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Old July 24th, 2010, 09:02 AM   #3021
sasalove
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Why China build new HSR? Snow chaos in 2008
Railway, highway and airports were down in Changsha. People were stuck in Guangzhou
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Old July 25th, 2010, 11:25 PM   #3022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
can you post the article here, especially the part about Zefiro 380's production/design progress?
RGI's article

"Less than 2 years have elapsed between contract signing and the start of test running with bombardier's Zefiro 380. By any
standards this is remarkable, but to achieve such a feat with what may become the world's fastest train makes it truly astonishing.

A contract worth 27.4bn yuan was signed by China's Ministry of Railways and the Bombardier Sifang(Qingdao) joint venture in September
2009. This covers delivery of 60 sets of 16 cars and 20 8-car formations, with the first units entering service in 2012, according
to Dr. Tjark Siefkes, senior director, Group Engineering. Siefkes says that no prototype will be built, but that the first 3 trains
will undergo an intensive test program starting in May 2011.

The aluminium-bodied trains are being built in China with 70% local content. Eight-car sets will have up to 664 seats and the 16-car version up to 1336 seats, with both versions
offering a restaurant or bistro and two classes of accommodation in 3368mm wide bodyshells. The fleet will have distributed power with 50% of axles powered on flexx bogies with
a 2700mm wheelbase, but Bombardier has opted for asynchronous traction rather than the permanent magnet motors chosen for the Swiss Twindexx trainsets. A 428m long 16-car set will
have 20MW power rating and a starting acceleration of 0.48m/s^2. Static axle load will be 17 tonnes and total weight 934 tonnes.

Bombardier identified three areas where development work was needed to make the transition from 300kmph to 380kmph. Although the trains will run largely on routes laid with slab
track, copying with flying stones on ballasted track at very high speed was a major challenge, said Christoph Klaes, Director
of strategic projects in Bombardier's passenger division.

Another "big big issue" was cross-wind stability, especially when dealing with tunnel portals and the vagaries of Asian weather.
Considerable research into aerodynamic performance had been carried out, and the trains will have inter-car fairings and pantograph
housings nearly flush with the roof. Siefkes said that his company had "copied nature" to produce mutations that gave the best aerodynamic
performance overall; using the latest computer algorithms, over 4000 iterations had been tried.

The third challenge was to find ways of keeping interior noise at acceptable levels; one method envisaged is the use of sound absorbent
carpet at critical locations, for example around doors.

A full-scale mock-up of a Zefiro 380 car will be on display at the innotrans 2010 exhibition in September in Berlin, but the world's
first real 380kmph trainset is already on the rails. This is the first of 100 trains being built for use on the Beijing - Shanghai PDL
by Changchun Railway Vehicles, whose Class 380A was rolled out on May this year.

Bombardier notes that China will need a further 12 16-car trainsets for operation at 380kmph in 2012."
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Old July 26th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #3023
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Thanks for the article. It sounds like they are still in the early stages of getting a detailed design. Let's see if they make it by May next year to get some real trains rolling.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 04:48 AM   #3024
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2 pictures of CRH380A from International Railway Journal:
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/irj0710/

[img]http://i32.************/jt2cmu.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i26.************/9j18k7.jpg[/img]
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Old July 27th, 2010, 04:31 PM   #3025
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Hell it's beautiful!!!!
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Old July 27th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #3026
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Great pictures, thanks a lot for sharing.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 07:17 AM   #3027
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A rather short but truthful article mentioning not just China's current achievements in railways but also how that looks in the perspective of the rest of the world.


High-speed rail link: China putting the world to shame
http://www.globaltimes.cn/www/englis...07/556892.html

Quote:
By David Friesen



By 2012, we will be able to travel from Beijing to Shanghai in only four hours. Of course, that is assuming the world hasn't ended, with only John Cusack and a few other B-list actors surviving to spawn some hideous Hollywood mutant race. But I digress. The creation of the high-speed rail link across China is nothing short of astonishing, and is the first time that China has really shown how far ahead of the world it is in some areas.

Not only does China now possess the world's fastest commercial train service, miraculously overtaking the famed Japanese bullet trains with average speeds of over 300 kilometer/hour on long-distance journeys, but they are creating a train network that is second to none in the world. The 1,318 kilometers of track needed for the link is being laid at a speed of around 12 kilometers a day. That figure seems completely insane. It means that even if they work for 24 hours a day, they are laying over eight meters of track every minute.

