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Old March 9th, 2010, 03:01 PM   #2101
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Geopolitically, StanLands have historically been the "Kosovo" of Asia. Wars started from here. The US's "big game" concentrated on here. The largest numbers of US troopers overseas are currently stationed in here, "fighting" the War On Terror of course. And a fool will tell you this is pure coinstance because of Bin Laden, a "superhuman" who can fence off trillion $ US milli budget and tens of thousands of modern armies for years And the US will allow China's energy lifeline pass through here without a trouble.

Yes, it is much faster than the sea lane. However, it's more unpredictable as well, as one can change sea route with navy escort when neccesary while one can't move railtracks at will and send PLA army abroad to escort trains. Any individual grouppie since then in the region can held China for ransom by controlling a tiny spot of the railway. Let lone hostile countries such as India and the US, even fully friendly pakistan can't control some of its religious groups to guarantee the safety of the HSR within its own border.

Economically, even an idiot can see that apart from a handful of sightseeing tourists, this multibillion dollar state-of-art project serves no more than a 2-way "silk road": Made-in-China in exchange for raw materials. But what are raw materials for in the end? A bulk of them are to be used to produce low-end products for export. This very project aiming to transport the raw materials to help China's export will inevitablely severely damage China's export itself in the long run, or immediately, since every country along the road would have more competitive advantages than China in doing so:

e.g. India, a potential low-end manufacturer competitor of China, with MUCH more of MUCH cheaper labour looking for a dollar-job, what stops them? Infrastrcture only!! Basic skill training, technology/finance required will be readily available in a sec supported by MNCs, even eletricity shortage of factories could be backed up by in-house generators. With this FREE state-of-art super high speed line built by China in India, I don't see why a big chuck of MNC toy manufacturers not moving to India, so for any other low-end manafactorer, so for any other country along the line. Yes, China is moving up the value chain, with 1.3 B populace however, a large % of them will be still depending on low-end jobs to make a living in teh forsseeable future. The project therefore economically benefits potential competitors much more than Chinese low-end producers.

China can build HSR inside China the more , the merrier. Yet to building it in stanlands and India? Morons!!! Then China can forget about recovering South Tibet for good! To counter NATO, China has already got SCO; to counter EU, an economic alliance with Japan and Korea will put East Asia on the top of the league table. China doesn't need to biuild a high speed StanLands to do either of the jobs!

The lunatic logic of the project is like US Navy proposes to sell its top engines, best missile tech and Nimiz-class aircraft carrier to Chinese PLA - its biggest competitor - it will never happen.

Japan depends more on raw material/energy import, and it had bullet trains long before 80s. Why Japan never has proposed since the 80s to build the best bullet train network across Northern China ( its biggest potential competitor ) to middle east for energy?? because it's a suicidal.

It's like one sticks his neck under his foes' feet and asks "what, you don't have a knife to cut me open? no prob. I will sell you the tech for building a knife; what, you don't have money to pay for it? no prob, as I'll loan you the money for free;...what you don't know how to copy the tech involved? hell, I'll build it for ya myself."

The people who are the happiest after this news are foes or competitiors of China, or just nutscases. The people who will suffer the most from the project are the low-end products manufactorers of China.

I can't believe my ears that the proposal came from Chinese side. As long as this is not a mis-reporting, standing at where we are with these disclosed info, I would send the one/ones in charge of generating this idea immediately to a psychaitric hospital for checkup, before formally charging him/them for stunning level of Corruptions involved in the project and High Treason as these are the only two motivations left, either of two deserves a bullet in the head!

Last edited by [email protected]; March 9th, 2010 at 03:44 PM.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 03:33 PM   #2102
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
I sure hope Chinese patriots can do a better job at spelling than both of you Talking about junior high dropouts...

If I need an entra secretary to pick up my typos, I'll give you a call for sure.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 03:35 PM   #2103
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Originally Posted by Gag Halfrunt View Post


As for Vietnam, it's not China that persuaded the country to switch to standard gauge. There is already a plan to build a high speed line between Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) with Japanese financing and Shinkansen technology.

