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Old May 1st, 2010, 05:26 AM   #2461
foxmulder
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This is from wiki:



I think it shows the high speed network coverage nicely.

Last edited by foxmulder; May 1st, 2010 at 06:22 PM.
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Old May 1st, 2010, 12:05 PM   #2462
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To me that CRH380 almost looks like the Chinese have redesigned a Bombardier Zefiro380 in a similar fashion that they made the CRH2 out of the E2.

According to the Wikipedia article about the Zefiro, then Bombardier have sold 80 trains to the Chinese Ministry of Transport and that the trains will be produced in the Sifang factory.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombard...iro#Zefiro_380
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Old May 1st, 2010, 03:20 PM   #2463
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well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
To me that CRH380 almost looks like the Chinese have redesigned a Bombardier Zefiro380 in a similar fashion that they made the CRH2 out of the E2.

It does no such thing. Maybe you need to see an eye-doctor. The picture shows it to be obviously based on CRH2.

According to the Wikipedia article about the Zefiro, then Bombardier have sold 80 trains to the Chinese Ministry of Transport and that the trains will be produced in the Sifang factory.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombard...iro#Zefiro_380

China has also ordered a bunch of Airbus planes a few years back. It's about as relevant as your information about Zefiro, which everyone already knows anyhow.


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Old May 2nd, 2010, 12:56 PM   #2464
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Really, I think the over all shape makes it look a lot more like the Zefiro render on Bobmardier homepage, but with a redesigned front end than a CRH2. Sure the redesign incorporates design features from the CRH2, like the headlights (which the Chinese have added to the E2 design) and the windscreen "bubble" even though it's much flatter than the one on the CRH2/E2. And the other thing is that no one have seen any non-rendered pictures of these new 380 km/h capable Zefiro trains so there is nothing that says that this new CRH380 isn't one?
Note that the CRH380 mock-up don't have a separate door for the driver which the CRH2 have and the Zefiro don't.
In my view it's like they have taken the original Zefiro380 design and tweaked it so that it have a "similar" look like the CRH2 trains.

Compare for yourself:
Mystery train: http://www.mitbbs.com/article2/Milit...615_539895.jpg
Zefiro 380: http://www.zefiro.bombardier.com/en/...s/f7_large.jpg
CRH2: http://images.beijing2008.cn/20071224/Img214220733.jpg

The reason why I stated that China have bought 80 units, is the last two words in that sentence, "Sifang Factory", yes they are to be built in that factory where those images comes from, so there is another thing that points that this is a Zefiro based train.

They claim that this is a "Fully Chinese design", that doesn't mean anything, I have read articles in which they state that China have designed and built the CRH3 trains from the ground up. Sure the article also said that they have bought the trains from Siemens, but they still claimed that it was a Chinese design...
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 01:09 PM   #2465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
This is from wiki:



I think it shows the high speed network coverage nicely.
Which of these lines exist?

From memory:
Beijing-Tianjin
Shijiazhuang-Taiyuan
Jinan-Qingdao
Zhengzhou-Xian
Nanjing-Wuhan
Wuhan-Guangzhou
Ningbo-Fuzhou-Xiamen.

Is it correct?
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 01:42 PM   #2466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
More photos of the "Mystery train":







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Old May 2nd, 2010, 06:01 PM   #2467
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Thanks for the new group of pictures. 203m train length means that it's an eight car consist.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 06:22 PM   #2468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
Really, I think the over all shape makes it look a lot more like the Zefiro render on Bobmardier homepage, but with a redesigned front end than a CRH2. Sure the redesign incorporates design features from the CRH2, like the headlights (which the Chinese have added to the E2 design) and the windscreen "bubble" even though it's much flatter than the one on the CRH2/E2. And the other thing is that no one have seen any non-rendered pictures of these new 380 km/h capable Zefiro trains so there is nothing that says that this new CRH380 isn't one?
Note that the CRH380 mock-up don't have a separate door for the driver which the CRH2 have and the Zefiro don't.
In my view it's like they have taken the original Zefiro380 design and tweaked it so that it have a "similar" look like the CRH2 trains.

Compare for yourself:
Mystery train: http://www.mitbbs.com/article2/Milit...615_539895.jpg
Zefiro 380: http://www.zefiro.bombardier.com/en/...s/f7_large.jpg
CRH2: http://images.beijing2008.cn/20071224/Img214220733.jpg

The reason why I stated that China have bought 80 units, is the last two words in that sentence, "Sifang Factory", yes they are to be built in that factory where those images comes from, so there is another thing that points that this is a Zefiro based train.

They claim that this is a "Fully Chinese design", that doesn't mean anything, I have read articles in which they state that China have designed and built the CRH3 trains from the ground up. Sure the article also said that they have bought the trains from Siemens, but they still claimed that it was a Chinese design...

I don't know what more to tell you except that, if you go to the chinese railway fan sites, you will see that it is common knowledge that Sifang is involved in two parallel developments of 380km/h level train sets. The Expo-Demo is in every respect a modification of crh2. The only thing that it shares with Zefiro is its longer nose. But a lot of things have longer nose than crh2, and by that criteria, everything is a tweak of everything else.

Zefiro will come out, don't you worry. In the mean time, do check up with your eye-doctor.

Last edited by Ariel74; May 2nd, 2010 at 06:28 PM.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 08:27 PM   #2469
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Cool pictures, thanks a lot. They will be running on Beijing-Shanghai line soon.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 11:27 PM   #2470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
More photos of the "Mystery train":
Hi, I tried to read posts from the site where your photos apparently come from (http://club.metrofans.sh.cn), but I can't view anything there, the excuse being that I am not a member of the site. This has been happening for a quite a few months for almost all chinese railway forums. I have in the beginning tried to become a member of some of these forums, but weeks go by without them telling me if my request is granted. Moreover, the best chinese forum hasea.com has, since early February, altogether stopped allowing any new posts from anyone!!!

