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Old March 15th, 2010, 02:13 PM   #2201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
You probably meant this :



Either way, I have met plenty of people who've "spent their entire life" on that island and who wouldn't be able to save their ass by putting together a few cogent sentences. So that's that. And if you are telling truth about yourself, I have just "met" another of these...




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Ariel74 is an Indian troll who pretends to be a German from Frankfurt am Main, a "white" suit he just dressed up with 2 days ago, even though it's almost certian that he doesn't speak jack of German - I haven't seen him once in any of German language threads here. He repeatedly molests the rest of thread members in the name of being an "European" with his "english" typo fetish in a painfully wierd argumentative style that he used to teach at a Mumbai high school, even after being completely destroyed in the debate and exposed as a backpedaling liar.

I hope other thread members stop feeding this troll and come back to the thread topic.

Last edited by [email protected]; March 15th, 2010 at 02:40 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 02:20 PM   #2202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
You probably meant this :



Either way, I have met plenty of people who've "spent their entire life" on that island and who wouldn't be able to save their ass by putting together a few cogent sentences. So that's that. And if you are telling truth about yourself, I have just "met" another of these...
You should be aware that I find your writing to be verbose and poncy. No one here uses some of the terms you use, in the way that you do...

I normally make a point of ignoring someone's mistakes in English if they are a foreign speaker, but I think you should be aware of your own faults before you start criticising and attacking the English language skills of another individual.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 03:08 PM   #2203
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For some detailed status reports on HSR, I'd recommend the following links:

Delays come to an end (EU HSR 2009)
Sun Dec 13th, 2009
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2009/12/13/52450/860

The EU's emerging high-speed networkS
Sat Dec 19th, 2009
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2009/12/17/154428/33

The new high-speed superpower
Mon Feb 22nd, 2010
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2010/2/21/16648/0334

I think the author is German
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Old March 15th, 2010, 03:16 PM   #2204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post


Mods:

Ariel74 is an Indian troll who pretends to be a German from Frankfurt am Main, a "white" suit he just dressed up with 2 days ago, even though it's almost certian that he doesn't speak jack of German - I haven't seen him once in any of German language threads here. He repeatedly molests the rest of thread members in the name of being an "European" with his "english" typo fetish in a painfully wierd argumentative style that he used to teach at a Mumbai high school, even after being completely destroyed in the debate and exposed as a backpedaling liar.

I hope other thread members stop feeding this troll and come back to the thread topic.
You should add your evidence to the post if you suspect him of being a troll
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Old March 15th, 2010, 05:17 PM   #2205
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...

Last edited by [email protected]; March 15th, 2010 at 05:30 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 05:29 PM   #2206
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He seems to enjoy arguing for arguments sake without an end and spent a good portion of his posts on unprovoked personal attack which have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Self-evident trolling by definition I would say, looking thru the last 3 pages. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread by talking more about him here. I'll come back later should I find more news on China's railway development. Cheers!
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Old March 15th, 2010, 06:19 PM   #2207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
For some detailed status reports on HSR, I'd recommend the following links:


The new high-speed superpower
Mon Feb 22nd, 2010
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2010/2/21/16648/0334

I think the author is German
The author of that article has scantly any idea of what he's talking about. He practically misinterprets all the sources he cites - many of which are posts from Chinese forums - and gives the impression that he merely glances at these posts to find a word or two that fit his pre-conceived ideas about Chinese HSR, without really reading these posts.

You (not you alone, Restless, I've pretty much given up hope on you) can read my line by line rebuttals in the replies I posted to the article, under the same username as here: Ariel74.

Last edited by Ariel74; March 16th, 2010 at 02:23 AM.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 06:25 PM   #2208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
You should add your evidence to the post if you suspect him of being a troll
So no explanation of your Daedalian arguments, and taking comfort in fellowship with that rabid panda instead? Stick to the point if you are capable.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 06:43 PM   #2209
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Thanks for the updates Scion. Great pictures. "...a year ahead of schedule" sounds great too.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 01:40 AM   #2210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
So no explanation of your Daedalian arguments, and taking comfort in fellowship with that rabid panda instead? Stick to the point if you are capable.
You've really got to stop spouting nonsense. Where on earth did you pick up the term "Daedalian argument"?? When you work in an American company, you had better think fast.

