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Old August 17th, 2011, 06:05 AM   #2981
shpirtkosova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenNL View Post
They could've made the normal lanes smaller(and emergy lane bigger). A matter of drawing the white line. But I think there is still enough space to pull to the side in case of an emergency. (a lot of bridged dont have emergency lanes, it's not a standard).
This is the problem with Albanians, its not the standard so we won't implement it.... how about this one? Why not try and do something to improve or maybe just be better than rest and stop this "we must stay below or within standards" mentality...

Considering the final pricetag of this motorway, to add hard shoulders on the bridges would not be such a major cost. If a job is worth doing, do it the best you possibly can. Why should we never step above the standards and aim for something more than our European neighbours?

Anyway I shall leave it at that since the motorway overall is one of the best in Europe and this includes the scenery offered too.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 08:34 AM   #2982
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Let's get back on topic(more pictures please).

Last edited by StevenNL; August 17th, 2011 at 09:32 AM.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 06:42 PM   #2983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Holly View Post
You still haven't defined what a standard shoulder is in order to point out substandard shoulders.
2,50 metres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertEagle091 View Post
I find it interesting how you could accurately measure something simply by looking at it in a video..you must have special eyeballs which can measure distance...Now since youre the expert on road construction and highway engineering do yourself a favor and read this part of this article about the highway when it was first inagurated. Enjoy

"The Motorway is designed as dual carriageways of 2 X 3.75 m, supplemented with 2.0 m emergency shoulder lanes. The major work items comprise 21 million cubic meters of excavation, 8.5 million cubic meters of earth filling, 0.6 million cubic meters of concrete and shot crete, 1.0 million tonnes of subbase and cement treated base and 0.45 million tonnes of asphalt for the construction of the motorway of 61 km long with all bridges, viaducts and two tubes each of 5.5 km in length, on the challenging topography of the Albania mountains terrain at an attitude over 1,000 m.

http://www.emportal.rs/en/news/region/92220.html
nope, i don't own any special abbilities nor i havn't said exact width of shoulder. but it isn't 2,50, you can see it at scene where the car is stopped. you don't have to have sharp sight to see what might be around 2,50, and what couldn't be.
if 2 metres wide shoulder is standard in Albania, let it be. i haven't made a noise abuot it.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 06:46 PM   #2984
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2.5 meter is substandard to me. If a truck gets a breakdown, it won't fit on it. Shoulders should be 3 - 3.5 meters. In Italy they have frequent SOS bays to make up for it. Shoulders in the Netherlands are 4 meters wide. This way they can still operate 4 lanes on one carriageway and do roadworks on the other one. It's faster and doesn't cause much delays.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #2985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
2.5 meter is substandard to me. If a truck gets a breakdown, it won't fit on it. Shoulders should be 3 - 3.5 meters. In Italy they have frequent SOS bays to make up for it. Shoulders in the Netherlands are 4 meters wide. This way they can still operate 4 lanes on one carriageway and do roadworks on the other one. It's faster and doesn't cause much delays.
i am also up to that opinion and i wanted to mention that even 2,50 is bad, but the tensions are quite high so i kept my mouth shut. Italian way of SOS niches is a great thing and all roads that want to be called motorways should have it.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 07:12 PM   #2986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
2,50 metres.



nope, i don't own any special abbilities nor i havn't said exact width of shoulder. but it isn't 2,50, you can see it at scene where the car is stopped. you don't have to have sharp sight to see what might be around 2,50, and what couldn't be.
if 2 metres wide shoulder is standard in Albania, let it be. i haven't made a noise abuot it.
Originally Posted by x-type
despite Radi, that shoulder is less than 2 metres wide. no illusion there. driving lanes seem to be standard 3,50 or 3,75.

You said that shoulder is less than 2 meters not 2.5...I showed you that it is indeed 2 meters...2.0 is the standard and from the photo anyone can see there is more than enough room for any vehicle to stop safetly.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 07:17 PM   #2987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
2,50 metres.



nope, i don't own any special abbilities nor i havn't said exact width of shoulder. but it isn't 2,50, you can see it at scene where the car is stopped. you don't have to have sharp sight to see what might be around 2,50, and what couldn't be.
if 2 metres wide shoulder is standard in Albania, let it be. i haven't made a noise abuot it.
Im curious what is the standard for motrways in your country? I dont know where youre from but you are welcome to post a photo of a motorway in your country with higher standards.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 07:26 PM   #2988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertEagle091 View Post
Originally Posted by x-type
despite Radi, that shoulder is less than 2 metres wide. no illusion there. driving lanes seem to be standard 3,50 or 3,75.

