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Old September 19th, 2010, 04:53 AM   #3301
Heusdens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post
Chinese are buying all HSR technologies on the planet to copy them for the future. This is why they built the MAGLEV in Shanghai borrowing Siemens ThyssenKrupp HOWTO. The aim is the stealing of tech information.

Chinese are always the same. BEST COPYWORKER IN THE WORLD.
Now if they buy it they don't steal it.

And Siemens must be very pleased at least SOME country bought their Maglev technology, since not even Germany has any Maglev train.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:30 AM   #3302
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Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Xiamen Railway Station. These pics haven't been posted before I think. By xiaomianlong

Quote:

Looks hugh and modern, another airport style railway station.

Thanks for sharing!
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:52 AM   #3303
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At first glance, I thought the watermark was a newly designed station sign. Would have been a great sign.

The station is really nice. I also notice the supporting structure is kinda similar to that of the Chinese Pavillion.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 06:27 AM   #3304
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Great posts guys, thanks for sharing...

Xiamen Station is really nice.

greenlion, very informative post as usual.

It seems China has signed around 28billion dollars worth of deals so far for high speed train sets. 900 hundred of them!

Although it is a huge amount of money it shows the real investment has been done on the railroad itself. The figure for whole network is around 700billion to 1 trillion so basically, trains will be a fraction of the whole cost.

Also, most expensive one looks like CRH380C.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 06:33 AM   #3305
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Xiamen is freakin' amazing!! It's my second favorite station after Shanghai South (the circle). I like that the architecture looks distinctly Chinese. I wish more Chinese buildings would incorporate Chinese historical architecture like Taipei 101. The palm trees are nice too, they will be provide much-needed shade and natural atmosphere when they grow out.

China needs to reconsider those huge, empty cement squares that seem to be in front of every new railway station. They are bright, hot, and uncomfortable to stand on for long periods. Instead, to attract people for rest and relaxation and not just walking to the station, they can break up the square with little islands of palm trees and benches. Fountains ringed by benches cool people down as the wind blows the spray into them.

Last edited by Geography; September 19th, 2010 at 06:39 AM.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 06:38 AM   #3306
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Some of the comments from the forumers are really retarded.
In his same statement, he claims china buy technologies around the world and then turn around accuse it stealing the technology.
I don't get it. How can "buy" equate to "steal"?
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Old September 19th, 2010, 06:43 AM   #3307
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Greenlion, are those figures for each train car, or train set (with 6-8 cars in a set)?
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Old September 19th, 2010, 06:51 AM   #3308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Greenlion, are those figures for each train car, or train set (with 6-8 cars in a set)?
set
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Old September 19th, 2010, 09:37 AM   #3309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Greenlion, are those figures for each train car, or train set (with 6-8 cars in a set)?
set
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Old September 19th, 2010, 10:02 AM   #3310
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Thanks for your information. Can you or some forumer kindly answer the
following question?
Is it a good idea to put a concrete or metal barrier between two tracks
in a highspeed line, like what is done on expressways to separate traffic in opposite direction? Would this make HSL safer, in case one train derails and there is another train coming from the other track?
The accident in Shandong province 2-3 years ago happened in this way.

Thanks,

Laojang



Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
the MOR of China had ordered 140 CRH380A trains, 80 CRH380B trainsand 240 CRH380C trains, firstly 40 CRH380A & 11 CRH380C trains will come into service in Jinghu PDL. these trains are designed for the Beijing-Shanghai PDL and other newcomer 350km/h lines, but rumor says CRH380A will come into service at the Shanghai-Hangzhou PDL which is set to open at October 1, 2010 as it's first Carry Passenger operating, in other hand, the CRH380B, which is a Bombardier design, will come into service at 2012.

at 350km/h level trains, the MOR had offered 60 CRH3C trains,

at 300 km/h level, the MOR had offered 60 CRH2C trains

at 250km/h level, the MOR offered 320 trains in total, 120 CRH1A, CRH1B & CRH1E, 110 CRH2A,CRH2B & CRH2E, 90 CRH5A
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Old September 19th, 2010, 11:18 AM   #3311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laojang View Post
Thanks for your information. Can you or some forumer kindly answer the
following question?
Is it a good idea to put a concrete or metal barrier between two tracks
in a highspeed line, like what is done on expressways to separate traffic in opposite direction? Would this make HSL safer, in case one train derails and there is another train coming from the other track?
The accident in Shandong province 2-3 years ago happened in this way.

Thanks,

Laojang
I think it's not a good solution, the accident in 2008 was caused by incorrect dispatch,(a Express was traveling at 131 km/h on a temporary railway and the speed limit was 80 km/h). at this point metal barrier could not do much, and for a concrete wall between railtracks...... that makes the passengers sit on the left side of the trains could only face noting but concrate walls during their travel, that will make the journey boring
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Old September 19th, 2010, 11:35 AM   #3312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
I think it's not a good solution, the accident in 2008 was caused by incorrect dispatch,(a Express was traveling at 131 km/h on a temporary railway and the speed limit was 80 km/h). at this point metal barrier could not do much, and for a concrete wall between railtracks...... that makes the passengers sit on the left side of the trains could only face noting but concrate walls during their travel, that will make the journey boring
Would a concrete wall with height between carriage floor and lower edge of windows be useful in preventing collisions?
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:43 PM   #3313
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That will affect aerodynamics. There will be chaotic wind vortexes between train and the wall. I think it will decrease efficiency and maybe even speed.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 09:39 PM   #3314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
Chinese MOR CRH trains order timetable
Contract Price

