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Old November 8th, 2010, 11:02 AM   #3741
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off topic again
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Old November 8th, 2010, 11:25 AM   #3742
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Quote:
Critics point out that bullet train services, such as the 1,000km Wuhan to Guangzhou connection that opened this year, are operating at less than half their full capacity and will never make enough money to repay the large bank loans used to build them.
Wow, this is so obviously ridiculous. Those lines are operating at half their capacity because the whole system is still u/c. No large infraestructure project operates at full capacity as soon as it opens, airports, subways, highways... Normally it takes years till the natural demand assimilates the new service, especially when there're still more projects in the pipeline that will integrate with the current lines. Look at the airports, they protested a lot when Pudong and Beijing launched their monster airport projects. Now Beijing is reaching its maximum capacity within 2012-2013 and Pudong is operating above its current capacity either so that they are accelerating extension plans.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 11:36 AM   #3743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Wow, this is so obviously ridiculous. Those lines are operating at half their capacity because the whole system is still u/c.
Yeah this so blindingly obvious. There may still be issues with the finished system, but so far it looks as if the HSR network will probably run out of capacity within a few years/decades, just like the airports you mention.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 12:21 PM   #3744
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11.8 South Xinjiang railway Kashi-Hetian line completed



Length: 488.27km
Project started: 2008.12
Cost: 5.073 billion yuan
Connecting 10 cities in south Xinjiang of west China




source
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Old November 8th, 2010, 12:22 PM   #3745
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Lanzhou-Baoji CRH to construct by the end of 2010

Length: 400km, crossing Gansu and Shaanxi Provinces
Speed: max 350km/h
Cost projection: 64 billion yuan
Project duration: 4.5 years

The travel time will be reduced from 8 hours to 2 hours



source
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Old November 8th, 2010, 12:34 PM   #3746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
Discovery: Beijing - Shanghai High Speed Railway and CRH380 trains

http://www.imgo.tv/player/ref_imgo_p...=1&fst=1&pic=0

Source: Video above ( Mr ZHANG SHU GUANG , CHIEF DESIGNER , PRC Ministry of Railway )

---------------------------------------

Beijing -- Shanghai CRH380 -- HST corridor will generate many, many economic benefits, the obvious among them:

1) Huge Saving of (3.2 Billion USD) / year for China in terms of the cost of Energy Usage
in moving passengers between Beijing -- Shanghai. (Green Transportation Method)

2) Linking the cities along the HST corridor to generate economic activities
that produce so many unmeasurable long term economic and cultural benefits.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 12:39 PM   #3747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post

We know one country (in North America) is begging China to finance and build this CRH380 system for them, and pay the whole projects in WORTHLESS monopoly money.



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SHUT UP TROLL.
Stop with your annoying nonsense. Enough with Canada and China. And try to find some manners while getting rid of your arrogance that will sure land you in hot boiling soup someday. WTF is wrong with you Mika? I've reported you to the mods already.

Anyway, with Kashgar to Haotan, what is actually the reason behind connecting with Haotan? It seems very remote and interesting considering Kashgar doesnt seem to be connected to other rail networks in neighbouring countries. Is it more of freight (incl. resources mining) or passengers where the demand lies?
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Old November 8th, 2010, 01:47 PM   #3748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingstingsting View Post

Anyway, with Kashgar to Haotan, what is actually the reason behind connecting with Haotan? It seems very remote and interesting considering Kashgar doesnt seem to be connected to other rail networks in neighbouring countries. Is it more of freight (incl. resources mining) or passengers where the demand lies?
Remote, but Hotan looks like one of most populous cities in Xinjiang that did not already have a rail connection of any kind. As for why Kashgar rather than, say, Aksu, note that the population is concentrated in a string of oases at the foot of mountains between Kashgar and Hotan.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 02:08 PM   #3749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
Discovery: Beijing - Shanghai High Speed Railway and CRH380 trains

http://www.imgo.tv/player/ref_imgo_p...=1&fst=1&pic=0
anyone has links to the English version of the documentary movie? every time I watch a discovery documentary movie, I prefer English version much more than the Chinese version.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 05:23 PM   #3750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post

This shows how busy the line is;

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
Incorrect. How can rush hour interval be 15 minutes if average interval is only 11 minutes?

