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Old October 10th, 2010, 07:54 AM   #3521
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It reminds me this:



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Old October 10th, 2010, 04:28 PM   #3522
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Looks like something the Japanese would design... not saying it is, but it looks like one.

But if that is developed it would definitively prove that China is beginning to really innovate.
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Old October 10th, 2010, 07:21 PM   #3523
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I donīt think itīs japanese.

itīs just aerodinamic.
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Old October 10th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #3524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post


I donīt think itīs japanese.

itīs just aerodinamic.
German, French or Canadian high speed trains are also aerodynamic but they don't look "Japanese". This particular train indeed has features which look very "Japanese". I have never been a fan of Japanese train designs but I guess it's not the most important thing which determines how good the train is.
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Old October 10th, 2010, 09:17 PM   #3525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
German, French or Canadian high speed trains are also aerodynamic but they don't look "Japanese". This particular train indeed has features which look very "Japanese". I have never been a fan of Japanese train designs but I guess it's not the most important thing which determines how good the train is.
Should we call all "long nose" trains Japanese looking?
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Old October 10th, 2010, 09:29 PM   #3526
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So far it has been the case i.e. long nosed trains were all Japanese. Maybe this is going to change.
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Old October 10th, 2010, 10:31 PM   #3527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
German, French or Canadian high speed trains are also aerodynamic but they don't look "Japanese". This particular train indeed has features which look very "Japanese". I have never been a fan of Japanese train designs but I guess it's not the most important thing which determines how good the train is.
don't be silly. The "look" of the trains is the least on the mind of a designer. The reason that CRH380A and this "plan 14" (which is what this is known as in expert circles, as this is probably the 14th of a large group of designs, some of which you can see in Chinese fan forums) have long noses are probably because the HSR lines in China have a large amount of tunnels - which also happens to be the case in Japan - so that a particular type of shapes make more aerodynamic sense.

In fact, rumors have it that the Chinese wanted to elongate the nose of the Velaro-based CRH380B, but Siemens didn't allow it (apparently CRH380B remains a co-production of Siemens and a Chinese producer, unlike CRH380A). The reason for the Chinese' wish for a longer nose certainly has nothing to do with a "Japanese look".

Luli Pop has it exactly right: It's all about aerodynamics, which is something not to be considered in the abstract, but in the context of each country's geographic characters.
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Old October 10th, 2010, 10:32 PM   #3528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
So far it has been the case i.e. long nosed trains were all Japanese. Maybe this is going to change.
Incorrect. CRH380A has a long nose, and it is not Japanese.
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Old October 10th, 2010, 11:35 PM   #3529
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Incorrect. CRH380A has a long nose, and it is not Japanese.
Yeah, but it does look "Japanese" as well. And it looks like many design features were borrowed from Shinkansen E2 series trains.
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Old October 10th, 2010, 11:42 PM   #3530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
don't be silly. The "look" of the trains is the least on the mind of a designer. The reason that CRH380A and this "plan 14" (which is what this is known as in expert circles, as this is probably the 14th of a large group of designs, some of which you can see in Chinese fan forums) have long noses are probably because the HSR lines in China have a large amount of tunnels - which also happens to be the case in Japan - so that a particular type of shapes make more aerodynamic sense.

In fact, rumors have it that the Chinese wanted to elongate the nose of the Velaro-based CRH380B, but Siemens didn't allow it (apparently CRH380B remains a co-production of Siemens and a Chinese producer, unlike CRH380A). The reason for the Chinese' wish for a longer nose certainly has nothing to do with a "Japanese look".

Luli Pop has it exactly right: It's all about aerodynamics, which is something not to be considered in the abstract, but in the context of each country's geographic characters.
I am not saying it's not about aerodynamics. Only that until now most trains with excessively long noses and somewhat tacky designs were Japanese, hence the "Japanese" looks which some people are referring to. If a particular design feature has been typical to only one maker of a certain product type then you will naturally say that a similar-looking product elsewhere looks "Japanese". E.g. American animators may create an animation which will use features typical to Japanese manga cartoons even if that is for a different purpose than just to make it look like Japanese. So those American animations/cartoons would indeed look "Japanese" to most.

Not that I really care about that but I just wanted to explain why some people may say it looks "japanese".
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Old October 11th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #3531
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Yeah, but it does look "Japanese" as well. And it looks like many design features were borrowed from Shinkansen E2 series trains.
Actually, CRH380A doesn't look to me Japanese at all.