This combination of brilliant technology and brutal manpower is something no other country in the world can accomplish now. And whilst I am extremely impressed and fortunate to be able to observe this progress in Beijing, it also makes me feel embarrassed and saddened that my own country is no longer capable of such great feats of engineering.

I am British, and am rightly proud of our past engineering triumphs. We basically invented the modern rail system nearly 200 years ago. The problem is that we haven't really advanced much past that. I was recently in the UK on our supposedly "fast" trains, which take over two hours to travel the 290 kilometers from London to Man-chester. That's quite pathetic for a country that used to write the book on rail travel. Whilst soon in China, we will be able to travel across the country as if we were maxing out a Formula 1 car.

We've already seen what this train can do with the creation of the Beijing South Railway Station and the running of the Beijing-Tianjin line. A journey that used to creep along for an hour or two now takes about 30 minutes, meaning that the industrial power of Tianjin is more accessible from the capital. Combined with the fact that Beijing will probably have a bigger subway system than even London in the next 10 years, and that Beijing Capital Airport is now the second busiest in the entire world, the startling transformation of the region is there for all to see. China is going straight from nothing to everything in just a few years, and this will see Beijing rapidly overtake major Western cities in terms of national and inter-national transport links.

People might say it is simply because China has so many people and so many migrant workers, which means they can push through such huge engineering projects without much thought for labour costs or safety. This may be partly true, but it is by no means the only reason. China has the vision and the foresight to improve itself, and a sense that the entire country can be involved in this. In the West the pioneering ideals are gone and have been replaced with excuses, bureaucratic barriers and huge doses of negativity and cynicism.

I am genuinely excited by the prospect of being able to travel great distances across China in the time it takes to negotiate traffic in Beijing. The high-speed rail link shows China really means business, and that Western countries cannot simply rest on their achievements of the past.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 07:22 AM   #3028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conc.man View Post
2 pictures of CRH380A from International Railway Journal:
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/irj0710/


[img]http://i26.************/9j18k7.jpg[/img]
Very marvelous design for china high speed train family, it's look like mix design of E6 Shinkansen and Velaro train.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 08:34 AM   #3029
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Being a Chinese, I don't really understand why the British author should feel embarrassed and saddened. If he is embarrassed now, based on the same logic he should have been embarrassed to death when Japan first introduced the Shinkansen in the 60's, provided he was already born at that time. It is generally much harder to update an existent system than build one from scratch, especially when the scale is so large. Also it’s not like we Chinese have invented time traveling, it is just implementation of current HSR techniques. Pretty soon a lot of countries will update their high speed rail systems.

Anyway, I am glad that China is seriously improving its infrastructures, but I will be much happier if Chinese researchers can develop our own new technologies. I guess the best thing to do is to talk less and work harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
A rather short but truthful article mentioning not just China's current achievements in railways but also how that looks in the perspective of the rest of the world.


High-speed rail link: China putting the world to shame
http://www.globaltimes.cn/www/englis...07/556892.html
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Old July 28th, 2010, 10:37 AM   #3030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragel View Post
Being a Chinese, I don't really understand why the British author should feel embarrassed and saddened. If he is embarrassed now, based on the same logic he should have been embarrassed to death when Japan first introduced the Shinkansen in the 60's, provided he was already born at that time.
I agree. I'm british and I don't feel saddened. I feel excited and wish the Chinese all the best. Its not like the Brits are going backwards, its just not all about us anywmore (hasn't been for a hundred years, we should be used to it by now!)
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Old July 28th, 2010, 03:57 PM   #3031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragel View Post
Being a Chinese, I don't really understand why the British author should feel embarrassed and saddened.
Because Britain doesn't have any high speed rail technology and must rely on French and Japanese.

Quote:
I will be much happier if Chinese researchers can develop our own new technologies.
Same feeling here. I do look forward to the day I see a fully Chinese designed bullet train that are kosher for sale in developed nations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by conc.man View Post
2 pictures of CRH380A from International Railway Journal:
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/irj0710/
It's an ad, and is clearly listed as an ad in the journal.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #3032
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Hypermiler and his HS train of bullshit is always on schedule
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Old July 28th, 2010, 06:23 PM   #3033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
Hypermiler and his HS train of bullshit is always on schedule
I look forward to a western coverage of CRH380A, but that one was a paid ad by CSR, so it is not objective.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 07:29 PM   #3034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
I look forward to a western coverage of CRH380A, but that one was a paid ad by CSR, so it is not objective.
CSR definitely need the publicity.

