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Old November 29th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #3481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirtkosova
Illyrian, I have been in Albania and driven up and down the country, I have also driven throughout many European countries. I think I am capable of identifying problems and giving reasonable opinions. I can assure that Albania does not have a motorway network. Most of the roads which the government in Albania calls "autostradė" are not what you would internationally call a "motorway". The only international motorway that currently exists in Albania is the 61km stretch between Rrėshen Kalimash of the A1. Even that part of the motorway has a few flaws including the lack of lighting at junctions and the motorway not being closed to public.
Dude nobody cares! You're the same person that trolled the Serbia thread just a few days ago! I know you got to change threads in order not be labelled as a troll and being possibly banned, but for the love of god spare us your explanations. I know you're an expert and know it all, but if you like to share your "wisdom" please do it with people that are interested in it and don't wreck the thread with your BS! Send an PM to Illyrian patriot if you'd like to reply.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #3482
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Quote:
I think I am capable of identifying problems and giving reasonable opinions
Good for you , i would suggest that you start from kosova . There is plenty of room there for your 'talent '

A2 is a motorway , you like it or not . A3 ( Tirane-Elbasan) is being constructed as well and is gonna finish in less than 1 year .

That makes A1 ( 61 km ) , A2 ( 34 kms ) , A3 ( 36 kms) a total of 130 kms of motorway network .

There is also a network of aproximately 250 kms of expressways .

It is not much , but given the fact that 95 % of it has been constructed the last 7 years i think it is a preety impressive number for such a small state .
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:13 PM   #3483
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Could you please tell me your definition of " a motorway network " and the work " network " itself?
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:17 PM   #3484
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Emergency lanes are indeed a bit narrow; does anyone know their width? I'd say about 2 m. In Slovenia and many other countries it's 2.5 m, probably similar also on the Albanian A1 (but sometimes we don't have emergency lanes at all, just emergency stops every few hundred meters).
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:17 PM   #3485
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No .
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:34 PM   #3486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Emergency lanes are indeed a bit narrow; does anyone know their width? I'd say about 2 m. In Slovenia and many other countries it's 2.5 m, probably similar also on the Albanian A1 (but sometimes we don't have emergency lanes at all, just emergency stops every few hundred meters).
If i am not mistaken it is 2.5 m and not 2 . But even so i fail to see why this minor detail would make someone say that is not a motorway .

The definition of a motorway is this : a main road for fast-moving traffic, having limited access, separate carriageways for vehicles travelling in opposite directions, and usually a total of four or six lanes US names superhighway .

Speed limit of 110 all the way , 4 lanes plus 2 emergency , limited access . It has been categorized by the albanian national authority as a motorway .

I fail to see why someone would deny this fact ?
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #3487
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Speed limit of 110 all the way , 4 lanes plus 2 emergency , limited access . It has been categorized by the albanian national authority as a motorway .

I fail to see why someone would deny this fact ?
Again you are wrong. Motorways are categorised on having a 'controlled' acess. Limited acess refers to the closed infrastructure to stop farm animals and people walking getting acess to the motorway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illyrian_Patriot View Post
No .
OK I can tell you that the width of the emergency lanes on the Rrėshen Kalimash A1 is 2m, that is barerly adaquate considering there is planty of logistic traffic and trade between Kosovo and Albania. The A2 seems even less, I doubt you can safely fit a car within that space. This is my point, you have no idea about the dimensions of the current existing motorway in Albania yet you still feel the need to accuse me of trolling the forum when I give valid opinions basd on facts. I understand your national patriotism and pride but without fellow Albanians debating and having different views and opinions on national matters we can never succeed as a nation.


I am just angry because Albanians deserve a much better motorway than this. Everything being built in Albania is a " miss and go" scenario where things are not carefully planned.

Last edited by shpirtkosova; November 29th, 2012 at 10:47 PM.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:40 PM   #3488
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FWIW, looks like a motorway to me.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #3489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirtkosova View Post
Again you are wrong. Motorways are categorised on having a 'controlled' acess. Limited acess refers to the closed infrastructure to stop farm animals and people walking getting acess to the motorway.
Yes i am wrong , the dictionary is wrong , everyone else that says that is a motorway is wrong .

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/motorway , Please contact them to change the definition , obviously you know much more than all of us .

I surrender , will you stop trolling now ? Seriously .

I know you are happy that you got some kms of motorway in kosova with money from europe , but that does not mean that you have to go in every ballkan thread and break their/our balls ( trolling ) .
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Old November 29th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #3490
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Quote:
I am just angry because Albanians deserve a much better motorway than this. Everything being built in Albania is a " miss and go" scenario where things are not carefully planned.
Oh now you admit that it is a motorway ?!

Classical symptoms of trolling , confirming what you previously were denying .

Thank you for confirming that i was right . You obviously agree with me , so there's no reason why you should keep commenting on this thread anymore .

P.S this is a perfect motorway concidering the fact that it just serves 2 cities with a total population of 400,000 people ...
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Old November 29th, 2012, 11:10 PM   #3491
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I will not continue my debate with you any further as you are a little bit narrow-minded. You argue with me based on definitions you find on a dictionary. Let me suprise you with something, you will not be able to find common sense in a dictionary, no matter how hard you try. You cannot call a road a motorway if the "emegency lanes" are barerly 1.5 meters in length with uncontrolled acess in some places. I called it a "motorway" because its a motorway only by the definition used only in Albania. By international definitions, its a dual carriageway(expressway).

