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Old January 26th, 2010, 06:54 PM   #2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Owning most of the USA national debt as well as large amounts of foreign currency and low historic borrowing gives them the muscle, though their is the danger that it could build up debt eventually. They this month ordered domestic banks to cut back personal lending a bit because they were worried personal debt was rising quickly but on the other hand didnt want to curtail it completley and risk the 10%+ growth rate their economy is based around. If they went down to 2/3% growth like most western economies then they would be unable to finance their infrastructure investment from future tax revenues, the cutback in projects would lead to unemployment and yet more economic slowdown and potentially a depression. They need to maintain 10% growth rate just to balance the books.
I'd consider railway building (at least the core routes) pretty 'safe' investments. Railway infrastructure is generally not subject to price volatility like many other assets, and returns in ticket sales and business growth (as a result of increased mobility) is pretty much guaranteed.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 09:46 PM   #2022
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Though look at the Airport Maglev, only 20% of capacity being used and will never pay back even its construction cost, nevermind its running costs and interest payments.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 10:24 PM   #2023
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Though look at the Airport Maglev, only 20% of capacity being used and will never pay back even its construction cost, nevermind its running costs and interest payments.
Airport maglevs have never made economic sense to me, they appear to be testbeds of the technology and showing off to visitors what they can do. When the whole airport process takes over 2 hours (from arriving to getting into the air for an international flight) saving around 10 mins from downtown to the airport seems pointless. they will always have low ridership when there is a normal train that is considerably cheaper and if you start nearer the airport than the centre often take longer. Also they are hardly encouraging rail use by taking people to the airport.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 10:42 PM   #2024
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Though look at the Airport Maglev, only 20% of capacity being used and will never pay back even its construction cost, nevermind its running costs and interest payments.
that's not infrastructure... it's a tourist attraction.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #2025
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Though look at the Airport Maglev, only 20% of capacity being used and will never pay back even its construction cost, nevermind its running costs and interest payments.
That I agree with, although if the Maglev network were properly extended patronage could increase substantially. Certain projects are certainly show-pieces without much practical use, but the majority of the infrastructure investments undertaken in China in the recent years have been what was actually needed.
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Old January 29th, 2010, 01:51 AM   #2026
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Do you guys realize? China's railway development was even in Obama's state of the union address. He was asking "why China should have the fastest trains but not USA?". Interesting.. I guess advisers of Obama found Chinese stimulus to infrastructure was working nicely.
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Old January 29th, 2010, 03:56 AM   #2027
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Do you guys realize? China's railway development was even in Obama's state of the union address. He was asking "why China should have the fastest trains but not USA?". Interesting.. I guess advisers of Obama found Chinese stimulus to infrastructure was working nicely.
China's stimulus spending on high-speed rail hasn't even started yet, but Obama obviously knows the US can do better. On top of the 8 billion in the Stimulus package, Congress has set aside another 5 billion over the next 5 years. But more funding is probably coming I would suspect.
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Old January 29th, 2010, 06:27 AM   #2028
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Only 2 of that 8bn is actually being used on High speed lines. The rest is bringing existing lines up to European suburban speeds.
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Old January 29th, 2010, 07:39 AM   #2029
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Chinese bullet train producer to expand

Xinhua & other sources
Updated: 2010-01-28

A Chinese bullet train producer said Thursday that it is expanding production capacity to cope with the country's rising demand for high-speed railways. Wang Chenghui, deputy general manager of Tangshan Railway Vehicle Co Ltd , an arm of the Chinese locomotive giant China Northern Locomotive and Rolling Stock Industry (Group) Corp. (CNR), said the company would double its monthly production capacity in the first half of 2010 to eight bullet trains each with eight compartments.

The company is China's only maker of bullet trains with an average speed of 350 km per hour, or a maximum test speed of 394.3 km per hour.
It has produced 22 trains to serve the Wuhan-Guangzhou high-speed railway, which began operation in December last year. Another 20 trains are running on the Beijing-Tianjin line, which is China's first fast-speed rail line operational in August 2008. Wang said the company was developing new trains with average speed of 380 km per hour, so as to "reinforce its leading role in the world's high-speed train market."

Tangshan Railway Vehicles, located in Tangshan, a fast-growing industrial city in the northern Chinese province of Hebei, is one of high-speed railway-targeted passenger transportation equipment production bases selected by the Ministry of Railways. The company is responsible for the high-speed MU production project, one of the national key projects. The CRH3 "Hexie" MU made by the company has reached the advanced technological level of the global MU industry.

China's government has launched a major upgrading of the nation's railways. The Ministry of Railways announced in September last year it would build 42 high-speed passenger rail lines with a total length of 13,000 km in the next three years.

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Old January 29th, 2010, 10:18 AM   #2030
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Jan 28

Highlights on yesterday's trial run:

West China: Zhengzhou-Xi'an
Length: 505km
Max speed: 352kmph
Time: 1 hr 48 mins (reduced from 6+ hrs)
Cost: US$5.2 bln
Construction: 4 years
Official Opening: early Feb

1st high-speed railway in W. China ends trial operation

2010-01-28

Quote:


XI'AN: The first high-speed passenger railway in western China, which links Xi'an with Zhengzhou, finished trial operation Thursday, the designer said.

The trial train finished the 505-km journey in 1 hour and 48 minutes at a speed of up to 352 km/h, said Bai Cuncang, the railway's chief engineer.