Japan's proposal to build a high speed line in Vietnam is logically sound since Vietnam is not Japan's economic/ geopolitical competitor in any sense. One will never find that Japan proposes to build the same line for the US or Germany, no matter how profitable the deal is.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 04:39 PM   #2104
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Originally Posted by Scion View Post
Full article for the Asia-Europe HSR proposal (thnx hkhui)
I am speechless
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Old March 9th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #2105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Apart from millitary implications of the HSR in events of war ( particularly any invasion into Chinese heartland), this HSR line servces nothing but wasting money.
Quote:
HSR built by billions upon billions of Chinese hard-earned dollars could, and will, be easily sabotaged and disrupted at wish by no more than a 10$-worth suicide bomber, or a CIA operative just to be sure, along the line of any part within these 17 countries, 24/7 at a short notice.
How would a line that (according to you) is so easily disrupted facilitate invasion. (And by who?) You're not making sense.

Quote:
... Jewish States of America millitary machine alone would NEVER allow this Chinese High Speed Energy Lifeline come into operating in one piece.
I, I get it. You're nuts.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #2106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Geopolitically, StanLands have historically been the "Kosovo" of Asia. Wars started from here. The US's "big game" concentrated on here. The largest numbers of US troopers overseas are currently stationed in here, "fighting" the War On Terror of course. And a fool will tell you this is pure coinstance because of Bin Laden, a "superhuman" who can fence off trillion $ US milli budget and tens of thousands of modern armies for years And the US will allow China's energy lifeline pass through here without a trouble.

Yes, it is much faster than the sea lane. However, it's more unpredictable as well, as one can change sea route with navy escort when neccesary while one can't move railtracks at will and send PLA army abroad to escort trains. Any individual grouppie since then in the region can held China for ransom by controlling a tiny spot of the railway. Let lone hostile countries such as India and the US, even fully friendly pakistan can't control some of its religious groups to guarantee the safety of the HSR within its own border.

Economically, even an idiot can see that apart from a handful of sightseeing tourists, this multibillion dollar state-of-art project serves no more than a 2-way "silk road": Made-in-China in exchange for raw materials. But what are raw materials for in the end? A bulk of them are to be used to produce low-end products for export. This very project aiming to transport the raw materials to help China's export will inevitablely severely damage China's export itself in the long run, or immediately, since every country along the road would have more competitive advantages than China in doing so:

e.g. India, a potential low-end manufacturer competitor of China, with MUCH more of MUCH cheaper labour looking for a dollar-job, what stops them? Infrastrcture only!! Basic skill training, technology/finance required will be readily available in a sec supported by MNCs, even eletricity shortage of factories could be backed up by in-house generators. With this FREE state-of-art super high speed line built by China in India, I don't see why a big chuck of MNC toy manufacturers not moving to India, so for any other low-end manafactorer, so for any other country along the line. Yes, China is moving up the value chain, with 1.3 B populace however, a large % of them will be still depending on low-end jobs to make a living in teh forsseeable future. The project therefore economically benefits potential competitors much more than Chinese low-end producers.

China can build HSR inside China the more , the merrier. Yet to building it in stanlands and India? Morons!!! Then China can forget about recovering South Tibet for good! To counter NATO, China has already got SCO; to counter EU, an economic alliance with Japan and Korea will put East Asia on the top of the league table. China doesn't need to biuild a high speed StanLands to do either of the jobs!

The lunatic logic of the project is like US Navy proposes to sell its top engines, best missile tech and Nimiz-class aircraft carrier to Chinese PLA - its biggest competitor - it will never happen.

Japan depends more on raw material/energy import, and it had bullet trains long before 80s. Why Japan never has proposed since the 80s to build the best bullet train network across Northern China ( its biggest potential competitor ) to middle east for energy?? because it's a suicidal.

It's like one sticks his neck under his foes' feet and asks "what, you don't have a knife to cut me open? no prob. I will sell you the tech for building a knife; what, you don't have money to pay for it? no prob, as I'll loan you the money for free;...what you don't know how to copy the tech involved? hell, I'll build it for ya myself."