CRH5A : 10.3 million euro/set
CRH1A : 17.5 million dollar/set
CRH2A : 155 million yuan/set
CRH1A : 17.5 million dollar/set
CRH2C : 136 million yuan/set
CRH3C : 216.6 million yuan/set
CRH1B+E : 25 million euro/set avg
CRH2B : 120 million yuan/set
CRH2E : 150 million yuan/set
CRH2E : 150 million yuan/set
CRH5A : 160 million yuan/set
CNR CRH380C : 392 million yuan/set
CNR CRH380C : 392 million yuan/set
CSR CRH380A : 321 million yuan/set
Bombardier CRH380B(Zefiro) : 342.5 million yuan/set
CNR CRH380C : 195.8 million yuan/set
CNR CRH380C : 196 million yuan/set
CRH1A : 130 million yuan/set
CRH2A : 170 million yuan/set

Dollar Normalized

CRH5A : 13.4 million/set
CRH1A : 17.5 million/set
CRH2A : 23.1 million/set
CRH1A : 17.5 million/set
CRH2C : 20.2 million/set
CRH3C : 32.2 million/set
CRH1B+E : 32.6 million/set avg
CRH2B : 17.8 million/set
CRH2E : 22.3 million/set
CRH2E : 22.3 million/set
CRH5A : 23.8 million/set
CNR CRH380C : 58.3 million/set
CNR CRH380C : 58.3 million/set
CSR CRH380A : 47.7 million/set
CRH380B(Zefiro) : 50.9 million/set
CNR CRH380C : 29.1 million/set
CNR CRH380C : 29.1 million/set
CRH1A : 19.3 million/set
CRH2A : 25.3 million/set

There is little price difference between Siemens brand CRH3C and CRH380C. CRH380C(CRH3C with Chinese supplied parts instead of Siemens parts) is like 10% cheaper(The later batch, not the initial batch), but then again German produced Velaro is cheaper than license produced CRH3C too.

Chinese costs aren't that different from foreigner's cost; it will be loan package and government subsidy that will determine the outcome of China's biddings on3rd world HSR projects.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #3315
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go away, troll
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Old September 19th, 2010, 11:53 PM   #3316
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He's just angry because he derailed the US rail thread. Doesn't like how China is the only real market now and the forseeable future for HSR. Meaning no other HSR company is going to survive without Chinese acceptance.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #3317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
He's just angry because he derailed the US rail thread. Doesn't like how China is the only real market now and the forseeable future for HSR. Meaning no other HSR company is going to survive without Chinese acceptance.
No, the numbers clearly show that Chinese produced trains aren't cheaper than foreign competitor's; It is the government subsidy that makes Chinese trains cheaper overseas.

This would only escalate loan wars in the future, since it is the amount and term of construction loan attached to the bid that determines the winner in 3rd world countries.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #3318
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Thanks for the input on the air turbulence factor.

I wonder how high is the center of gravity of a CHR train.
Assuming the train is 4 metres high, would the center of gravity be around
1.5m? In that case, a concrete wall of 1.5 metre high should be enough. I have seen sound walls along part of the tracks which are much higer than 1.5 metres, the top portion of which is almost transparent. Is there any serious research done on the effect of air turbulence on trains traveling on tracks bounded by two short walls?
From the video of Japanese maglev, it seems there are two shortwalls
enclosing the track.

Best,

Laojang

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
That will affect aerodynamics. There will be chaotic wind vortexes between train and the wall. I think it will decrease efficiency and maybe even speed.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 03:27 AM   #3319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
No, the numbers clearly show that Chinese produced trains aren't cheaper than foreign competitor's; It is the government subsidy that makes Chinese trains cheaper overseas.

This would only escalate loan wars in the future, since it is the amount and term of construction loan attached to the bid that determines the winner in 3rd world countries.
Coming from the guy that said China had no shot of winning US contracts to China being a contender more than the ones you favor. Are you back now to China having no shot? Yeah China has no shot just like no else because HSR throughout the US is a fantasy. And it sounds like you know nothing of US bureaucracy. HSR just as any other infrastructure project is going to cost many times more especially with who you want to win US contracts.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 04:35 AM   #3320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laojang View Post
Thanks for the input on the air turbulence factor.

I wonder how high is the center of gravity of a CHR train.
Assuming the train is 4 metres high, would the center of gravity be around
1.5m? In that case, a concrete wall of 1.5 metre high should be enough. I have seen sound walls along part of the tracks which are much higer than 1.5 metres, the top portion of which is almost transparent. Is there any serious research done on the effect of air turbulence on trains traveling on tracks bounded by two short walls?
From the video of Japanese maglev, it seems there are two shortwalls
enclosing the track.

Best,

Laojang

In Japanese maglev, as you pointed it is on both sides of the train so it is naturally "balanced" hence it will be no problem.

This discussion reminded me that on Urumqi line there will be wind blockers for ~80km of line so we will see how they designed those. That might give us some clue between wall-train interaction at high speed.
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