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Old October 3rd, 2010, 06:05 AM   #3441
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1. CIT400 will be based on CNR's CRH380B
This is the wrong way to do it.

350 km/hr is sort of like a sonic barrier in HSR; new technology is needed to break the "sound barrier" and attain a "supersonic" revenue service speed past 350 km/hr. Just take a look at true "supersonic" bullet trains like AGV and HEMU-400X to see what I mean.

Velaro CN s particularly a bad choice for going past 350 km/hr because of its heavy weight. Shinkansen E2 was a workable choice due to its lighter axle load, but not Velaro.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 06:56 AM   #3442
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china starts development of CRH420

http://bbs.ourail.com/thread-81960-1-1.html

in order to develope the fifth generation CRH train - CRH420, the MOR planned to built a special trainset - CIT400, this train will be used for speed experimental,signal & communication system inspection,track and overhead line inspection,etc

1. CIT400 will be based on CNR's CRH380B, it will have 8 cars (7M1T) and will be completed by December 2010.
2. top inspection speed will be 400km/h, general operating speed 350km/h.
3. in order for techninal reserch for next generation CRH trainsets, CIT400 will finish 450km/h test by June 2011, complete 500km/h test by September 2011.
More good news...

I guess when Beijing-Shanghai line is complete in 2012, we might have these 420km/h trains in operation with this pace of development.

Just 2 years ago people were saying even 320km/h was not doable/economic for operational lines. Now we have 350km, very soon will have 380km/h and again soon 400km/h even 420km/h. It is just amazing. Soon we might be talking about a vacuum tunnel between Taiwan and Mainland. Who knows..

Last decade was great for high speed rail lines. More and more countries building them. And China took it into another level.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 07:22 AM   #3443
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More good news...

I guess when Beijing-Shanghai line is complete in 2012, we might have these 420km/h trains in operation with this pace of development.

Just 2 years ago people were saying even 320km/h was not doable/economic for operational lines. Now we have 350km, very soon will have 380km/h and again soon 400km/h even 420km/h. It is just amazing. Soon we might be talking about a vacuum tunnel between Taiwan and Mainland. Who knows..

Last decade was great for high speed rail lines. More and more countries building them. And China took it into another level.
Yup. I dream of one day travel becoming so fast that People could live in Beijing and work in Shanghai. Travel of a 1000 km taking an hour or 2. You get up in the morning, get in on a super fast 800kmh train and go to your job in Shanghai from from your home in Beijing. This will change the way people work. You could even work in another country and live in another if travel could get so fast.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 09:05 AM   #3444
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More good news...

I guess when Beijing-Shanghai line is complete in 2012,
It has been brought forward to 2011. Which month of 2011?
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Soon we might be talking about a vacuum tunnel between Taiwan and Mainland.
Is Hainan East Ring on schedule to open on 30th of November?

How is the progress of a high-speed rail line Guangzhou-Zhenjiang-Haian? And what about a fixed crossing of Qiongzhou Strait (bridge or tunnel)?

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Yup. I dream of one day travel becoming so fast that People could live in Beijing and work in Shanghai. Travel of a 1000 km taking an hour or 2. You get up in the morning, get in on a super fast 800kmh train and go to your job in Shanghai from from your home in Beijing. This will change the way people work. You could even work in another country and live in another if travel could get so fast.
People can now get up in the morning and get on super fast 900 km/h plane already. How convenient is Beijing International Airport for commuting by plane?

Now that it takes 73 minutes to travel Nanjing-Shanghai, are people living in Nanjing and working in Shanghai? Of course there are a lot of people working in Shanghai who go home for weekends or New Year.

As for country... it does not depend so much on speed, but vicinity of border and ease of crossing. How are the main border HSR-s progressing? Like, Harbin-Mudanjiang-Boli, Harbin-Suifenhe-Haishenwei, Shenyang-Andong-Pyongyang, Nanning-Hanoi, Kunming-Vientiane, Kunming-Mandalay?
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:51 AM   #3445
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 12:25 PM   #3446
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
This is the wrong way to do it.

350 km/hr is sort of like a sonic barrier in HSR; new technology is needed to break the "sound barrier" and attain a "supersonic" revenue service speed past 350 km/hr. Just take a look at true "supersonic" bullet trains like AGV and HEMU-400X to see what I mean.

Velaro CN s particularly a bad choice for going past 350 km/hr because of its heavy weight. Shinkansen E2 was a workable choice due to its lighter axle load, but not Velaro.
I don't feel that 350 km/h is a sonic barrier like that, personally, I think technology need just incrementally increase over time for the 350 km/h mark to be passed gradually. The difference with the HEMU 400 project is that it aims to reach 400 km/h with relative ease, much tougher than making 350 km/h with relative ease so it requires a radical design. The AGV (although in reality it probably won't operate above 350 km/h very often at all) isn't that much of a radical departure from current tech. Plus, as far as I know, no-one knows what the Chinese have been modifying to reduce the weight of the velaro...
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:26 PM   #3447
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People can now get up in the morning and get on super fast 900 km/h plane already. How convenient is Beijing International Airport for commuting by plane?
Plane travel is too complicated, expensive, and flights are not frequent enough. My vision is for a future of super fast travel where going from city to city is no different than taking a bus. Where super fast trains come in every 10 minutes to the station. Trains that are super efficient and cost little to operate. You go to a station in shanghai, wait 10 minutes, take a train, you're in beijing in an hour.