The people who are the happiest after this news are foes or competitiors of China, or just nutscases. The people who will suffer the most from the project are the low-end products manufactorers of China.

I can't believe my ears that the proposal came from Chinese side. As long as this is not a mis-reporting, standing at where we are with these disclosed info, I would send the one/ones in charge of generating this idea immediately to a psychaitric hospital for checkup, before formally charging him/them for stunning level of Corruptions involved in the project and High Treason as these are the only two motivations left, either of two deserves a bullet in the head!
Where on earth did you come up with the statements above???

By 2020, China will most probably be the overwhelmingly dominant economic and military power in Asia - with a number of technology leading multinationals. Even the Japanese economy will probably be 3-4x smaller than Chinas.

So if China strikes a deal with neighbouring countries to build railways in exchange for markets and resources that are desperately needed, so what? This will only bind those countries tighter to the Chinese economically as they are just so much smaller. It will also facilitate cultural and political influence in the region - which is still very much focused on the USA.

The major issues are to ensure that each project is profitable and also to persuade many of these countries that being closer to China is a GOOD thing for them.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #2107
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This will solidify China's economic and political control in Asia, and upgrade dozens of countries' infastructure as a side benefit. What's not to like? HSR from Europe to Asia, it sounds like science fiction, but with China (and only China), it could get done. Truly inspiring and awesome.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #2108
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What is the distance, by existing rails, between Beijing and Moscow via Urumqi and Almaty?
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Old March 9th, 2010, 07:23 PM   #2109
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
If I need an entra secretary to pick up my typos, I'll give you a call for sure.
Keep bragging about your patriotic secretaries. If I were you though, I'd spend more time reading and improving my English, and stay away from those "patriotic" postings. Patriotism is silly as it is, but if couched in half-baked english, it's downright embarrassing. But again, you wouldn't know.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 07:28 PM   #2110
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JOne will never find that Japan proposes to build the same line for the US or Germany, no matter how profitable the deal is.
Apparently, in addition to broken english and brash "patriotism", you also have the virtue of not knowing what you are talking about. Japan is quite keen to sell its N700 series to the US. For what other reason did the Japanese invite American officials, among others, to a ride on the N700?
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Old March 9th, 2010, 08:33 PM   #2111
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Apparently, in addition to broken english and brash "patriotism", you also have the virtue of not knowing what you are talking about. Japan is quite keen to sell its N700 series to the US. For what other reason did the Japanese invite American officials, among others, to a ride on the N700?

What, are you Indian???

Your desperate trolling posts made you sound like one as you probably really are, when you are so typically using "Illiterate Indian Bragging Protocol of the web" of keep posting 3 unrelated bullshit posts in a roll "complaining" ( , as if your "english", or shall we call it "Indilish", were any better in any sense) others' English (a barbarian language btw in its nutshell by origin and per see in comparison with highly cultured and refined Chinese), which you colonial white master left to you making you and your "soaper-power" call centre ilk so proud of at every turn! Pathetic, isn't it?

I might be mitaken on the way how you pretended trying to write English as a non-native speaker yourself when you'were "complaining", while I never have mistaken in identifying Indian "whiteman-wannabe" hypocrites from distance, as they stink the way you do.

Last edited by [email protected]; March 9th, 2010 at 09:23 PM.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 08:45 PM   #2112
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A demo video for my iPhone train schedule app

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Old March 9th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #2113
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@ Ariel74

Please don't talk about English. It is not the subject. If you can understand me that's what counts. If you don't, you can ask for clarification. Otherwise you are offtopic and not helping.

