense by South London standards this development appears to have a certain clarity at the ground level and could be quite intriguing to walk through. If the route from Waterloo through this development and vice verse is clear and popular then it will be successful.

I walked along the raised walkway through Elizabeth House and the Shell tower sometimes traversing around it to that strange open wasteland between Elizabeth House and County Hall for a decade when it was open and it was hardly used as was the Shell Tower base landscaping and jubilee gardens and this was even before the London Eye and Royal Festival Hall revamp. Currently the most popular route is infact the far more dense urban path under the railway bridge and between the retail units and the side of the Royal Festival Hall. Its actually the pointless again ill conceived "open space" around the very Shell like block that blocks the route to Kings College from here sitting in front of the nasty roundabout that is the low point of this route.
potto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2012, 10:57 PM   #883
gothicform
Bossman
 
gothicform's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: s****horpe
Posts: 30,773
Likes (Received): 3011

perhaps i'm used to it but i find the shell tower itself works well... the proportions are nice and elegant. looking at old photos of what the public space looked like back when it was used and before it was left to run down that looks nice too. of course maintaining large amounts of public space if you're a private company can be expensive so why not just gradually shut it down to save money. i like the modernist aspiration that you build on a third of the site, and leave the other two thirds unbuilt.

i do agree about your general comments and i think that the height limit criticism can be applied to elizabeth house, and the shell centre project in particular. it's clear that someone wants X amount of stuff on the site, so they are doing it any way they can. if you can't build up, instead build out. if it were down to me i'd make building 1 taller and step it back from york road more, and i'd merge buildings 6 and 7 into one block and reduce the footprint. i think they are poorly resolved the way they stand together, i see no need for two towers there with a space between them (that's filled by the podium any way). why not do away with the gap and just stick them together with the elements stepping up to the shell centre? building 5 is particularly shocking in design, not least as it's supposed to be one of the most prominent blocks. sorry but it's boring, it's a slab that acts in my view more as a barrier. the current shell complex has the low rise buildings open up in a C shape towards the river, views from the thames are invited into the site. this is lost. this plot should have outstanding architecture on it, not bland rubbish. if you feel need to make up for lost apartments add a couple more floors to buildings 4a or 4b. 4a has a weird height in relation to 4b actually being 7 floors taller and 36 floors in total to the shorter 29. they look slightly out of scale to each other.
gothicform no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #884
menganito
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 275
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Expert View Post
Elizabeth House was approved last night 4 to 2 at Lambeth Town Hall. The footbridge removal was approved 5 to 1. It is probably off to the secretary of state now.

Can we have a seperate thread for the Shell centre discussion?

Wonderful news!!!

London is a fortunate city.
menganito no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #885
menganito
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 275
Likes (Received): 13

I think the title of this thread should be edited, shouldn't it?
menganito no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #886
Langur
Londinium langur
 
Langur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 9,089
Likes (Received): 832

I think this project will bring a major improvement, and I like Chipperfield's design. He's done about as well as anyone could given the constraints on the site, developer targets, etc. Does anyone know if they plan to start immediately?
__________________
"Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste; look well to each step; and from the beginning think what may be the end." Edward Whymper
Langur no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #887
BelgiumKanarie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 34

Approved?!
Great!!
BelgiumKanarie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #888
aphw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 129
Likes (Received): 2

So was this refused and then approved after all with a different design?
aphw no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 11:01 AM   #889
delores
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,135
Likes (Received): 176

EH at it again with their ridiculous assumptions. I'm amazed because they appose this but not the student accommodation just approved next to st Thomas's? madness

Quote from the architects journal:

English Heritage has written to DCLG seeking a review of Lambeth Council’s decision to approve David Chipperfield’s Elizabeth House redevelopment


The £600 million regeneration of the 1960s office block was approved in November despite the concerns of English Heritage, Westminster Council and UNESCO.

English Heritage had opposed the 132,000m² proposal – comprising a 29-storey mixed-use office tower and a residential block – on the grounds it could damage views from the nearby Westminster World Heritage site.

The heritage body in January wrote to the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) requesting the project be called-in. DCLG confirmed it was considering the request and has yet to make a decision.

DCLG had 21 days to consider the application but due to the application’s complexity made an extension to this time period on 28 January. A spokesperson said: ‘There is no time limit when an extension is made.’

In 2009, Allies and Morrison’s previous scheme for the site was turned down by former secretary of state John Denham following opposition from English Heritage.

In a statement, English Heritage said: ‘Though the scheme would bring welcome improvements to the area around Waterloo Station, in our view, this benefit is far outweighed by the damage it would cause to London’s historic environment, particularly to buildings and areas which are of international or national importance.