Last edited by shpirtkosova; November 29th, 2012 at 11:33 PM.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #3492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illyrian_Patriot View Post
If i am not mistaken it is 2.5 m and not 2 . But even so i fail to see why this minor detail would make someone say that is not a motorway .

The definition of a motorway is this : a main road for fast-moving traffic, having limited access, separate carriageways for vehicles travelling in opposite directions, and usually a total of four or six lanes US names superhighway .

Speed limit of 110 all the way , 4 lanes plus 2 emergency , limited access . It has been categorized by the albanian national authority as a motorway .

I fail to see why someone would deny this fact ?
it is not 2,50 definitely, it is max 2,00.
on the other hand if Albania classifies it as a motorway, than it is so. not all countries should have the same standards. for instance that road would be an expressway in Czech Republic or Poland, but we all know that there are roads classified as motorways even without hard shoulders.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #3493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
it is not 2,50 definitely, it is max 2,00.
on the other hand if Albania classifies it as a motorway, than it is so. not all countries should have the same standards. for instance that road would be an expressway in Czech Republic or Poland, but we all know that there are roads classified as motorways even without hard shoulders.
Exactly. This road is categorized as a motorway by Albanian authorities.

In Macedonia, also, there is a stretch of motorway without hard shoulder at all (from Petrovec to Veles).
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Old November 30th, 2012, 02:07 AM   #3494
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There is an EU standard for building motorways (as well as almost any other roads) and the Albanian A2 clearly didn't fulfill those requirements. I guess that's what shpirtkosova criticizes. The motorway part of A1 on the other hand fulfills those requirements and we will see what's about A3 soon. That EU standard is of course not binding to Albania and Albania could build its motorway as it wants to, but on the other hand Albania applied for membership in the European Union and wants to be member one day, so it wouldn't harm to already fulfill the standards...

A2 is of course an advantage compared to SH2 or SH4 (which are also both categorized as motorways by Albanian goverment) but surely a step backwards compared to A1 Rreshen-Kalimash. It should have been better - and shpirtkosova is right - in EU countries this wouldn't be called "motorway" when being newly built. It would be an expressway, nothing more.

This is of course different for already existing motorways, e.g. parts of the German A8 in Bavaria between Munich and the Austrian border near Salzburg or the A70 between IC Bayreuth/Kulmbach and IC Kulmbach/Neudrossenfeld. Those are old motorways built decades ago which are clearly inferior to the Albanian A2. But those will be rebuilt...

And one word to the "motorway network": the word "network" involves the word "net" and there is surely no net of motorways in Albania. There is one "real" motorway (A1), one "not so optimal" motorway (A2) and one currently built (A3). And those have no connections, so no network existing. Of course Albania has an expressway network! And that the development of the road network is impressive, is of course beyond all question - but this was not the question at all!
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Old November 30th, 2012, 02:17 AM   #3495
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Quote:
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There is an EU standard for building motorways (as well as almost any other roads)
What are you talking about? I haven't heard of anything like this.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 02:23 AM   #3496
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As stickedy says, the A2 can be compared to old motorways across Europe. But it especially reminds me about the motorway in Denmark. E47 is the famous one from Copenhagen to Rodby/Puttgarden. It is used to be 1 lane per direction but got rebuild to a motorway with 2 lanes. The emergency lane does not look to be that big compared to modern german motorway. And the same can be told about A2.
But as long as the road has controlled access through acceleration fields and deceleration, it can be called motorway in my opinion. The road also seem to be really straight so that enables high speed.

The only bad thing is the estetic choice on the info tables and the choosing of extra barrier in the middle. A simple one should be enough.
I am mentioning this because it makes it harder to see the landscape
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Old November 30th, 2012, 02:25 AM   #3497
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A2 is a motorway. EU standards are not applicable outside of EU.

By Turkish standards, half of motorways in EU would not be categorized as motorways, since in Turkey motorways have three lanes + emergence lane in each direction.

Again, a highway is motorway if local authorities have categorized that highway as a motorway..
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Last edited by Arbenit; November 30th, 2012 at 02:33 AM.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 03:32 AM   #3498
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What are you talking about? I haven't heard of anything like this.
Of course there is no single document where every detail of a motorway is specified, but many, many EU directives, EU regulations, European Norms and other documents which set standards or recommendations about nearly every detail of roads being built in the EU. That starts with the process of design, covers e.g. the used materials and possible colors and ends with curve radius and other details.

Here is one example: http://live.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/...S-SC1-384e.pdf

Or what's the cause in your opinion that motorways in the EU are looking more and more the same? Regardless if it's France, Germany, Greece or Bulgaria?
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Old November 30th, 2012, 04:32 AM   #3499
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UNECE is an organization of the UN, not EU. Motorways differ among EU members, f.e. Slovenia built a motorway without emergency lanes (A5) just 4 years ago. Now it's not allowed any more, but not because of EU.
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Old November 30th, 2012, 08:04 AM   #3500
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Quote:
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Here is one example

I looked at the example you provided and I did not find any information about a unified EU standard nor did I find any information about what are motorway standards.
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