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Old April 27th, 2010, 10:31 AM   #2421
makita09
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
Velaro E is 300 mm narrower(lower air resistance)
irrelevent to safety

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and is lighter than Velaro CN. This is why Velaro E could safely run at 350 km/hr. Velaro CN can't.
Which is why Siemens say otherwise of course.

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Velaro RUS is rated at 300 km/hr max like Velaro CN.
No it isn't, its rated at 250km/h, but it has a different guage and loading guage and is therefore a very different vehicle in comparison. All normal guage Velaros are rated at 330km/h - 360km/h.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 11:01 AM   #2422
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
I have given you the manufacturer's spec
No you didn't, you posted a press document that in itself was inconclusive, even if it was a valid document to take as gospel. Can you imagine an engineer phoning Siemens customer services "Thank you for calling sir, the information you need about the technical details of this vehicle is in the brochure, that is first and final for all tech support, thank you for your call"

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and the word of Shinkansen operator chairman that prove that Chinese are overspeeding Shinkansen E2 and Valero CN beyond their designed speed limit.
The word of one competitor who has no more access to the information required to make such a judgement than any of us do, is not proof.

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What have you brought on the table? Nothing other than "Trust Chinese Engineers and train operators, they know what they are doing".
Undoing your specious arguments does not require proving the opposite to be true. The proof will be in the pudding.

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Too bad most people have no faith in anything related to China and Chinese.
Don't they? What about Walmart?

This is where you prove your bias, you prove that nothing is going to change your prejudice against anything Chinese.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 12:41 PM   #2423
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
I have given you the manufacturer's spec

No, you have done no such thing, for the simple reason that Siemens (and Kawasaki heavy industries) was only the manufacturer of the first couple of train sets. The chinese undertook modification as soon as production shifted to China.

The manufacturer's spec, that is, the specification by the chinese, was that the trains are running within their safety limits.


and the word of Shinkansen operator chairman that prove that Chinese are overspeeding Shinkansen E2 and Valero CN beyond their designed speed limit.

The person you quoted is (i) not involved in the technology transfer for CRH2, let alone for CRH3, and (ii) is not expected to make impartial remarks because he is facing touch competition from China, which is partly made possible by his country-men's technology transfer to China. For these simple reasons, you can't expect him to be a reliable source.

What have you brought on the table?

Have you read the link I provided above at Eurotrib? I have already mentioned one substantial change the chinese did even for the first generation of CRH2-350: increasing the axle weight by 1 ton to increase stability. You are welcome to read more about what the chinese engineers did on Eurotrib, but I have a feeling you are not interested in facts.

Nothing other than "Trust Chinese Engineers and train operators, they know what they are doing". Too bad most people have no faith in anything related to China and Chinese.

That's low, but befits you. You can keep on believing what you will, but I am afraid you won't know what hit you when chinese competition comes to your neighborhood slowly and surely in the coming years.


So all you have brought to support your wild claims are mere irrelevancies. and it's a boldfaced lie that I haven't referred you to facts regarding what the chinese engineers did.

just imagine how I wasted all this time with a sore-loser and liar...
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Old April 27th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #2424
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
That was the case for tianjin-Beijing line
Then the safety of Tianjin-Beijing line is compromised.

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Originally Posted by laojang View Post
Hi:
What is the meaning of the words "most people" in you sentence? Do you mean most people in the Western world?
Most people outside of China.

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you can find what percent of the products are made in China.
Blame it on corporate greed. Doesn't mean consumers like it.

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There are many bad things in China. But, please write with facts
rather than with negative emotions.
Unfortunately, this CRH380 looks just like another safety compromised Chinese product like lead-painted toys and Chinese cars that score zero on western crash test.

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Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
irrelevent to safety
Air resistance increases friction, which exert greater force on running gear.

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Which is why Siemens say otherwise of course.
Siemens list 300 km/hr as the top speed of Velaro CN in two separate documents, which is ignored by Chinese authorities.

Quote:
All normal guage Velaros are rated at 330km/h - 360km/h.
Velaro CN is officially rated at 300 km/h due to heavier weight and greater air resistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
No, you have done no such thing, for the simple reason that Siemens (and Kawasaki heavy industries) was only the manufacturer of the first couple of train sets. The chinese undertook modification as soon as production shifted to China.
Then it's even more riskier than I expected.

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The manufacturer's spec, that is, the specification by the chinese, was that the trains are running within their safety limits.
It's just like auto safety standard; a car that scores three stars on C-NCAP Chinese crash test scores zero on Euro NCAP.