It added: ‘English Heritage believes that significant harm would be caused to the setting and views from the Westminster World Heritage Site and the proposal would intrude heavily on views of Big Ben, one of London’s most easily identifiable and much-loved landmarks and a Grade I listed building. The impact on the setting and views of the Grade I listed Royal Festival Hall is also of serious concern and the proposed development would appear visibly attached to the tower of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office if viewed from the Blue Bridge in St James’s Park.’

Approving the scheme, Lambeth Council had said the regeneration project’s substantial benefits to the area and local economy made it ‘impossible to refuse’. The mayor of London has since backed the approval.
delores no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 11:29 AM   #890
london lad
Registered User
 
london lad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: London
Posts: 8,764
Likes (Received): 485

Typical EH. On the one hand they can barely afford to continue with Blue Plaques but are quite prepared to flog a dead horse and spent another huge amount of money on a PI.

Really is the last throw of the dice for them anyway. If the DCLG tell them no then the Shell centre redevelopment can’t be stopped either. I’m sure Simon Jenkins is sharpening his quill for one last rally in his next ES column.
london lad no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 11:45 AM   #891
delores
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,135
Likes (Received): 176

This development is a massive improvement on the architecturally impoverished Waterloo area as you say the development in front is far more controversial. What about St Thomas's a disaster of a hospital right opposite the houses of parliament, it's appearance ruins the setting of Westminster, this does not.
delores no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 12:13 PM   #892
No Expert
Registered User
 
No Expert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manama
Posts: 114
Likes (Received): 17

Exactly. The 29 storey tower has been placed at the northern end of the site which has minimal impact on Westminster, the same reason why the Shell Centre is clustering their towers at the northeast corner of the site. Unlike the Alies & Morrison scheme where they tried to minimise impact of their southern tower by making it triangular in plan. The main visual impact of the David Chipperfield scheme is at Somerset House.
No Expert no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 12:43 PM   #893
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,936
Likes (Received): 1936

I thought they had run out of money. Westminster Council AND Unesco involved yet again, suspicious.

I didn't hear any one of them complain or even make a whimper when the Parliament Square improvements were scrapped. Odd

So not sure what this "setting and views of the Westminster World Heritage Site" is all about exactly.

Where do they think people view The Houses of Parliament and Westminster Abbey from? Clue... it is certainly not from the middle of the square.
potto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 12:59 PM   #894
No Expert
Registered User
 
No Expert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manama
Posts: 114
Likes (Received): 17

They have protected views. One is from parliament square looking towards St Stephens Tower. From about here

http://goo.gl/maps/LzE7U

At the moment you can see blue sky and the country hall roof and that’s how EH want it to remain. With the proposed tall towers to the north end it starts to eat into the blue sky.

I saw one A&M proposal where their southern tower appeared to be joined to St Stephens Tower - mad.
No Expert no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 02:14 PM   #895
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,936
Likes (Received): 1936

but you cant get onto Parliament Square. What is the point of such a view?
potto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 02:16 PM   #896
.Adam
Registered User
 
.Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 1,856
Likes (Received): 176

Haha it is a bit rich to protect views from a roundabout with some grass on it, which you have to risk your life to get too.. But if you survive I'm sure the views are wonderful. Like being in a carousel of traffic! Picture perfect.
.Adam no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 02:16 PM   #897
.Adam
Registered User
 
.Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 1,856
Likes (Received): 176

I seriously hope the get told where to go, what right do they have to tell Lambeth what they can or cannot build when it's been approved at ever turn.
.Adam no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 02:37 PM   #898
DarJoLe
Registered User
 
DarJoLe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 17,063
Likes (Received): 1725

What's the Mayor's opinion and will the Evening Standard be running a new campaign against tower blocks destroying London's heritage and people who support them?
DarJoLe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 02:41 PM   #899
No Expert
Registered User
 
No Expert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Manama
Posts: 114
Likes (Received): 17

I don’t always agree but I actually do agree with EH on this particular issue and view. There is another protected view from the footway by Westminster Abbey where plenty of tourists take their photos from. Eating into the blue sky above County Hall does detract from the soar of St Stephens Tower and make it appear stumpy (which it is), it also detracts and it makes it difficult to see the Gothic Revival detail of the tower. It is exactly the reason why the Waterloo Station air rights scheme will never get off the ground.

You should be able to see all the impacts to the view on the planning application on Lambeth’s site.
No Expert no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2013, 02:52 PM   #900
.Adam
Registered User
 
.Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 1,856
Likes (Received): 176

The same tourists who come to see the Gherkin, the London Eye, the Shard, London is city that is adapting and changing, this would have more legitimacy if the area around parliament square wasnt a national embarrassment. Traffic blocked streets filled with pollution and the most dismal square around... That's the real problem not some glass which you can barely see.
.Adam no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu