Boutique Condos (Phase II) | Complete | 35 st | 109 m | Entertainment District

[current]

August 27

Looking west, phase 2 excavation in the foreground and in the background phase 1 is now at ground level.
image hosted on flickr


Phase 2 on the left and phase 1 is on the right.
image hosted on flickr


Looking south at phase 1 with RBC rising in the background.
image hosted on flickr

[emagdnim]

very nice!

[Taller, Better]

Here's what's happenin':

[Jasonzed]

[Elkhanan1]

Great shot. Boutique FINALLY seems to be moving. And RBC in the background's looking great.

[Jasonzed]

[isaidso]

I have to admit to preferring the shorter original. This stretched version isn't as well thought out, as one might expect. Is it correct that two 47 tower twins may rise on the lot directly to the north of this?

[Jasonzed]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I have to admit to preferring the shorter original. This stretched version isn't as well thought out, as one might expect. Is it correct that two 47 tower twins may rise on the lot directly to the north of this?

Here is a visual for reference:

[isaidso]

I'm glad they had the sense not to build another stump downtown. The once numerous parking lots are rapidly getting developed. Soon they'll have to start demolishing 20 floor towers to build 60 floor towers. The 40+ floor tower has become fairly standard for downtown.

It will be interesting to see if we also start to see a trend towards the addition of multiple floors to old office towers. Another 20 floors added to FCP would be nice.

[Elkhanan1]

Let's just get through this recession (and possible depression) in one piece and then we'll see

[isaidso]

I recognize that sentiment with some people, but a recession shouldn't mean we stop paying attention to smart long term planning. Scarce land must be saved for suitably sized buildings that meet the city's long term needs. If demand doesn't exist right now for a 47 floor tower, the building shouldn't be built at all. If they want to build a scaled down 20 floor condo, it's preferable that it gets built somewhere else, not here.

[valantino]

There's plenty of space to intensify without having to resort to 47 storeys not to mention our infrastructure will never be able to support block after block of 47 storey towers. Unless, you mean Cityplace point towers on podium type density which doesn't feel like downtown at all.

I wish every surface lot to be gone as soon as possible even if it means a gated private parkette (to the tune of which Canada Life Tower replaced) or one storey retail in the meantime .

It's unfortunate the city's vision for the neighbourhood has been thrown into the crapper by the OMB approving towers that overshadowing not only human scaled heritage structures but everything else. Monty Burns would be happy.

[valantino]

I'm glad they had the sense not to build another stump downtown. The was numerous parking lots are rapidly getting developed. Soon they'll have to start demolishing 20 floor towers to build 60 floor towers. The 40+ floor tower has become fairly standard for downtown.

It will be interesting to see if we also start to see a trend towards the addition of multiple floors to old office towers. Another 20 floors added to FCP would be nice.

This is not the Hong Kong forum (and the economics there still make it cheaper to demolish 40 storeys than to top up.)

The 40+ floor tower has become fairly standard for downtown.

For the past two years maybe. Certainly not enough time to be declared a standard. However, it will be interesting to see the reactions of developers in this declining market. Maybe we'll see a 100 floor proposal just yet. Some of them paid a mint for some of these parking lots to only, in all likelihood, see sales revenues per square foot slashed. The only solution beside sitting pat or unloading at a loss is to build taller, better.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by valantino

This is not the Hong Kong forum (and the economics there still make it cheaper to demolish 40 storeys than to top up.)

It's cheaper to demolish? What about Mount Sinai and that condo tower in Yorkville? I've also seen a huge addition to a tower in Chicago facing Millenium Park.

I talked to my friend at ORC about this, and he seemed to think that Toronto would eventually start to see more floor additions here. We're certainly not Hong Kong, but there are already precedents for this type of trend.

Originally Posted by valantino

For the past two years maybe. Certainly not enough time to be declared a standard. However, it will be interesting to see the reactions of developers in this declining market. Maybe we'll see a 100 floor proposal just yet. Some of them paid a mint for some of these parking lots to only, in all likelihood, see sales revenues per square foot slashed. The only solution beside sitting pat or unloading at a loss is to build taller, better.

It's subjective, for sure, but perceptions have a tendency to lag reality. I thumbed through most of the towers that have been built in Toronto over the last few years, and there's definitely been a huge height increase for the average building relative to even 5 years ago. We are going through a boom, but there's still a case to be made for the experience of the last few years having a lasting impact on what locals consider tall.

In 1980, I thought that 20 floors was tall. In 1990, I thought that 30 floors was tall. In 2000, I thought that 40 floors was tall. Today, I consider 50 floors tall. 40 floors? Nope. 40 floor towers are all over the place. When presented with a 40 floor proposal, I rarely fixate on the height because it's not unusual any more. I'm more inclined to concentrate on other features.

[Elkhanan1]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I recognize that sentiment with some people, but a recession shouldn't mean we stop paying attention to smart long term planning. Scarce land must be saved for suitably sized buildings that meet the city's long term needs. If demand doesn't exist right now for a 47 floor tower, the building shouldn't be built at all. If they want to build a scaled down 20 floor condo, it's preferable that it gets built somewhere else, not here.

I meant to be tongue-in-cheek rather than critical. Got to keep up the levity on these boards.

[valantino]

It's cheaper to demolish? What about Mount Sinai and that condo tower in Yorkville? I've also seen a huge addition to a tower in Chicago facing Millenium Park.

There are always exceptions. Mount Sinai simply can't be demolished. The condo tower in Yorkville is being built atop a heritage designated building and has a high price point where the additional costs of renovation don't really matter. IIRC, the Chicago building's structure was originally built to handle the additional floors.

I thumbed through most of the towers that have been built in Toronto over the last few years, and there's definitely been a huge height increase for the average building relative to even 5 years ago.

I'm well aware of it as a hobby statistician and building database editor over at SSP. However, I view this as more of a worldwide phenomenom coinciding with unprecedented speculation in real estate that has rather abrupty come to an end. The averages will go down. Developers don't stop building just because demand isn't there for 40 storey towers. Of course, there are still sites where its forty storey in order to break even. (unless they switch to commercial)

[isaidso]

I was looking at perceptions of what constitutes tall more from the public's point of view rather than a developer's. I realize that developers don't stop building simply because demand isn't there for a 40 floor tower, but a city certainly can dictate what goes where. The City's urban planners certainly do enforce guidelines like this for different areas of the city. I'm advocating that they should enforce strict minimums in parts of the core.

It won't stop 20 floor buildings from being built, but it will save increasingly scarce downtown lots for when demand does dictate a 40 floor tower.

[valantino]

There are minimums in place. They just haven't come into play. It's been quite rare for developers not to apply to exceed the maximums allowed. I strongly disagree with respects to the scarcity of potential downtown development sites. Complete blocks are few and far between and this boom of the past 8 years hasn't made much more than a sizable dent due to the density being built as well as the highrise market outside the downtown. And as I've hinted to before, height isn't much of a factor anyways. Most of the recent downtown projects are in the FAR 12 - 18 range whether they are 40 storeys or 20.

[Jasonzed]

[CanadianSkyScraper]

thanks for the updates