You said that shoulder is less than 2 meters not 2.5...I showed you that it is indeed 2 meters...2.0 is the standard and from the photo anyone can see there is more than enough room for any vehicle to stop safetly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertEagle091 View Post
Im curious what is the standard for motrways in your country? I dont know where youre from but you are welcome to post a photo of a motorway in your country with higher standards.
ok, i admit. i meant on 1,97 metres and i thought i has special abbilities, but now i see i don't have them.
my location is written in my data. here we have 2,50 hard shoulders and they suck. when i use them, i stop on the grass beside because i don't feel safe at hard shoulder. have i mentioned that our tunnels don't have hard shoulders, some motorways don't have shoulders on larger viaducts and there are no hard shoulders, but only SOS niches where there is present 3rd lane on ascents or descents? that all sucks big time.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #2989
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Well, I think that there is no internationally set standard for motorways. There are only nationally set standards for motorways.

What is common for most (perhaps all) national standards (for motorways), as much as I know, is that a road to be qualified as a motorway has to have two divided carriageways with at least two lanes in each direction, with emergency lanes, limited access and with grade-separated intersections.

In different countries, there are different standards for lane width. In Albania, obviously, driving lane in a motorway has to be at least 3.75 m wide, while, for instance in Netherland “usually is” 3.5 m wide. In Norway standard for driving lanes in motorway is 3.5 m.

Speed limit in motorways in Poland is 140 km/h (can someone confirm this?); in Croatia 130 km/h; in Spain and in Netherlands is 120 km/h; in Albania is 110 km/h while in Norway is 100 km/h. In some autobahns in Germany there is no limit;

Emergency lanes in Spanish motorways (autopistas) are 1.5 meters wide. But, in Spain autopistas must have another 1 m wide lane in the left side of carriageways!

Conclusion: there are different countries with different motorways standards set.

Motorway Fushė Krujė – Milot in Albania has 3.75 m wide driving lanes + 2.5 m wide emergency lanes, while motorway Rėshen – Kalimash (towards Kosovo) has 3.75 m wide driving lanes + 2.0 m wide emergency lanes. Both have grade-separated intersections and divided carriageways. Both are qualified by Albanian government as motorways.




References:


For SPAIN

Quote:
Originally Posted by diegogalban View Post
In Spain:

Autopista

National autopista: A-xx, National tolled Autopista: AP-xx
Autonomous autopistas: Galicia: AG-xx, Castilla y León: A-xxx, Cataluńa: C-xx, Aragón: ARA-A-x, Canary Islands: TF-xx or GC-xx, Madrid: M-xx

The Autopista, has at least 2x2 lanes, with different grade crossings, or interchanges, and controlled access. The width of the lanes is 3,5 meters, hard shoulders: 1,5 meters (the right ones), 1 meter (the left ones).
Only autonomous or older autopistas are free, all newer ones are tolled.
Max speed: 120km/h
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=161




For NORWAY


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElviS77 View Post
AADT 4-8,000 speed limit 80/90 kph: 10 m - 1+3.5+1+3.5+1 (no guard rail, only wide midsection).
AADT 12-20,000 speed limit 100 kph: 19 m - 1.5+3.5+3.5+2+3.5+3.5+1.5
AADT 20,000+ speed limit 100 kph: 22 m - 3+3.5+3.5+2+3.5+3.5+3
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=163



For NETHERLANDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Netherlands

SW (Stroomweg) (highest category)
An SW is the highest road category in the Netherlands, and are divided in national stroomwegen, and regional stroomwegen. They are intended to be high speed roads.

