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Old November 9th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #3761
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Those lines are operating at half their capacity because the whole system is still u/c. No large infraestructure project operates at full capacity as soon as it opens, airports, subways, highways... Normally it takes years till the natural demand assimilates the new service, especially when there're still more projects in the pipeline that will integrate with the current lines. Look at the airports, they protested a lot when Pudong and Beijing launched their monster airport projects. Now Beijing is reaching its maximum capacity within 2012-2013 and Pudong is operating above its current capacity either so that they are accelerating extension plans.
You're absolutely right. Transportation infrastructure is a long-term investment and if all the trains were running at full capacity the first year they opened, that would indicate poor planning. The celebrated U.S. Interstate Highway System was no where near full capacity when it was built in the 1950s! Neither are airports or train systems.

Further integration will come as the HSR network is completed and dozens of metro systems in Chinese cities link up with them. Plus China can always reduce frequency and capacity by idling some trains to increase passenger loads per train if need be.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 03:33 AM   #3762
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it you look at public mass transit systems worldwide, hardly any of them are profitable. public transit is a form of government welfare for the masses, it's a wise investment for the environment and greater good.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 06:28 AM   #3763
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Last Week, the CRH380A-6041L rolled off, and will enter test run and the Beijing ring railroad.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 07:38 AM   #3764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
... ...
Yes, rail saves energy, as long as it isn't too high-speed anyway ... ...
With China CRH -- every Speed increase will always be accompanied by a similar significant Reduction in energy usage.

I do not have a Energy Saving stat at this moment,
I am digging it out ... ...

China CRH EMU is so far not only the fastest, but it is also the most energy efficient EMU by a significant amount.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 09:59 AM   #3765
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With China CRH -- every Speed increase will always be accompanied by a similar significant Reduction in energy usage.

I do not have a Energy Saving stat at this moment,
I am digging it out ... ...
China CRH EMU is so far not only the fastest, but it is also the most energy efficient EMU by a significant amount.
Please do so, I am interested in facts, not boasts. With regards to increasing speed=reduction in energy usage, perhaps on the margin, but overall the consumption will continue to increase, otherwise you defy physics.

Last edited by k.k.jetcar; November 9th, 2010 at 10:06 AM.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 10:09 AM   #3766
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Quote:
it you look at public mass transit systems worldwide, hardly any of them are profitable.
In Japan, there are plenty of mass transit systems (railways) that are profitable. They are also private enterprise.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 03:23 PM   #3767
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I'd qualify that with the following statement:

The Tokaido (Tokyo-Osaka) Shinkansen has a huge operating profit and easily repaid its construction costs. There is no dispute about this.

However, most/all of the other Shinkansens have an operating profit, but this is unable to repay the construction costs.

The Shinakansens also promote growth in the rest of the economy, so the net benefit to society may be positive (eg. additional growth and tax revenue), although the railway company itself may run at a loss.

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In Japan, there are plenty of mass transit systems (railways) that are profitable. They are also private enterprise.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #3768
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Originally Posted by hzkiller View Post
Are the meals convenient and affordable? Is the 45 minute trip time adequate to eat a proper breakfast?
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Old November 9th, 2010, 06:46 PM   #3769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
It's amazing that a newspaper as serious as FT could write such nonsense.
Are you kidding?

FT, NYT and CNN are the least serious newspapers/broadcast ever.
They'ra just panflets with US-UK propaganda.

Everybody knows that!
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Old November 9th, 2010, 10:19 PM   #3770
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Yes its the Peoples Party thats ordered the investigation, not the newspaper who is only reporting the ordering of the investigation.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 10:52 PM   #3771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post
Are you kidding?

FT, NYT and CNN are the least serious newspapers/broadcast ever.
They'ra just panflets with US-UK propaganda.

Everybody knows that!
I don't know if this is being serious or sarcastic.
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Old November 9th, 2010, 10:56 PM   #3772
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Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
I don't know if this is being serious or sarcastic.
What he says is true. Whether he means it or not is another story
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:24 AM   #3773
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Originally Posted by MWC View Post
What he says is true. Whether he means it or not is another story
Calling US/UK news,etc propaganda platforms compared to PRC media is like the pot calling the kettle black. That's a debate for another thread.
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Last edited by dumbfword; November 10th, 2010 at 01:31 AM.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:54 AM   #3774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
anyone has links to the English version of the documentary movie? every time I watch a discovery documentary movie, I prefer English version much more than the Chinese version.
Yeah the original version of the video would be awesome. It is too funny to watch a Chinese person 'speaks' in Chinese but with a voice of translator.

I am also interested in finding the original version of Hongqiao traffic hub documentary made by Discovery Channel as well. Someone said on a Chinese forum that Discovery Channel had it on last Friday, but I could not find any information about it on its website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
Calling US/UK news,etc propaganda platforms compared to PRC media is like the pot calling the kettle black. That's a debate for another thread.
go ahead and create such a thread somewhere if you will. everyone please stay on topic.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 02:36 AM   #3775
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I agree with fragel. Is it really so hard to just stay on the topic of the trains?
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Old November 10th, 2010, 02:55 AM   #3776
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From People's Daily

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China's high-speed trains to reach 400 km/hr speeds in 5-10 yrs

Zhang Shuguang, Deputy Chief Engineer and director of the Transport Bureau of the Ministry of Railways (MOR) said on Nov. 6 that it is conceivable that the speed of China's high-speed trains will reach 400 kilometers per hour in next five to 10 years, and the run speed is expected to exceed 500 kilometers per hour in the next 20 years. In the process of optimizing the design, the high-speed railway will save more energy.