Also, I think you missed the point of my previous post: this was actually a rebuke of [email protected] for not providing any supporting evidence of his claims.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 01:40 AM   #2211
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Shanghai-Hangzhou Maglev Line Approved

This article provides a bit more background than other posts on the potential approval of the Shanghai - Hangzhou Maglev:

By staff reporter Liang Yang
Caixon online
03.15.2010

Linking the nearly 200 kilometers between Shanghai and Hangzhou, China's first maglev train has been approved by the Ministry of Railways. After several years of delay, the maglev train line project linking Shanghai and Hangzhou won approval from the Ministry of Railways, according to an official from the ministry. Zheng Jian, the ministry's chief planner, said on the sidelines of the just-concluded National People's Congress that further study of the 199.4 kilometer maglev line is ongoing. It is the only Maglev line in China's national medium and long-term plan. The official Xinhua News Agency reported that the project will start construction this year. Shanghai currently operates China's only Maglev route, a 31 kilometer line that serves the Pudong airport which was launched in 2003.

Some experts have cited opposition to the project. A source close to the project told Caixin that the speed of the maglev line will be similar to the high-speed rail line between Shanghai and Hangzhou, but construction costs will be quite high. Meanwhile, issues such as noise and electromagnetic pollution have yet to be resolved. “If the maglev train runs faster than 400 kilometers per hour, the noise will be too loud. But if it runs at 200 kilometers per hour, the high energy consumption will make it economically unviable,” said the source.

Sun Zhang, transportation professor from Tongji University, said the Shanghai-Hangzhou maglev line will extend the current Pudong airport line and shorten the trip between the two cities into one hour. It will also create high-speed transportation between Shanghai's airports and railway terminal. Sun said the maglev line will not compete with the high-speed rail line between Shanghai and Hangzhou as each will have distinct operation model. The project will set an example for China's future development of maglev projects. According to Sun, the design speed of the Shanghai-Hangzhou maglev line is 430 kilometers per hour, but with technological innovation, the speed could reach 900 kilometers per hour, which would compete with transportation by air.

The project was first approved by the State Council in 2006, with a proposed investment of 35 billion yuan and the start of operation was meant to coincide with Shanghai's 2010 World Expo. However, the project was suspended after a year due to opposition from the Ministry of Railways, as well as residents along the line who were concerned the maglev line could pose health risks from electromagnetic radiation. At the same time, a high-speed railway line linking Shanghai and Hangzhou was approved in late 2008 and started construction in early 2009. The railway line is expected to begin operation by October 2010 and shorten the trip to 40 minutes
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Old March 16th, 2010, 02:00 AM   #2212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
This article provides a bit more background than other posts on the potential approval of the Shanghai - Hangzhou Maglev:

By staff reporter Liang Yang
Caixon online
03.15.2010

Linking the nearly 200 kilometers between Shanghai and Hangzhou, China's first maglev train has been approved by the Ministry of Railways. After several years of delay, the maglev train line project linking Shanghai and Hangzhou won approval from the Ministry of Railways, according to an official from the ministry. Zheng Jian, the ministry's chief planner, said on the sidelines of the just-concluded National People's Congress that further study of the 199.4 kilometer maglev line is ongoing. It is the only Maglev line in China's national medium and long-term plan. The official Xinhua News Agency reported that the project will start construction this year. Shanghai currently operates China's only Maglev route, a 31 kilometer line that serves the Pudong airport which was launched in 2003.

Some experts have cited opposition to the project. A source close to the project told Caixin that the speed of the maglev line will be similar to the high-speed rail line between Shanghai and Hangzhou, but construction costs will be quite high. Meanwhile, issues such as noise and electromagnetic pollution have yet to be resolved. “If the maglev train runs faster than 400 kilometers per hour, the noise will be too loud. But if it runs at 200 kilometers per hour, the high energy consumption will make it economically unviable,” said the source.