Guangzhou South station departures (northward):
- 06:50 to Wuhan
- 06:55 to Changsha South
- 07:05 to Wuhan
- 07:17 to Wuhan
- 07:22 to Changsha South
- 07:32 to Wuhan
- 07:39 to Wuhan
- 07:55 to Wuhan
- 08:05 to Changsha South
- 08:15 to Wuhan
- 08:22 to Changsha South
- 08:36 to Wuhan
- 08:44 to Wuhan
- 09:00 to Wuhan
- 09:08 to Wuhan
- 09:13 to Changsha South
- 09:22 to Wuhan
- 09:36 to Wuhan
- 09:52 to Wuhan
- 10:00 to Wuhan
- 10:06 to Wuhan
- 10:20 to Wuhan
- 10:29 to Changsha South
- 10:45 to Wuhan
- 10:57 to Wuhan
- 11:07 to Changsha South
- 11:20 to Wuhan
- 11:33 to Wuhan
- 11:46 to Wuhan
- 12:00 to Changsha South
- 12:16 to Wuhan
- 12:28 to Wuhan
- 12:33 to Wuhan
- 12:51 to Wuhan
- 12:57 to Changsha South
- 13:05 to Wuhan
- 13:30 to Wuhan
- 13:36 to Wuhan
- 13:51 to Changsha South
- 14:00 to Wuhan
- 14:10 to Wuhan
- 14:20 to Changsha South
- 14:25 to Wuhan
- 14:36 to Wuhan
- 14:43 to Changsha South
- 15:00 to Wuhan
- 15:05 to Wuhan
- 15:15 to Wuhan
- 15:28 to Changsha South
- 15:38 to Wuhan
- 15:49 to Changsha South
- 16:00 to Wuhan
- 16:10 to Wuhan
- 16:21 to Changsha South
- 16:34 to Wuhan
- 16:45 to Wuhan
- 17:00 to Wuhan
- 17:05 to Changsha South
- 17:10 to Wuhan
- 17:22 to Changsha South
- 17:32 to Wuhan
- 17:44 to Changsha South
- 17:54 to Wuhan
- 18:00 to Wuhan
- 18:15 to Changsha South
- 18:25 to Wuhan
- 18:40 to Changsha South
- 18:50 to Changsha South
- 19:20 to Changsha South
- 19:28 to Changsha South
- 19:38 to Wuhan
- 20:00 to Wuhan
- 20:25 to Changsha South
- 20:50 to Changsha South
- 21:30 to Changsha South


Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/dfpd/hu...nt_961953.html

According to report, the Wuhan–Guangzhou HSR line transported 118 thousand people on October 1, 2010, in a single day.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #3751
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Doesnt matter how many are carried if it cant meet the commercial loan repayments, The governments concern is the second wave of locally promoted HSR lines lack joined up planning and will cannibalise each others potential users. When you also factor in that 70% of all local councils are insolvent according to official state figures due to overspeculation in property the governments really worried of a big infrastructure and banking collapse.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #3752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Doesnt matter how many are carried if it cant meet the commercial loan repayments, The governments concern is the second wave of locally promoted HSR lines lack joined up planning and will cannibalise each others potential users. When you also factor in that 70% of all local councils are insolvent according to official state figures due to overspeculation in property the governments really worried of a big infrastructure and banking collapse.
So is this about current high speed main trunk lines or some future lines hence just about speculation?

If this is about current main trunk lines, numbers are here and they cannot be better.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 11:27 PM   #3753
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Who cares if repayment is not assured if there's:


1) Huge Saving of (3.2 Billion USD just for Beijing -- Shanghai) / year for China in terms of the cost of Energy Usage
in moving passengers between Beijing -- Shanghai. (Green Transportation Method)

2) Linking the cities along the HST corridor to generate economic activities
that produce so many unmeasurable long term economic and cultural benefits.