I'm just wondering what the maximum speed is that the human body can widthstand on a train.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 02:20 PM   #3448
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Plane travel is too complicated, expensive, and flights are not frequent enough. My vision is for a future of super fast travel where going from city to city is no different than taking a bus. Where super fast trains come in every 10 minutes to the station. Trains that are super efficient and cost little to operate. You go to a station in shanghai, wait 10 minutes, take a train, you're in beijing in an hour.

I'm just wondering what the maximum speed is that the human body can widthstand on a train.
Theoretically there are no limits until relativistic effects come in, ie when your speed gets near the speed of light. However you are limited in how smooth and straight you can make the track. I suppose if you make it perfectly, you could go as fast as a plane, although the dynamics would be very different. Also there is a limit of how much acceleration you can put passengers through, which is a lot less in a train as nobody has seatbelts and you don't want anyone to be sick.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 04:31 PM   #3449
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Train: K165 (Xi'an–Kunming)
Date & Time: August 19, 15:20

More pictures: http://news.qq.com/a/20100819/002060.htm
Video from August 19 accident:



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Old October 3rd, 2010, 04:32 PM   #3450
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Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
Theoretically there are no limits until relativistic effects come in, ie when your speed gets near the speed of light. However you are limited in how smooth and straight you can make the track. I suppose if you make it perfectly, you could go as fast as a plane, although the dynamics would be very different. Also there is a limit of how much acceleration you can put passengers through, which is a lot less in a train as nobody has seatbelts and you don't want anyone to be sick.
There is a theoretical sped limit to conventional wheel on rail trains where steel wheels are not able to obtain traction due to slippage from air.
It's the same principle as cars losing control on water covered roads known as the hydroplane phenomenon.
The train lifts with speed as air acts as a buffer or cushion between wheel and rail so that little traction is generated.
Down force mitigate the effect but as the wheels turns faster the wheel "bites" air through rotation generating this effect.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 06:11 PM   #3451
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Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
However you are limited in how smooth and straight you can make the track. I suppose if you make it perfectly, you could go as fast as a plane, although the dynamics would be very different. Also there is a limit of how much acceleration you can put passengers through, which is a lot less in a train as nobody has seatbelts and you don't want anyone to be sick.
1 m/s² acceleration is quite practical to handle on trains. Sustain it for 2 minutes and you are at 432 km/h (the speed of Transrapid), having covered 7200 m. Sustain it for 4 minutes and you are at 864 km/h (near airplane cruise speed), having covered 28 800 m.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 06:33 PM   #3452
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
1 m/s² acceleration is quite practical to handle on trains. Sustain it for 2 minutes and you are at 432 km/h (the speed of Transrapid), having covered 7200 m. Sustain it for 4 minutes and you are at 864 km/h (near airplane cruise speed), having covered 28 800 m.
Dream on, guys
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 07:36 PM   #3453
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Dreaming is free :p
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 07:51 PM   #3454
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my prediction: the speed of china's HSR will stay around 400km/h for the foreseeable future, while they try to make progress on (i) energy efficiency of these trains, and (ii) domestically produced Maglevs. In about 20-30 years, they will want to start connecting major cities with distances over 2000km with some sort of maglev lines, gradually phasing out domestic airline services.

Actually, this is not so much a prediction as I believe a rational plan going forward. I hate airlines, and I just don't believe traditional wheel-technology with speed substantially over 400km/h can ever become commercially feasible. I am still happier to see myself proved wrong about that than to have to deal with planes though
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 11:22 PM   #3455
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Tianjin West Station is coming alone nicely...

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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #3456
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I don't feel that 350 km/h is a sonic barrier like that
It is, 350 km/hr is the highest you can go with current generation of train models without causing too much wear and tear on the track.

To go faster, you need new train models with significant axle load reduction to reduce wear and tear.

Velaro CN can be driven to 395 km/hr right now, but what does that do to train and track? It's not sustainable.
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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #3457
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A high-speed train overtaking another high-speed train

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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #3458
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Dreaming is free :p
I dream about vactrains with constant 1G acceleration and deceleration through the whole journey.
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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:55 AM   #3459
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This video was awesome
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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #3460
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I dream about vactrains with constant 1G acceleration and deceleration through the whole journey.
and to go with it, a spartan athletic and eugenic regime for kids the world over, to make sure they are fit to ride the vactrains when they grow up
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