Sun Zhang, transportation professor from Tongji University, said the Shanghai-Hangzhou maglev line will extend the current Pudong airport line and shorten the trip between the two cities into one hour. It will also create high-speed transportation between Shanghai's airports and railway terminal. Sun said the maglev line will not compete with the high-speed rail line between Shanghai and Hangzhou as each will have distinct operation model. The project will set an example for China's future development of maglev projects. According to Sun, the design speed of the Shanghai-Hangzhou maglev line is 430 kilometers per hour, but with technological innovation, the speed could reach 900 kilometers per hour, which would compete with transportation by air.

The project was first approved by the State Council in 2006, with a proposed investment of 35 billion yuan and the start of operation was meant to coincide with Shanghai's 2010 World Expo. However, the project was suspended after a year due to opposition from the Ministry of Railways, as well as residents along the line who were concerned the maglev line could pose health risks from electromagnetic radiation. At the same time, a high-speed railway line linking Shanghai and Hangzhou was approved in late 2008 and started construction in early 2009. The railway line is expected to begin operation by October 2010 and shorten the trip to 40 minutes
Tell me if I get this right: they are expecting a conventional HSR link between Shanghai and City to open later this year, which will reduce travel time to 40 minutes, and now they plan to start building another HSR link between the same cities, this time with maglev technology? What exactly is the rationale here? I mean, it's not like as if the maglev line would make the trip much shorter than 40 minutes. And is there such a large volume of travelers between the cities that two highspeed connections are needed?

Is someone in the politburo keen to have it as a trophy project, and thereby setting himself at odds with other members and possibly the CRM?
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Old March 16th, 2010, 02:15 AM   #2213
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By the way, here is a chinese news article about an internal debate in China over whether 350km/h and higher speeds are really worth it, given that they have disproportionally large CO2 emissions. The key data cited in the article include:

i) compared with 250km/h, 350km/h trains emit more than twice CO2 per passenger;

ii) the construction process of HSR, given its larger requirement of steel and concrete, represents a high source of emission;

Clearly, even in China itself there are some sober reflections about the net benefits of super high speed railways. Ultimately though, China's environmental problem comes from the role of coal in its electricity generation.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 04:21 AM   #2214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Tell me if I get this right: they are expecting a conventional HSR link between Shanghai and City to open later this year, which will reduce travel time to 40 minutes, and now they plan to start building another HSR link between the same cities, this time with maglev technology? What exactly is the rationale here? I mean, it's not like as if the maglev line would make the trip much shorter than 40 minutes. And is there such a large volume of travelers between the cities that two highspeed connections are needed?

Is someone in the politburo keen to have it as a trophy project, and thereby setting himself at odds with other members and possibly the CRM?
The maglev itself was a pet project of 陈良于, and it's possible that the cancellation of the extension is related to his fall from power. Perhaps someone from the 上海帮 won a Politburo fight. Or perhaps I'm being "too simple, sometimes naive".
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Old March 16th, 2010, 04:59 AM   #2215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
By the way, here is a chinese news article about an internal debate in China over whether 350km/h and higher speeds are really worth it, given that they have disproportionally large CO2 emissions. The key data cited in the article include:

i) compared with 250km/h, 350km/h trains emit more than twice CO2 per passenger;

ii) the construction process of HSR, given its larger requirement of steel and concrete, represents a high source of emission;

Clearly, even in China itself there are some sober reflections about the net benefits of super high speed railways. Ultimately though, China's environmental problem comes from the role of coal in its electricity generation.
So you prefer slower trains (low capacity- hence cannot be the solution for China) or highways (much more pollution)?

Why do you want to add a negative spin even a project like high speed rail network that is clearly environmental friendly and a requirement for sustainable economic growth hence very very beneficial for China and to the World.




For maglev line, I think we need more data (especially estimated demand) to discuss it in a more meaningful way. Although since we are talking about China and especially Yangtze River Delta, I think 2 high speed lines is not that surprising.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 07:47 AM   #2216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Tell me if I get this right: they are expecting a conventional HSR link between Shanghai and City to open later this year, which will reduce travel time to 40 minutes, and now they plan to start building another HSR link between the same cities, this time with maglev technology? What exactly is the rationale here? I mean, it's not like as if the maglev line would make the trip much shorter than 40 minutes. And is there such a large volume of travelers between the cities that two highspeed connections are needed?