National stroomwegen are usually motorways, which have grade-separated intersections, are prohibited for slow or non-motorized traffic and have a speed limit of 100 or 120 km/h. The lane width is usually 3.5 m. They always feature an emergency lane.
Regional stroomwegen are expressways, but there are few expressways which have motorway-standards. They can be 2x2, but often lack a shoulder. The speed limit is 100 km/h or lower. They can also feature only one lane per direction, and do not always feature a median.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=152
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Old August 17th, 2011, 07:56 PM   #2990
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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
ok, i admit. i meant on 1,97 metres and i thought i has special abbilities, but now i see i don't have them.
my location is written in my data. here we have 2,50 hard shoulders and they suck. when i use them, i stop on the grass beside because i don't feel safe at hard shoulder. have i mentioned that our tunnels don't have hard shoulders, some motorways don't have shoulders on larger viaducts and there are no hard shoulders, but only SOS niches where there is present 3rd lane on ascents or descents? that all sucks big time.
Hmm..I have seen buses stop on 2.0 meter shoulder lanes with no problem though some people just need that extra room to feel safer from oncoming traffick I guess. There are also other factors to consider, a 2x2 motorway doesnt require more than 2.0m like a 3x3 or 4x4 would. At least here in the U.S thats how it is most 2x2 freeways are 2 meters wide while more lanes have larger shoulders...another factor is the difficult mountainous terrain you have to blast through in order to make wider shoulder lanes etc and last the population of the area and the traffick volume is the main factor to build those dimensions of a motorway like this one.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 08:09 PM   #2991
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Originally Posted by DesertEagle091 View Post
Hmm..I have seen buses stop on 2.0 meter shoulder lanes with no problem though some people just need that extra room to feel safer from oncoming traffick I guess.
that's impossible. Neoplan buses are exactly 2,5 metres wide. Volvos and Setras are 2,55.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #2992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Shoulders in the Netherlands are 4 meters wide. This way they can still operate 4 lanes on one carriageway and do roadworks on the other one. It's faster and doesn't cause much delays.
Doesn't seem like that to me.

A29







A15






Last edited by Buddy Holly; August 17th, 2011 at 09:02 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 09:24 PM   #2993
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Come on, you don't have more representative examples than that? Many tunnels don't have full shoulders.

These are modern shoulders.
image hosted on flickr

A2 Abcoude-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr
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Old August 17th, 2011, 10:18 PM   #2994
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Can we go back to Albania?Thnx in advance.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 10:51 PM   #2995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Come on, you don't have more representative examples than that? Many tunnels don't have full shoulders.
But see, you just proved my point: there's no standard, at least not in practice. And it's not just tunnels, as the photo below demonstrates

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Old August 17th, 2011, 10:57 PM   #2996
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Well, motorways were built in different eras, and not all of them have been updated to modern standards, especially because shoulder width isn't exactly the most important item. For instance the motorway in that photo has been that way since the mid-1970's. It was constructed with 2x3 lanes already in 1975.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 11:43 PM   #2997
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Chris, that's a highly populated urban area.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 08:49 AM   #2998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
that's impossible. Neoplan buses are exactly 2,5 metres wide. Volvos and Setras are 2,55.
Do you think they would be dumb enough to make shoulder lanes not wide enough for buses and trucks to stop on?...The width of the shoulder lane varies throughout the entire highway..in some places its wider and some its narrower.

Last edited by DesertEagle091; August 18th, 2011 at 08:56 AM.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 01:36 PM   #2999
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What you guys here seem to forget is that Albania only 15 years ago virtually had no motorway or expressway network at all and was in a very poor condition... Albania never had the chance to develop road networks like western Europe did, the crazy leader that we had was too busy building bunkers and making his army strong to protect against possible invasion from Greece and western Europe back in the communism days. For what Albania has achieved up to now should be a key example of how to bring up a country from virtually nothing. Albania has built a 170km motorway which is more than what a country like Romania had in total (probably 5-6 times the size) 2-3 years back and you guys come here to cry about the hard shoulder. Get over yourselves guys. Stop posting pictures of motorways which are not in Albania because this is ruining the purpose of the thread.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 02:20 PM   #3000
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As someone said, hard shoulders, and many other elements on those roads depend on the area where they are constructed.

Here is some part of motorway in the flat land between Tirana and Lezha, hard shoulders seem to be wide enough to park the car, leave your doors wide open and do some push-ups on the way .

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