@ [email protected]

Building high speed trains to gain access to raw materials is not that bad deal for both sides. Isnt this what China is trying to do in Africa too? And where did you come up with building railroads in India? Article is about Central and South East Asia. None of the countries in these geography is a thread to China but very good trade partner.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 11:35 PM   #2114
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And where did you come up with building railroads in India? Article is about Central and South East Asia.
It is two articles. Similar, they have the same structure and repeat the same phrases, but each omits things included in the other. However, India is in both:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP/menuitem.2c913216495213d5df646910cba0a0a0/?vgnextoid=3890b823f5937210VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&vgnextfmt=teaser&ss=&s=News


China plans Asia-Europe rail network
High-speed routes to tap resources
Stephen Chen in Beijing
Mar 08, 2010


China is negotiating to extend its high-speed railway network to up to 17 countries, a mainland rail expert who has taken part in every major express line project said yesterday.
Wang Mengshu, professor at Beijing Jiaotong University and a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, said most of these countries were in southeast and central Asia. Most are inadequately developed but rich in mineral and energy resources, and the talks involve a trade of resources for technology.

Wang said China had proposed three high-speed railway projects to these countries, with negotiations already at the technical stage. One possible network involves Southeast Asia, connecting Kunming , Yunnan, with Singapore, with service through Vietnam, Thailand, Myanmar and Malaysia, though the exact routing is unclear.

Another network would start from Urumqi, capital of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. It would go through Central Asian countries such as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, and then possibly extend to Germany.

The third network would originate in Heilongjiang in the northeast and go north, cross Russia and aim for Western Europe.

These lines would be built using China's high-speed railway standard. The maximum speed would be 350 kilometres per hour, with the most economical operating speed 200km/h.

China had promised to provide the technology, equipment and high-speed trains, Wang said, adding that Beijing would even cover the construction cost for countries willing to give it natural resources.

For instance, Myanmar has agreed to offer its rich reserves of lithium, a metal with wide industrial applications, in exchange for financial backing on high-speed railway construction.

Central Asian and Eastern European countries, already pumping natural gas to China via pipelines, would receive substantial financial support. Iran, Pakistan and India are also in negotiations with China to build high-speed rail lines, he said.

China and Russia had already agreed to build a high-speed line across Siberia, he added.

However, there were some technical issues to be overcome, Wang said. For example, trains in Kyrgyzstan run on a narrower gauge than those in China.

China wants the high-speed trains through these countries to run on the same gauge as on the mainland. It has convinced Vietnam to abandon its domestic standard for the Chinese one, but some countries have not yet agreed.

Such issues have slowed negotiations, meaning some of the rail lines - even if agreements are reached - could be finished as late at 2025, Wang said.

"China's overseas high-speed rail projects serve two purposes. First, we need to develop the western regions. Secondly, we need natural resources," he said. "We foresee that in the coming decades, hundreds of millions of people will migrate to the western regions, where land is empty and resources are untapped.

"With the fast, convenient transport of high-speed trains, people will set up mines, factories and business centres in the west. They will trade with Central Asian and Eastern European countries.

"Meanwhile, resources from those countries will stream into China to sustain development. I call it high-speed rail diplomacy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2010/03/08/china-to-build-pan-asia-europe-17-country-rail-network-4328.html
Mar. 8 – China has announced plans to develop a three-pronged high speed rail network that will expand its own tracks to a further seventeen countries throughout Asia and stretch as far as Europe.

Wang Mengshu, a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, has said that China was in negotiations with several countries to develop rail networks developed to China’s national specifications, and that the network would be financed on the basis of trade for the technology.

The plans include Southeast Asia, with a network to run south from Kunming through Vietnam, Thailand, and Malaysia on the way to Singapore and west across to Myanmar and India.

A western network would run from Urumqi through Central Asia, including Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, possibly connecting through Pakistan, Iran, and Turkey through to Germany.

The third spur would leave Heilongjiang, cross Mongolia, Russia and head west across Siberia on the way to Europe. China and Russia have already agreed to build a high speed rail line across Siberia.

However, logistics problems still have to be worked out. Not all countries operate the same gauge rail as China’s high speed trains, and the cost would be enormous – high speed track is three times more expensive than conventional rail and all routes would require new track to be laid. In order to take part in the increased trade such routes would bring, some countries are prepared to offer trade incentives in exchange for financial backing on the high speed routes. Myanmar, for example, is apparently prepared to offer rich reserves of lithium, a metal with many industrial applications in computing.