Do you know what's up with all that? Part of the ridiculous and infamous internet information black-out that is quickly becoming the favorite pastime of those idiots in Beijing??? If so, this is disgusting. They may be building trains, but they are making their country one in which no one wants to live, however fabulous their trains are. And with that kind of information control, they will never lure the best and brightest (the mediocre ones, yes) to work for them, who are, after all, the ones who make these trains possible.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 12:08 AM   #2471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Hi, I tried to read posts from the site where your photos apparently come from (http://club.metrofans.sh.cn), but I can't view anything there, the excuse being that I am not a member of the site. This has been happening for a quite a few months for almost all chinese railway forums. I have in the beginning tried to become a member of some of these forums, but weeks go by without them telling me if my request is granted. Moreover, the best chinese forum hasea.com has, since early February, altogether stopped allowing any new posts from anyone!!!

Do you know what's up with all that? Part of the ridiculous and infamous internet information black-out that is quickly becoming the favorite pastime of those idiots in Beijing??? If so, this is disgusting. They may be building trains, but they are making their country one in which no one wants to live, however fabulous their trains are. And with that kind of information control, they will never lure the best and brightest (the mediocre ones, yes) to work for them, who are, after all, the ones who make these trains possible.

I think it is possibly just you bad luck and more probably just mods of those websites do not grant your requests.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 12:13 AM   #2472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
I think it is possibly just you bad luck and more probably just mods of those websites do not grant your requests.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Ourail.com says no new members are currently being allowed, and it has been saying that for at least two months. Hasea.com does not allow anyone to post anything anymore. These are objective facts. Nothing to do with luck.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 08:23 AM   #2473
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There have been a crackdown of internet sites since last year and a lot of sites were required to re-register their websites. Both hasea.com and ourail.com were shut down in February. ourail.com has since re-opened over a month ago. hasea.com is still having some troubles getting themselves re-registered.

It's frustrating to have the authority in Beijing keeps doing these kind of stupid things, but I suppose after a while things will be back to normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about. Ourail.com says no new members are currently being allowed, and it has been saying that for at least two months. Hasea.com does not allow anyone to post anything anymore. These are objective facts. Nothing to do with luck.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 11:07 AM   #2474
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198 North Korean actress arrive in Dandong

It is reported Kim Jong-Il's train crossed the border earlier this morning.









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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:05 PM   #2475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highway35 View Post
There have been a crackdown of internet sites since last year and a lot of sites were required to re-register their websites. Both hasea.com and ourail.com were shut down in February. ourail.com has since re-opened over a month ago. hasea.com is still having some troubles getting themselves re-registered.

It's frustrating to have the authority in Beijing keeps doing these kind of stupid things, but I suppose after a while things will be back to normal.
No, after a while they will have another crackdown, and one after that, ad infinitum. And for ourail.com, not allowing new members is certainly not "normal". But I guess that's strictly speaking politics/sociology and off topic.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 09:01 PM   #2476
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colorful pictures
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Old May 4th, 2010, 01:49 AM   #2477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
No, after a while they will have another crackdown, and one after that, ad infinitum. And for ourail.com, not allowing new members is certainly not "normal". But I guess that's strictly speaking politics/sociology and off topic.
yes, it's really annoying, I have experiences with this myself, bohai bbs has essentially blocked access from places outside of mainland China and the updates on skyscrapers.cn and gaoloumi are few and far between. You can check out ditiezu.com if you want, which is currently unblocked, however its primary focus is subways, not intercity rail.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #2478
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An interesting issue came up that possibly concerns CRH380's export bid.

http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201005020176.html

Quote:
High-level delegation pushes Shinkansen in U.S.

THE ASAHI SHIMBUN

But the reason for the Shinkansen's light weight is that it has been designed with no consideration for accidents at crossings, because it operates on its own dedicated lines. The French and German trains are heavier because they are made to withstand such crashes. If the United States adopts similar safety standards to those in Europe, the Shinkansen bids may never get out of the sidings.
The US railway safety regulation requires rolling stocks to meet certain crash-worthiness and this is expected to be applied to high speed trains as well because US high speed trains are expected to operate over existing railways. Shinkansen in its current form cannot meet this requirement and Japan's Transportation Ministry is demanding the US to drop or lower the current crash-worthiness standard applied to high speed trains for the sake of increased competition that benefits the US railways.

CRH380, by the virtue of being "influenced" by Shinkansen E2, may also not meet this US train crash-worthiness standard and be disqualified from US bidding if the US decides to adopt European crash-worthiness standard.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #2479
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I stumbled on a recent discussion thread in a chinese forum that might give some clue to the state of 380km/h level train-set development. The author posted some photos, said that there is currently some "mystery train" being tested on some test-tracks that belong to Sifang (I think, but am not sure). A followup post asks if the "mystery train" is CRH-380, the author writes "smiles but no answer".

Here is the photo:



The third picture from the top in that photo shows a HS train-set in test. The front car of the train does not look like any versions of CRH based on CRH2. It does look like it could be a modification of CRH3. But it could also be Zefiro, couldn't it?

There are currently at least three lines of development for 380km/h level train-sets in China, but only Zefiro and the CRH2-380 are associated with Sifang. So the picture we see is Zefiro in test?

Another possibility is that it is a really old picture of projects that preceded the CRHs.

What do you think?
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Old May 5th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #2480
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forgot to quote the source:

http://attach3.bdwm.net/attach/board...img%5f3531.jpg
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