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Old September 21st, 2010, 07:07 PM   #3341
chornedsnorkack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Aerodynamics may not work as well for a double-decker going at 300+ km/h!
They already work well for doubledeckers going 900+ km/h.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 07:47 PM   #3342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
They already work well for doubledeckers going 900+ km/h.
A plane flying at 35,000 feet encounters far different air resistance and aerodynamic conditions than a train at sea level! You burn a lot more fuel flying at lower altitudes, where air is thicker.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 08:04 PM   #3343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
A plane flying at 35,000 feet encounters far different air resistance and aerodynamic conditions than a train at sea level! You burn a lot more fuel flying at lower altitudes, where air is thicker.
True, but much of the resistance comes from the wing.

There is a reason why very long and thin planes like DC-8-63, Boeing 757-300 and Concorde are not very popular. The balance between form drag and skin friction drag. If you make an aerodynamic shape too long and thin, you are suffering drag all along its sides - a shorter and thicker shape would work better.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 09:12 PM   #3344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Aerodynamics may not work as well for a double-decker going at 300+ km/h!
they have been on service for 15 years by now in France at a 320km/h speed.

they consume 12% less energy per passenger than a regular TGV.

there are wonderfull pics on the internet of Alstoms TGV Duplex, and Talgo is working on an even better double decker HST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS25EoYyxMo

http://membres.multimania.fr/aragorn54/TGV_Duplex.jpg
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d...1138212000.jpg

don't you think it's China's next step to increase capacity of existing lines?

I imagine a double decker 16 car HST fr overcrowed lines and overnight trains.

I think there's a double decker Shinkansen also.
Of course there isn't a Rotem one.

Last edited by Luli Pop; September 21st, 2010 at 09:20 PM.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 09:41 PM   #3345
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
9.20 Nanchang Jiujiang CRH officially opens

Length: 135km
Max speed: 250km/h
Travel time: 45mins
Finally, it has been delayed for quite a while. People in Jiangxi have been waiting for it.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 09:55 PM   #3346
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Shanghai-Hangzhou railway

When, on 1st of October (next Friday) Shanghai-Hangzhou high-speed railway opens, how many stations shall it have?
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Old September 21st, 2010, 09:58 PM   #3347
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I notice all the Chinese HSR lines have endless electric towers along them that are very unsightly. When trains are not passing, what would be relatively flat ground is covered in electricity poles, permanently ruining the view for those living near railroads. Why don't they build a third rail like Singapore does for its above-ground MRT? The third rail would provide power and keep the railroad clear of obstacles that obstruct the view for passengers and residents.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 10:30 PM   #3348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I notice all the Chinese HSR lines have endless electric towers along them that are very unsightly. When trains are not passing, what would be relatively flat ground is covered in electricity poles, permanently ruining the view for those living near railroads. Why don't they build a third rail like Singapore does for its above-ground MRT? The third rail would provide power and keep the railroad clear of obstacles that obstruct the view for passengers and residents.
why dont they put every infrastructure underground
it would look so much better
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Old September 21st, 2010, 10:51 PM   #3349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I notice all the Chinese HSR lines have endless electric towers along them that are very unsightly. When trains are not passing, what would be relatively flat ground is covered in electricity poles, permanently ruining the view for those living near railroads. Why don't they build a third rail like Singapore does for its above-ground MRT? The third rail would provide power and keep the railroad clear of obstacles that obstruct the view for passengers and residents.
Umm, that's what ALL HSR systems and electrified railways look like. Let's ban railways everywhere, sounds like a great idea
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Old September 21st, 2010, 10:54 PM   #3350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
I notice all the Chinese HSR lines have endless electric towers along them that are very unsightly. When trains are not passing, what would be relatively flat ground is covered in electricity poles, permanently ruining the view for those living near railroads. Why don't they build a third rail like Singapore does for its above-ground MRT? The third rail would provide power and keep the railroad clear of obstacles that obstruct the view for passengers and residents.
hehe.. I actually like that view Especially when line is elevated together with those electric towers, it looks great.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 12:03 AM   #3351
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Quote:
Umm, that's what ALL HSR systems and electrified railways look like. Let's ban railways everywhere, sounds like a great idea
What about a third rail? There ARE other ways to do it.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 12:40 AM   #3352
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Quote:
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What about a third rail? There ARE other ways to do it.
why not batteries, while we're at it

after all, looking down from say a hill, 2 rails provide a better symmetry
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 12:57 AM   #3353
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What about a third rail? There ARE other ways to do it.
Isn't it about speed limitations? I can't imagine a train running at 380km/h using a 3rd rail
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 02:06 AM   #3354
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Yeah get back to me when someone's developed a viable 3rd rail HSR system. Plus there's more safety problems with 3rd rail, if someone needs to cross the tracks and there's no bridge/underpass nearby, they have to walk a long ways around, it affects the quality of life more than the view of some shitty agricultural field that's blocked that no ones care about anyway except you. Most of the people seeing the view will be inside the train anyway so they wouldn't care at all.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 02:20 AM   #3355
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don't be mean guys!

Geography is new on the forum, and he doesn't have the obligation to know everything about HSR. It's even possible that he/she is 12 years old.

I prefer 10.000 Geography rather than 1 HyperTroll!

In any case, he/she will learn a lot from all of you and he is very welcame.

Last edited by Luli Pop; September 22nd, 2010 at 03:00 AM.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:07 AM   #3356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography View Post
What about a third rail? There ARE other ways to do it.
Unfortunately third-rail is not an option.

I think the suggested speed of trains on third-rail electrification systems is less than 100 mph (160kmph) due to mechanical limitation. Part of Eurostar is electrified by third-rail, but speed on that part is low.

Due to the safety issue, low voltage limit, low speed limit and other issues, third-rail system of electrification is mostly used in rapid transit systems rather than in HSR systems.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:16 AM   #3357
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Actually Geography's question reminds of complaints from some photographers about the overhead lines ruining their pictures, since it is a natural thing to ask why it has to be overhead lines. Well, maybe in the future we'll have more options.
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:26 AM   #3358
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Maglev is a good solution for that: no overhead wires, no 3rd rails...
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 03:38 AM   #3359
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indeed
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Old September 22nd, 2010, 05:56 AM   #3360
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Quote:
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Maglev is a good solution for that: no overhead wires, no 3rd rails...
And at three times the cost and not proven
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