The routes also go hand in hand with some of the oil and gas pipelines heading into China from Siberia and Central Asia. China expects trade and commerce to develop significantly in the Western regions with the establishment of mines, factories, and business centers throughout Xinjiang Province and Central Asia as the routes assist sustainable development in the region.
As you can see, the first article mentions HSR in India, but no route there. The second mentions network to Myanmar and India.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 12:03 AM   #2115
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What, are you Indian???

Your desperate trolling posts made you sound like one as you probably really are, when you are so typically using "Illiterate Indian Bragging Protocol of the web" of keep posting 3 unrelated bullshit posts in a roll "complaining" ( , as if your "english", or shall we call it "Indilish", were any better in any sense) others' English (a barbarian language btw in its nutshell by origin and per see in comparison with highly cultured and refined Chinese), which you colonial white master left to you making you and your "soaper-power" call centre ilk so proud of at every turn! Pathetic, isn't it?

I might be mitaken on the way how you pretended trying to write English as a non-native speaker yourself when you'were "complaining", while I never have mistaken in identifying Indian "whiteman-wannabe" hypocrites from distance, as they stink the way you do.
Hilarious. You made my day!
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Old March 10th, 2010, 01:00 AM   #2116
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How would a line that (according to you) is so easily disrupted facilitate invasion. (And by who?) You're not making sense.
Invasion, by default, means that foreign troops march inside a target country(in this case China proper) while domestic troops ( Chinese troops) are within her own border. The high speed line disrupted in foreign land and thus controlled by foreign forces (logically by definition of invasion) could serve as the perfect mean for transporting resources(human and natural) for invasion purpose should it be called upon during war time.

Disrupted by whom?

Well, as I said, apart from several hostile countries in the region, there're at least a couple of dozen terrorist groups around, officially. Off the record, I would be prefectly happy to take down and get hold on a train-worth Made-in-China high tech elec. gargets heading towards the EU with handheld rocket-propelled grenades, if I were some improverished and anonymous East Turkistan "freedom fighter " based in some moutainous Stanland - who can do anything about it?

Or CIA would do that to make it believe with "photos evidences" to prove that I or whomever they want it to be did it.

If a train is loaded with valuable natural resources during troubled time, it would and will become a nice target for ransom.

In fact the trail track itself becomes a highly valuable bargain tool.

...

I am only talking about individual groups here, hostile countries could do much much more indirectly with no hard evidences leaking out.

The best example is that Japan, having both sufficient funds and leading HSR tech for decades, has never drawn up a proposal of setting up land-based energy/natural resources/its export high speed rail acrossing CHina and stanlands towards the Middle East and the EU. That's telling enough.


Still confused, my man?



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I, I get it. You're nuts.
That's what all the mental retards used to call Werner von Braun. Depending on who you are, I could be honored being addressed as such.

Last edited by [email protected]; March 10th, 2010 at 01:25 AM.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 01:22 AM   #2117
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@ [email protected]

Building high speed trains to gain access to raw materials is not that bad deal for both sides. Isnt this what China is trying to do in Africa too? And where did you come up with building railroads in India? Article is about Central and South East Asia. None of the countries in these geography is a thread to China but very good trade partner.

If India is not in the picture, then slightly better.

Still, passing thru stanland sounds fishy to me , with too much investments and much higher level of risks, particularly with the size of US forces in Afgan and Iraq

- trust your instinct and the whole logic behind of Bush/Blair WMD/War on Terror pretext designed by the trillion-dollar war planners (aka Jews), washing down the throats of the masses of both sides by Jewish controlled western propanganda machine, that yanks WILL eventually set up a permanent mili base there one way or another to control China - that's the whole point, for God's sake!