Japanese trains look - if one wants to generalize at all - all cute and often extravagantly so. But CRH380A looks anything BUT cute. "Fierce" is a more appropriate description, yet it is fierce in a low-key manner, anything BUT extravagant.

I think you need to develop slightly more sophisticated visual categories than "long/short" For if not, you'd not be able to tell more than two types of objects apart
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:10 AM   #3532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Actually, CRH380A doesn't look to me Japanese at all.
And I think it looks as Japanese as it can get. The headlights and other design details closely resemble E2 Shinkansen on which it is largely based.

Quote:
Japanese trains look - if one wants to generalize at all - all cute and often extravagantly so. But CRH380A looks anything BUT cute. "Fierce" is a more appropriate description, yet it is fierce in a low-key manner, anything BUT extravagant.
Japanese trains don't look cute. Usually they look ugly (with few exceptions) and somewhat brutal and freaky. That is opposed to "cute". A cute train is ICE/Velaro, especially the ICE-T

Freaky and weird


vs.

Cute and sexy


Quote:
I think you need to develop slightly more sophisticated visual categories than "long/short" For if not, you'd not be able to tell more than two types of objects apart
That is your assumption and an attempt to put words into my mouth. Fortunately this is not the case with me.

Last edited by Pansori; October 11th, 2010 at 01:16 AM.
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:12 AM   #3533
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Not CRH380A- this:

image hosted on flickr
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:15 AM   #3534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simfan34 View Post
Not CRH380A- this:

image hosted on flickr
did you even read the posts that came after the post with those images?
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:19 AM   #3535
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Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
did you even read the posts that came after the post with those images?
Yes! I was the one who first said that train looked Japanese, and apparently some people thought I was talking about the CRH380A; which I have said before, I find to be a wonderful looking train.
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:22 AM   #3536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simfan34 View Post
Yes! I was the one who first said that train looked Japanese, and apparently some people thought I was talking about the CRH380A; which I have said before, I find to be a wonderful looking train.
No. They weren't until hypemillers clone... I mean Ariel74 brought it up.
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:23 AM   #3537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
And I think it looks as Japanese as it can get. The headlights and other design details closely resemble E2 Shinkansen on which it is largely based.




That is your assumption and an attempt to put words into my mouth. Fortunately this is not the case with me.
How did I "put words" in your mouth? You were the one hanging onto the long nose to explain the supposed "Japanese look".

So you do have somewhat more complex categories than "long/short". That's a good start. But work on improving them. Because, it still doesn't make sense to say that CRH380A looks Japanese. It doesn't share any of the aesthetic characteristics of the Japanese trains you showed.

Since we are talking about the eventual visual effect, or the "look", it's neither here nor there to point out that CRH380A is "based" on E2. Sure it is. But both are "based", eventually, on this guy:


Last edited by Ariel74; October 11th, 2010 at 01:28 AM.
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:24 AM   #3538
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Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
No. They weren't until hypemillers clone... I mean Ariel74 brought it up.
You need to get rid of your Hypermiler fetish. Hypermiler is on my ignore list. I can't even see what he writes, if he does write.
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:26 AM   #3539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
You need to get rid of your Hypermiler fetish. Hypermiler is on my ignore list. I can't even see what he writes, if he does write.
What Hypermiller fetish? One comment and it's a fetish. How many times have you replied to someones post about ignoring him?
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Old October 11th, 2010, 01:29 AM   #3540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
So you do have somewhat more complex categories than "long/short". That's a good start. But work on improving them. Because, it still doesn't make sense to say that CRH380A look Japanese. It doesn't share any of the aesthetic characteristics of the Japanese trains you showed.

Since we are talking about the eventual visual effect, or the "look", it's neither here nor there to point out that CRH380A is "based" on E2. Sure it is. But both are "based", eventually, on this guy:

If you don't see any similarities between E2 Shinkansen and CRH380A then it's you who must improve your senses
And it shares such major characteristics as the aerodynamic front. Just open a picture of an E2 train and CRH380A to see the similarities.



CRH2 (design is virtually identical to E2 Series)


CRH380A looks better but doesn't change the fact that they share some major visual characteristics and indeed both look very "Japanese".

Now I'm not saying that this is good or bad or anything. I'm just stating this as a matter of fact because it is obvious even by looking at the photos.

Anyway, I'm not continuing on that because, frankly, I don't care and not going to waste my time on discussing such completely irrelevant details.

Last edited by Pansori; October 11th, 2010 at 01:34 AM.
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