Zhang Shuguang said that it is only in less than six years, the running speed of China's high-speed rail increased from 250 kilometers per hour to 350 kilometers per hour and finally to 380 kilometers per hour this year. The 500 kilometers per hour speed test will be made on Beijing-Shanghai section in March next year. It has taken nearly 30 years in the developed countries to complete this process.

Zhang said that the energy-saving effect of high-speed railways is very obvious. The energy consumption of a train with a speed of 350 kilometers per hours is about one-third the energy consumption of a bus, one-sixth of that of a car and one-fourth of that of an aircraft. It also can be more energy efficient by optimizing the aerodynamic shape, reducing running resistance and other technical measures.

China's high-speed train project was first planned in 1992 and was officially launched in 2004. The project adheres to independent innovation and has made significant achievements. Part of the design has been transferred to the United States.

It is understood that developing a higher level of intelligent trains will be one of the Ministry of Science and Technology and Ministry of Railways' key project of the 12th Five-Year Plan and it was included in the national "863 Plan." The intelligent trains will use advanced sensing technology to control the high-speed train's systems and enhance the train's active safety capacity.
Source:http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90...2/7192063.html
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Old November 10th, 2010, 04:44 AM   #3777
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Huge road, rail boost in pipeline

I am not sure if this article provides any insight on future plans for high speed rail expansion in China but....

By Wang Xiaotian (China Daily)
Updated: 2010-11-09

image hosted on flickr

An attendant on the first bullet train of a new high-speed railway linking
Shanghai with Hangzhou prepares to welcome guests before departing for
Hangzhou. China has spelled out massive plans to build high-speed railways.
[Photo / China Daily]


Next five years 'critical period' for China to build transport network

BEIJING - China will set up an 85,000-km national freeway network and a 40,000-km high-speed railway network during the 12th Five-Year Plan (2011-2015), said a leading official from the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC). The freeway network will cover all cities with a population of at least 200,000, while high-speed railways will link cities with more than 500,000 residents, said Wu Xiao, deputy director-general of the NDRC's basic industries department. "The government has eased transport capacity pressures and virtually solved many bottleneck problems... regarding economic and social development," he said at a regional workshop on transport infrastructure in Beijing jointly held by the central government and the Asian Development Bank (ADB).

China's annual investment in transport fixed assets and highway construction now exceeds 1.1 trillion yuan ($165 billion), of which 967 billion yuan was invested in road construction. Wu said that, as a proportion of the overall investment, spending on railways will increase by a large margin while the amount expended on road construction will fall. "Although China has made great improvements in transport development, the country's gross quantity of infrastructure in this respect remains insufficient, and transport in western areas is still underdeveloped," said Li Yong, deputy minister of finance.

The next five years is a critical period for China to promote transport infrastructure construction together with other Asian countries, he added.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 07:16 AM   #3778
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wow, this has to be the largest explosion of construction in the history of mankind, and in such a rapid speed.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 01:23 PM   #3779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
I am not sure if this article provides any insight on future plans for high speed rail expansion in China but....

By Wang Xiaotian (China Daily)
Updated: 2010-11-09

image hosted on flickr

An attendant on the first bullet train of a new high-speed railway linking
Shanghai with Hangzhou prepares to welcome guests before departing for
Hangzhou. China has spelled out massive plans to build high-speed railways.
[Photo / China Daily]


Next five years 'critical period' for China to build transport network

BEIJING - China will set up an 85,000-km national freeway network and a 40,000-km high-speed railway network during the 12th Five-Year Plan (2011-2015), said a leading official from the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC). The freeway network will cover all cities with a population of at least 200,000, while high-speed railways will link cities with more than 500,000 residents, said Wu Xiao, deputy director-general of the NDRC's basic industries department.
That is ambitious! From building 3000 km high speed railways in 8 years (2012 to 2020) to building 27 000 km high speed railways in 3 years (2012 to 2015).

Yet:
Quote:
wow, this has to be the largest explosion of construction in the history of mankind, and in such a rapid speed.
No, it is not the largest.

27 000 km in 3 years? Equivalent to 90 000 km in 10 years, or about 56 000 statute miles.
For comparison, between 1880 and 1890, the US rail network was increased from 88 000 miles to 164 000 miles. An increase of 76 000 miles.

Then again, most of the 164 000 miles in 1890 USA were slow speed, and single track.

1890 USA had, and needed, 164 000 miles (over 260 000 km) railways. China of 2010 has roughly equal territory, but ten times the population. How much railway does China need in 2020 or 2030?
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Old November 10th, 2010, 06:43 PM   #3780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
That is ambitious! From building 3000 km high speed railways in 8 years (2012 to 2020) to building 27 000 km high speed railways in 3 years (2012 to 2015).

Yet:

No, it is not the largest.

27 000 km in 3 years? Equivalent to 90 000 km in 10 years, or about 56 000 statute miles.
For comparison, between 1880 and 1890, the US rail network was increased from 88 000 miles to 164 000 miles. An increase of 76 000 miles.

Then again, most of the 164 000 miles in 1890 USA were slow speed, and single track.

1890 USA had, and needed, 164 000 miles (over 260 000 km) railways. China of 2010 has roughly equal territory, but ten times the population. How much railway does China need in 2020 or 2030?

That is why, it is almost impossible for China to over-invest on rail at least for coming 5-10 years. 25% of the world rail traffic happens in China.
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