The line will help shorten the travel time between the two major cities to less than two hours from current six hours, according to the China Railway First Survey and Design Institute.

Xi'an, capital of Shaanxi province, is home to the terracotta warriors. Zhengzhou is the capial of central Henan province.

The line, part of a major east-west railway artery between Xuzhou and Lanzhou, cost about 35.3 billion yuan (5.2 billion U.S. dollars). It includes a 79.7-km Weihe river bridge, the longest among existing bridges nationwide.

The timetable of formal operation is yet to be decided, Bai said.
(Xinhua)

Photos from forumers on 1st-day trial run



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Old January 29th, 2010, 12:34 PM   #2031
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Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
When the whole airport process takes over 2 hours (from arriving to getting into the air for an international flight) saving around 10 mins from downtown to the airport seems pointless. they will always have low ridership when there is a normal train that is considerably cheaper and if you start nearer the airport than the centre often take longer. Also they are hardly encouraging rail use by taking people to the airport.
Indeed. Which is why extending the maglev to Hangzhou is so important.

If people want to get from Hangzhou to an international flight, then it is rather slow to get from Hangzhou to Shanghai, then change trains to get to Pudong airport. One alternative is to go to Hangzhou airport and take a connecting flight to Pudong airport, then connect to the international flight. Another is to have direct flights from Hangzhou airport to international destinations. But both are costly and inefficient, because smaller planes must be used from Hangzhou than from Shanghai - several smaller planes will use more fuel to carry the same number of passengers than one big plane, and short hops are also inefficient.

It could be better if people can get on rails at Hangzhou, travel through Shanghai - those who wanted to reach Shanghai get off, people from Shanghai who want to reach airport get on - and then the train continues to airport. Without requiring change of train. This is how rail could compete against domestic flights into a hub.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 11:45 AM   #2032
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Indeed. Which is why extending the maglev to Hangzhou is so important.

If people want to get from Hangzhou to an international flight, then it is rather slow to get from Hangzhou to Shanghai, then change trains to get to Pudong airport. One alternative is to go to Hangzhou airport and take a connecting flight to Pudong airport, then connect to the international flight. Another is to have direct flights from Hangzhou airport to international destinations. But both are costly and inefficient, because smaller planes must be used from Hangzhou than from Shanghai - several smaller planes will use more fuel to carry the same number of passengers than one big plane, and short hops are also inefficient.

It could be better if people can get on rails at Hangzhou, travel through Shanghai - those who wanted to reach Shanghai get off, people from Shanghai who want to reach airport get on - and then the train continues to airport. Without requiring change of train. This is how rail could compete against domestic flights into a hub.
Hangzhou should get its own international flights. There is way more population to support international flights in Shanghai, Hangzhou, Ningbo area than say New York, Boston, Washington area. There is no need for maglev to Hangzhou. The maglev ticket is too expensive.
You can always take highspeed railway from Hangzhou to Honqiao hub in Shanghai and connect to international flights. That is why both Honqiao and Pudong should get their own international flights, so that the need for maglev or other types of transfers between them is not needed. Any type of transfer between the airports is inefficient and should be avoided.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 12:46 PM   #2033
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Hangzhou should get its own international flights. There is way more population to support international flights in Shanghai, Hangzhou, Ningbo area than say New York, Boston, Washington area. There is no need for maglev to Hangzhou. The maglev ticket is too expensive.
You can always take highspeed railway from Hangzhou to Honqiao hub in Shanghai and connect to international flights. That is why both Honqiao and Pudong should get their own international flights, so that the need for maglev or other types of transfers between them is not needed. Any type of transfer between the airports is inefficient and should be avoided.
But my point is, splitting flights between nearby airports is inefficient and should be avoided. Ground transfer, even maglev, would be more efficient and cheaper than connecting flights.

Maybe wheeled rails are better than maglev. But even then, it is necessary to have efficient and comfortable rail connections to and between airports.
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Old February 1st, 2010, 10:47 AM   #2034
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that's not infrastructure... it's a tourist attraction.
Indeed. And when the metro connections to Pudong and Hongqiao open in a couple of months, it will be used even less. It's an expensive white elephant that should never have been built - the money should have been used to build a proper railed high-speed connection between People's Square and the airport (which probably COULD have been built for the same cost as the Maglev).
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Old February 1st, 2010, 11:40 AM   #2035
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It's fun to ride it though
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 11:34 AM   #2036
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Old February 5th, 2010, 07:22 AM   #2037
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2015 China High Speed Rail

[IMG]http://i47.************/29m6a6d.jpg[/IMG]

http://i47.************/29m6a6d.jpg

Red Line - 300-350km/h
Orange (yellow) Line - 200-250km/h
Green Line - 160-200km/h

About half of the high speed rails will be in service in 2012.

Last edited by surfer123; February 8th, 2010 at 12:46 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2010, 04:44 PM   #2038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfer123 View Post
[IMG]http://i48.************/fjp11e.jpg[/IMG]

http://i48.************/fjp11e.jpg

Red Line - 300-350km/h
Orange Line - 250-300km/h
Green Line - 160-200km/h

About half of the high speed rails will be in service in the end of 2011.
HSR Taiwan - China
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Old February 5th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #2039
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Larger image?
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Old February 5th, 2010, 06:54 PM   #2040
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This is a great news that China is becoming a leader in the railway transportation.
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