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The person you quoted is (i) not involved in the technology transfer for CRH2
He knows what Kawasaki sold to Chinese. After all, he is the chairman of Japan's largest Shinkansen operator.

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let alone for CRH3
He knew that Chinese were overspeeding obsolete Shinkansen E2(I mean CRH2).

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For these simple reasons, you can't expect him to be a reliable source.
What you are claiming is like CEO of BMW doesn't understand rival Mercedes' cars. Of course he does.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 04:15 PM   #2425
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
Then the safety of Tianjin-Beijing line is compromised.

Possibly. But if you had followed reports, you'd know that they (i) had taken CRH2 off the tianjin-bejing line, and (ii) reduced the top commercial speed to 330km/h.


Unfortunately, this CRH380 looks just like another safety compromised Chinese product like lead-painted toys and Chinese cars that score zero on western crash test.

You have very sharp eyes, or perhaps just biased ones. Go and share your petty jokes with your bratwurst/sauerkraut eating hairy friends. they are not good for people with better senses.



Then it's even more riskier than I expected.

Your feeble attempt at insult is all the more pathetic given the FACT that the Chinese have been running versions of CRH2 and CRH3 with a top commercial speed of 350km/h for almost 5 months...

It's just like auto safety standard; a car that scores three stars on C-NCAP Chinese crash test scores zero on Euro NCAP.

What does that have to do with anything? Again, open your own thread, if you want to change topic.

He knows what Kawasaki sold to Chinese. After all, he is the chairman of Japan's largest Shinkansen operator.


He knew that Chinese were overspeeding obsolete Shinkansen E2(I mean CRH2).


What you are claiming is like CEO of BMW doesn't understand rival Mercedes' cars. Of course he does.

the point is not he does not understand E2's capacities, though it is not clear why he should, but that he was in no position to know how CRH2-350 differed from E2. The other point, just as important, is that he has a lot to gain by making remarks that tarnish the image of one of his toughest competitors in the railway industry (part of what he says is plainly incorrect: the chinese didn't steal, they bought the technology).

For both these reasons, he has no credibility whatsoever on the chinese CRH2.

Now go home and share your sour-grape juice with your anti-china friends. Alternatively, try to open up a new thread about the low-quality of chinese products.

Consistently going off topic on this thread will only get you banned.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 04:38 PM   #2426
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You certainly cannot have a subjective discussion with any morbidly "patriotic" USamericans concerning China. They have a complex when it comes to China.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 05:04 PM   #2427
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You certainly cannot have a subjective discussion with any morbidly "patriotic" USamericans concerning China. They have a complex when it comes to China.
I am not sure that he is US american judging from his English, sounds to me more like one of those who live on the German well-fare system, haven't seen much of the world, but have tons of irrational ressentiments.

But you are right, whatever he is, there is no point engaging with him.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #2428
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
Air resistance increases friction, which exert greater force on running gear.
Ahahahahaha! Haha, hahahah!!! Ahahahaaa!

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Old April 27th, 2010, 05:49 PM   #2429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
I am not sure that he is US american judging from his English, sounds to me more like one of those who live on the German well-fare system, haven't seen much of the world, but have tons of irrational ressentiments.

But you are right, whatever he is, there is no point engaging with him.
His original screen name is Onn, an USamerican incapable of rational thinking. He was a subject of constant humiliation and ridicule in the International skybar. He was banned twice on SSC for spreading his Onnion news.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 09:29 PM   #2430
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Originally Posted by snow is red View Post
His original screen name is Onn, an USamerican incapable of rational thinking. He was a subject of constant humiliation and ridicule in the International skybar. He was banned twice on SSC for spreading his Onnion news.
I think you are a bit paranoid about this Onn. This Miler guy can't even write grammatical english, so he is probably not american (despite all those jokes about how bad americans' english is).

But to return to the topic of the thread: does anyone have any information on the development of the next generation CRH3?

I heard that the firm that bought the E2 technology ("North-Rail"?) was more technically competent than the firm that bought the Velaro technology ("South-Rail"), so that, even though Velaro is newer technology than E2, South-Rail has greater difficulty than North-Rail to digest what they bought and improve upon it. Does that explain why the next generation CRH2 came out while nothing is known yet about the next generation CRH3?
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Old April 27th, 2010, 10:44 PM   #2431
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
April 26 Fuzhou-Xiamen CRH opens



Location: Fujian Province
Length: 274.9km
Max speed: 250kmph

it shortens train traveling time from 11 hoursa to 1.5 hours.