(Also see my related response above)

The best way to me is still to use sea lane as all others do, flexible and prudent, while boost naval escort capacities (aircrafts carriers, etc.) meantime. Only tightly controlled gas pipeline is for land-based, almost inevitablely, not high speed rails.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 01:59 AM   #2118
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This thread needs some serious moderation...
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Old March 10th, 2010, 04:35 AM   #2119
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King's Cross to Beijing in two days on new high-speed rail network

Passengers will be able to travel by train from King's Cross to Beijing in just two days on trains that travel almost as fast as aeroplanes under ambitious new plans from the Chinese.

By Malcolm Moore, in Shanghai
10:00PM GMT 08 Mar 2010

China is in negotiations to build a high-speed rail network to India and Europe with trains that capable of running at over 200mph within the next ten years.

The network would eventually carry passengers from London to Beijing and then to Singapore. It would also run to India and Pakistan, according to Wang Mengshu, a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering and a senior consultant on China's domestic high-speed rail project.

A second project would see trains heading north through Russia to Germany and into the European railway system, and a third line will extend south to connect Vietnam, Thailand, Burma and Malaysia.

Passengers could board a train in London and step off in Beijing, 5,070 miles away as the crow flies, in just two days. They could go on to Singapore, 6,750 miles away, within three days.

"We are aiming for the trains to run almost as fast as aeroplanes," said Mr Wang. "The best case scenario is that the three networks will be completed in a decade," he added.

Mr Wang said that China was already in negotiations with 17 countries over the rail lines, which will draw together and open up the whole of Central, East and South East Asia. Mr Wang said the network would also allow China to transport valuable cargoes of raw materials more efficiently.

"It was not China that pushed the idea to start with," said Mr Wang. "It was the other countries that came to us, especially India. These countries cannot fully implement the construction of a high-speed rail network and they hoped to draw on our experience and technology," he said.

China is in the middle of a £480 billion domestic railway expansion project that aims to build nearly 19,000 miles of new railways in the next five years, connecting up all of its major cities with high-speed lines.

The world's fastest train, the Harmony Express which has a top speed of nearly 250mph, was unveiled at the end of last year, between the cities of Wuhan and Guangzhou. Wholly Chinese-built, but using technology from Siemens and Kawasaki, the Harmony Express can cover 660 miles, the equivalent of a journey from London to Edinburgh and back, in just three hours.

Mr Wang said the route of the three lines had yet to be decided, but that construction for the South East Asian line had already begun in the southern province of Yunnan and that Burma was about to begin building its link. China has offered to bankroll the Burmese line in exchange for the country's rich reserves of lithium, a metal widely used in batteries.

Currently, the only rail line that links China to South East Asia is an antiquated track built by the French in Vietnam a century ago. The Asian Development Bank has recently agreed a second £27 million loan as part of the £93 reconstruction of Cambodia's network, which should finish by 2013. The cost of the lines from Cambodia to Singapore and then from Vietnam to China could be roughly £400 million.

"We have also already carried out the prospecting and survey work for the European network, and Central and Eastern European countries are keen for us to start," Mr Wang said. "The Northern network will be the third one to start, although China and Russia have already agreed on a high-speed line across Siberia, where one million Chinese already live."

One stumbling block is China's desire for the high-speed tracks to run on the same gauge as China's domestic network. Vietnam has agreed to change its standard gauge, but other countries are still in negotiations.

"From our point of view, the biggest issue is money," said Mr Wang.

"We will use government money and bank loans, but the railways may also raise financing from the private sector and also from the host countries. We would actually prefer the other countries to pay in natural resources rather than make their own capital investment."

As for passengers, Mr Wang predicted that in a decade's time, visa restrictions on travel through Asia "will be further lifted".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...l-network.html
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Old March 10th, 2010, 05:07 AM   #2120
mgk920
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Keep in mind, too, that China's basic railroad technical standards are identical to those of North America (Canada/Mexico/USA), so options in that direction are also available for the REAL dreamers.

AND then, since these standards are also identical to the main standard in Australia....



Assuming that this comes to fruition, could this ultimately mean the death of the Soviet/Russian (1520 mm track gauge/SA3 coupler) standard?

This should be interesting to follow.

Mike
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