In 2010 so far, they've produced more subway/local/high-speed/freight rolling stock than Alstom Transport but nobody outside of China appreciates this.

The bigger question is why no-one has bothered to profile CSR before?

Personally, I suspect that railway professionals in the West wants to annoy Siemens, Bombardier or Alstom by publishing how CSR has absorbed all their technology and is now a serious competitor.

Last edited by Restless; July 28th, 2010 at 07:35 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 07:37 PM   #3035
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China Rejects Technology-Transfer Concerns

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

BEIJING—China's powerful Ministry of Railways dismissed foreign concerns about the transfer of technology from foreign companies participating in its enormous high-speed rail building binge, saying the country doesn't force such transfers and that it is developing its own technology.

The comments Wednesday, by a senior official during a rare news conference by the normally secretive ministry, came as the World Bank issued a report praising China's high-speed rail plans but also warning that they will be difficult to pay for.

China plans to spend some two trillion yuan, or around $295 billion, by 2020 to build a high-speed rail network totaling 16,000 kilometers (10,000 miles) that connects all its major cities. The World Bank report called the project, begun in 2007, "perhaps the biggest single planned program of passenger-rail investment there has ever been in one country," and said it could help China's economy grow by speeding up passenger traffic, freeing up overloaded freight routes and reducing dependency on automobiles.

China's rail plans have meant billions of dollars of contracts for foreign companies such as Bombardier Inc., Siemens AG, and Alstom SA. But foreign companies were allowed to enter China's market only as joint-venture partners after China abandoned efforts to develop its own independent super-fast trains in 2003, and foreign executives say their companies were required to transfer technology as part of those ventures in order to gain market access. Some foreign executives say China's new home-made high-speed trains, among the fastest in the world, have borrowed heavily from foreign technology.

He Huawu, chief engineer at the Ministry of Railways, acknowledged at Wednesday's news conference that China's trains are based on foreign technology, but said they had been greatly modified by Chinese engineers to increase speeds from 200 kilometers an hour to 350 kilometers. Calling China's policies "forced" technology transfer "is inaccurate," Mr. He said.

"Indeed, China applied the results of world-wide human development of high-speed railways," Mr. He said. "We did lots of innovation and improvement, and this product can also be shared with the world." He said China chose to "first introduce technology from abroad, produce in joint ventures, and then develop Chinese brands."

Foreign executives and analysts have raised particular concerns about the technology transfers because they fear the transfers could be helping Chinese rivals develop into global competitors. Mr. He said the Railways Ministry is looking at projects in Russia, Brazil, the U.S., Myanmar and Laos, among others.

The World Bank's report noted that the "transfer of technology and know-how, together with the experience of building and operating several thousand route-kilometers of high-speed railway, will make China's one of the most advanced railway industries in the world. This should position the country to compete internationally when other countries adopt high-speed railways."

The World Bank report, while lauding the benefits of China's high-speed rail plan for its economy, warned that in the past, such trains have struggled to pay off their high construction bills because steep ticket prices kept passenger volumes below forecasts. China's densely urban corridors could be better suited for the fast trains, but "even in China, the sustainability of railway debt arising from the program as it proceeds will need to be closely monitored and payback periods will not be short," the report said.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #3036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
Hypermiler and his HS train of bullshit is always on schedule
+1
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Old July 28th, 2010, 11:31 PM   #3037
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Hypermiler and his HS train of bullshit is always on schedule
which is why he is still on my ignore list. You guys should do the same.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 11:34 PM   #3038
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Amazing! It seems to be functional and beautiful at the same time!!
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Old July 29th, 2010, 04:54 AM   #3039
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which is why he is still on my ignore list. You guys should do the same.
Believe me I'll do!
I don't understand how somebody can be THAT jealous!
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Old July 29th, 2010, 05:14 PM   #3040
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which is why he is still on my ignore list.
I know ignore list doesn't work. The temptation to click is just too great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
I don't understand how somebody can be THAT jealous!
Why do you think I am jealous?
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