(sina)

Next stop on this coastal express -> Shenzhen. I wonder when the Xiamen - Shenzhen section will be completed. Boy, these new stations and trains sure look nice.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #2432
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
the FACT that the Chinese have been running versions of CRH2 and CRH3 with a top commercial speed of 350km/h for almost 5 months...
That's not 5 years or even 50 years. Just wait until you hear the news of a high speed rail disaster from China; this is inevitable given how much Chinese abuse their trains and railways.

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What does that have to do with anything?
I am illustrating a general trend of disregarding safety in China.

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the point is not he does not understand E2's capacities
Surely he does. Better than all of us do. After all, he runs the busiest Shinkansen line.

Quote:
he was in no position to know how CRH2-350 differed from E2.
CRH2 is basically a powered-up version of E2 to enable higher speed.

Quote:
(part of what he says is plainly incorrect: the chinese didn't steal, they bought the technology).
Chinese do not understand that any technology they received from the deal must not be used on a competing product. In other word, they could not take parts intended for CRH2 or CRH3 and use them in CRH380.

Quote:
try to open up a new thread about the low-quality of chinese products.
No need to since that's so obvious to everyone. Sun is yellow, Sea is blue, and Chinese product is poor in quality and unsafe, etc.

It's really a cultural thing, Chinese just don't have same concern for safety as we do, and this is evident in their practice of running trains beyond the revenue service speed limit imposed by train suppliers. This is especially risky for E2 based CRH2, which is an obsolete model from the 90s and was never meant to run that fast.

Last edited by HyperMiler; April 27th, 2010 at 11:18 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 11:19 PM   #2433
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post

It's really a cultural thing, Chinese just don't have same concerns for safety as we do.
That's just not true
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Old April 27th, 2010, 11:28 PM   #2434
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Originally Posted by Deng View Post
That's just not true
Which other country on earth puts melamine in milk?(This is still going on in 2010)
Which other country on earth makes cooking oil out of sewage?(10% of cooking oil consumed in China is recycled from sewage)
Which other country on earth makes chairs that make you develop skin rashes when you sit on them?
Which other country on earth makes drywall that emits poisonous gas?
Which other country on earth executes prisoners to harvest their organs for sale?
Which other country on earth ever exported a car model that scored zero on EuroNCAP crash testing? This was the first time in EuroNCAP's 30-year testing history that a car scored zero on crash test.

I mean, China can't even build a car that could be sold in the US and Western Europe, so why do you think they would do a better job on building a bullet train model which is 10 times more complex than building a car?

I fully understand Chinese culture of disregarding safety because life is cheap over there due to overpopulation. China wouldn't be like this if China is less populous like Taiwan and Singapore, but we can't turn back the clock and change history for a better China.

Last edited by HyperMiler; April 27th, 2010 at 11:42 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 11:45 PM   #2435
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can we ban this shithead already?
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Old April 27th, 2010, 11:51 PM   #2436
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hi MODERATORS, could you put this HyperMiler guy out? He is hijacking this forum to a pet topic of his own that has little to do with "china railway development", not to mention his disregard for facts and imperviousness to arguments.

The rest of you, just IGNORE HyperMiler. He's probably feeling lonely in his life, but you can't help him here, he has to deal with it by himself.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 11:58 PM   #2437
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Originally Posted by Deng View Post
That's just not true
That was fun, isn't it! I mean, you surely didn't expect to trigger that outpouring of hatred with your simple statement, did you Take it for the comic show that it is... it lightens the atmosphere here once in a while.
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Old April 28th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #2438
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And no one knows the latest on the next generation CRH3?
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Old April 28th, 2010, 12:05 AM   #2439
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
hi MODERATORS, could you put this HyperMiler guy out?
I make the same request to throw Ariel out.

He is making things up with unsubstantiated claims about safety of Chinese high speed rails to flame this topic while I back mine with official specification and official quotes to prove that they are speeding beyond limit and compromising safety in the process.

Quote:
He is hijacking this forum to a pet topic of his own that has little to do with "china railway development"
I am talking about the safety of Chinese practice of speeding trains beyond manufacturer imposed speed limit.

Throw Ariel out, problem solved.
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Old April 28th, 2010, 12:10 AM   #2440
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And no one knows the latest on the next generation CRH3?
Why do you ask us? I thought you were the expert on CRH3, enough to claim that manufacturer's official speed rating is false and those trains could be sped up to 350 km without compromising safety thanks to the ingenuity of Chinese engineers making necessary modifications?
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