Is someone in the politburo keen to have it as a trophy project, and thereby setting himself at odds with other members and possibly the CRM?
I think the most important part of the project (and likely, IMO, the only part to actually have a chance of being built) is the extension of the Maglev all the way to Hongqiao Airport and the Hongqiao HSR hub. That would actually be worthwhile so that there would be a high speed connection between the two airports.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 07:59 AM   #2217
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There is nothing new in the news. The controversial Shanghai-Hangzhou Mag-Lev train was approved a few years ago, but has been suspended indefinitely due to resistance from the residents along the route.

The MOR spokesman merely repeated the same line and was saying this Mag-Lev line was the only one approved in the Medium to Long Term Railway Network Plan and is still under investigation.

It has nothing to do politburo - China is much more sophisticated than you westerners ever assumed or understood, apparently. It is known that MOR had vehemently opposed the Mag-Lev projects right from the beginning. This Mag-Lev line is a pet project for the Shanghai municipal government. The existing Mag-Lev line from Pu-dong Airport was invested by Shanghai government, not MOR. It's losing money, therefore the Shanghai government badly wants to extend the line, first to Hongqiao Airport, then further to Hangzhou in the hope that extended coverage would make the entire Mag-Lev line profitable.

It's a waste of moeny, particularly in light of the Shanghai-Hangzhou High-Speed Rail to be operational this October.

The guy quoted in the report saying Mag-Lev rail could reach 900 kmh eventually is not making sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Tell me if I get this right: they are expecting a conventional HSR link between Shanghai and City to open later this year, which will reduce travel time to 40 minutes, and now they plan to start building another HSR link between the same cities, this time with maglev technology? What exactly is the rationale here? I mean, it's not like as if the maglev line would make the trip much shorter than 40 minutes. And is there such a large volume of travelers between the cities that two highspeed connections are needed?

Is someone in the politburo keen to have it as a trophy project, and thereby setting himself at odds with other members and possibly the CRM?
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Old March 16th, 2010, 12:35 PM   #2218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
So you prefer slower trains (low capacity- hence cannot be the solution for China) or highways (much more pollution)?

Why do you want to add a negative spin even a project like high speed rail network that is clearly environmental friendly and a requirement for sustainable economic growth hence very very beneficial for China and to the World.
Typical knee-jerking reaction from you. It's not about what I prefer. It's about a sensible trade-off between highspeed and the environment. Apparently, if the chinese academics quoted in the article are right, 350km/h trains consume more than twice as much energy to operate compared with 250km/h trains. Coupled with the fact that China mostly burns coal to generate electricity, this surely gives reason for pause, especially for shorter lines like that connecting Tianjin and Beijing.

If that is a spin, it is a spin by some chinese academics. And it's in any case way better than your anti-rightist campaign style instinctive vitriol-spouting.

Last edited by Ariel74; March 16th, 2010 at 01:05 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 12:43 PM   #2219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
The maglev itself was a pet project of 陈良于, and it's possible that the cancellation of the extension is related to his fall from power. Perhaps someone from the 上海帮 won a Politburo fight. Or perhaps I'm being "too simple, sometimes naive".
Something like that was what I was suspecting. But the current Maglev line does feel like a half-ass job. Connecting the two airports would be a fine idea. Is there a way to do that while cutting somewhat closer to Shanghai's city center?
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Old March 16th, 2010, 12:46 PM   #2220
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My replies are italicized and in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by highway35 View Post
It is known that MOR had vehemently opposed the Mag-Lev projects right from the beginning. This Mag-Lev line is a pet project for the Shanghai municipal government. The existing Mag-Lev line from Pu-dong Airport was invested by Shanghai government, not MOR. It's losing money, therefore the Shanghai government badly wants to extend the line, first to Hongqiao Airport, then further to Hangzhou in the hope that extended coverage would make the entire Mag-Lev line profitable.

Sounds like a plausible story. Do you know why the MOR has opposed maglev "right from the beginning"?

It's a waste of moeny, particularly in light of the Shanghai-Hangzhou High-Speed Rail to be operational this October.

I am glad I am not the only one thinking that.
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