It's macroeconomics idiots!!!
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Old November 9th, 2010, 12:06 AM   #3754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
Discovery: Beijing - Shanghai High Speed Railway and CRH380 trains

http://www.imgo.tv/player/ref_imgo_p...=1&fst=1&pic=0
Anybody has the original English version of this Man Made Marvels on Discovery Channel?
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Old November 9th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #3755
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If you believe the statistics the average Chinese can't buy a car yet China is the largest car market in the world. And the majority pays cash and don't get a car loan. Look at the "coming collapse of China" because of the real estate bubble. Now they're saying the real estate bubble has been safely deflating. Interesting how the theme is somehow China can't control anything when it comes to economy because they want to believe China is not as advanced as they are and yet it has handled everything in a very pragmatic manner. Not saying China is advanced. Just saying the critics ain't as advanced as they think. They also believe corruption is there somewhere but their's is actually worse. They've just made it official so it can't be called corruption. And the final nail on the coffin is this financial crisis. What they said couldn't happen and it did. What more exposes the "official" corruption than this at a scale never before?
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Old November 9th, 2010, 12:15 AM   #3756
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Frankly speaking in today's China building infrastructure is like playing SimCity with a unlimited money patch, I'm Lovin' it! The initial build up is the hard part, once the system is in place revenue will start to come like there is no tomorrow.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 12:18 AM   #3757
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Old November 9th, 2010, 01:52 AM   #3758
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Back in August I had the chance to take the CRH from Shanghai to Wuhan and then down to Guangzhou. When I was looking at the schedule for the CRH between Shanghai and Wuhan, there only seems to be one train that go to Wuhan station and the rest go to Wuchang (2 trains) and Hankou. Does anyone know why there is only one trip to Wuhan? In the future will there be more trips to Wuhan once the Beijing-Guangzhou line is complete? Thanks in advance.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 02:00 AM   #3759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Wow, this is so obviously ridiculous. Those lines are operating at half their capacity because the whole system is still u/c. No large infraestructure project operates at full capacity as soon as it opens, airports, subways, highways... Normally it takes years till the natural demand assimilates the new service, especially when there're still more projects in the pipeline that will integrate with the current lines. Look at the airports, they protested a lot when Pudong and Beijing launched their monster airport projects. Now Beijing is reaching its maximum capacity within 2012-2013 and Pudong is operating above its current capacity either so that they are accelerating extension plans.
Hmm. Knowing that the minimum interval for hi-speed trains is around 5 minutes or less I wonder why FT is not reporting that most other HSR lines in the world are operating at far less than 1/2 of their capacity?

If you look at this map it's obvious that Guangzhou-Wuhan cannot operate at full capacity at the moment and if it would it would probably face colossal capacity issues after opening new lines between Wuhan and Beijing and Changsha-Shanghai link plus there may be other direct services which will use the same track? It's amazing that a newspaper as serious as FT could write such nonsense.

It would be suicidal to build less capacity and slower trains in China at the moment. It's not really rocket science to see why: population and population density along with massive urban centers. Unless it wants to entrap itself into insufficient and inadequate infrastructure (as some big countries in Asia already did) it MUST build it and do it ASAP because cost of not-doing that will far exceed any "debts" mentioned in that article which was obviously written by someone who never even bothered to look at China's population and HSR map.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 02:58 AM   #3760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
Who cares if repayment is not assured if there's:


1) Huge Saving of (3.2 Billion USD just for Beijing -- Shanghai) / year for China in terms of the cost of Energy Usage
in moving passengers between Beijing -- Shanghai. (Green Transportation Method)

2) Linking the cities along the HST corridor to generate economic activities
that produce so many unmeasurable long term economic and cultural benefits.

It's macroeconomics idiots!!!
There are good reasons to care about repayment, otherwise we would end up with projects that would be little use to anyone. The current projects definitely are, though I am a little less sure about a few of the planned ones, there is some exuberance in the system.

The two goals above are in conflict. Yes, rail saves energy, as long as it isn't too high-speed anyway, but this saving will be offset by greater use of these traffic corridors (that should give rise to "long term economic and cultural benefits", most which should be possible to measure).
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