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Old November 17th, 2010, 06:54 AM   #3841
GreatChina2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
from today's news, the Shanghai-Beijing High Speed has confirmed to open on Oct 1 2011, 1+ years ahead of schedule.
One of my classmates work in China Railway Construction Corporation says Beijing-Shanghai HSR has been set as the highest priority by MOR, so all suppliers and construction companies have to give exclusive priority to its demands. This affects the progress of Guangzhou-Zhuhai HSR, Taiyuang-Zhongwei-Yinchuan HSR etc.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 07:15 AM   #3842
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The Washington Post has a fresh article about HSR in the USA and mentions China on a few occasions:

Quote:
A rail reality check that President Obama should heed
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn..._Comments.html

They have a point. Passenger rail's competitiveness with air and automobile traffic is far from established - as Amtrak's perennial federal operating subsidies show. Even high-speed bullet trains don't offset enough plane or car traffic to reduce America's carbon footprint by much. The president may admire China's burgeoning high-speed system, but that system is deeply in the red. On major routes, the trains often whiz along half-empty, since the tickets are far too expensive for ordinary Chinese. China recently announced a review of its program in light of a Chinese Academy of Sciences study warning that its debts may be unsustainable.
I just wonder if this is really true? What is the load factor of the trains? Do they really go half-empty? In China? That doesn't sound very credible. Or am I wrong and they really go half empty?

And I thought the relevant Chinese institutions have denied the allegations that the Chinese HSR program is under review. Is MOR really reviewing the HSR plans? It really gets confusing reading such news.

Last edited by Pansori; November 17th, 2010 at 07:21 AM.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 07:57 AM   #3843
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I just found some pictures of high speed rail construction on a Chinese photograph forum (bbs.xiangshu.com). Seems there are a few photographers interested in rail construction. I am going to post some of their work here(pic credits given to each photographer), hope this would not interrupt any ongoing discussion.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 07:58 AM   #3844
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Beijing-Shanghai HSR Construction
photos taken by 老F in Shanghai in August

http://bbs.xiangshu.com/read.php?tid=1994148




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Old November 17th, 2010, 07:58 AM   #3845
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Harbin-Dalian HSR construction
photos taken by 刘惠汉 in Liaoyang
http://bbs.xiangshu.com/read.php?tid=2082426







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Old November 17th, 2010, 08:00 AM   #3846
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Yichang-Wanzhou PDL
photos taken by suangyun in Yichang
http://bbs.xiangshu.com/read.php?tid=2077510





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Old November 17th, 2010, 08:00 AM   #3847
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Wuhan-Yichang HSR construction (will be connected with Yiwan PDL)
photos taken by 周老头 in Lizhou
http://bbs.xiangshu.com/read.php?tid=2068448








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Old November 17th, 2010, 08:03 AM   #3848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
The Washington Post has a fresh article about HSR in the USA and mentions China on a few occasions:



I just wonder if this is really true? What is the load factor of the trains? Do they really go half-empty? In China? That doesn't sound very credible. Or am I wrong and they really go half empty?

And I thought the relevant Chinese institutions have denied the allegations that the Chinese HSR program is under review. Is MOR really reviewing the HSR plans? It really gets confusing reading such news.
Absolutely not !!!

First of all, the tickets are not that expensive and most urbanites can afford the cost of the ticket, not to mention the growing middle class. I have personally travelled on some of the trains and they are definitely not half empty - not even on the red eye trains.

Second, I would think by now people should have learned that the western media just simply make these kind of things up - it is called pride & prejudice. They just can't get over it.

Last edited by stoneybee; November 17th, 2010 at 10:00 PM.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 08:08 AM   #3849
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Nanjing Dashengguan Yangtze Rail Bridge

http://bscw-app1.ethz.ch/pub/bscw.cg...Z.Y.%20Gao.pdf
Quote:
Total length of the Nanjing Dashengguan Bridge is 9.273km, of which the main bridge and the south approach is 3.674km accommodating six track railway (double track for Beijing-Shanghai HSR, double tracks for the Shanghai-Wuhan-Chengdu HSR and double lines for the Nanjing Metro), the length of north approach is 5.599km and designed to accommodate four-track railway.
by 看见风


pic of the bridge under unconstruction in July
by 狂人阿土
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Old November 17th, 2010, 08:09 AM   #3850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneybee View Post
Absolutely not !!!

First of all, the tickets are not that expensive and most urbanites can afford the cost of the ticket, not to mention the growing middle class. I have personal travelled on some of the trains and they are definitely not half empty - not even on the red eye trains.

Second, I would think by now people should have learned that the western media just simply make these kind of things up - it is called pride & prejudice. They just can't get over it.
Yeah I definitely was puzzled by that. High speed rail lines are actually pretty full along the Nanjing-Shanghai line when I was on it. Prices are very reasonable as well... a burger and fries order at a medium tier diner in Shanghai costs around the same as a HSR ticket ~80 RMB just to put it in perspective. Furthermore, I don't think they are targeting the masses of migrant workers but rather people on business and middle class travelers. Think about the vast numbers of people traveling around the country for business...
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Old November 17th, 2010, 09:01 AM   #3851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
The Washington Post has a fresh article about HSR in the USA and mentions China on a few occasions:

I just wonder if this is really true? What is the load factor of the trains? Do they really go half-empty? In China? That doesn't sound very credible. Or am I wrong and they really go half empty?
Riding high speed trains costs more than riding old conventional trains, that is for sure. On some lines one needs to pay 50% extra compared to existing lines. But whether people are 'forced' to take HST or not, ridership is pretty high.

I'll show you an example how some people are portraying low ridership on HSR. Here is a report http://sh.sina.com.cn/news/s/2010-11-04/0809161208.html
The report referred to a forum post claiming the HSTs are 'transporting chairs' since the poster found only one passenger in a coach. His proof is quite straightforward:





A first look at the pictures does give you the impression that no one is taking the HSTs. However, the original poster have twisted the facts to tell his story. The truth is that he took the G7312(mentioned in his post) train which is a non-stop train on Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR starting at 12 at noon (non-rush hour for this line). His seat was in the sixth coach(as is also indicated in his post), and he took the pictures in the 7th or 8th coach. That means at least the previous six coaches were full (the ticketing system is updating but by the time he took those pictures, tickets were assigned in sequence). So even during the low ridership period of the whole day, that HST still had at least 75% (6 out of 8 coaches) of full ridership. Remember that this line was not in service until Oct. 26th and he took the pictures on Nov 2nd, so I'd say such ridership is not that bad at all. However, he successfully convinced many people that the whole train was empty and ridership was 'appalling'.

This is a very popular post. When people talked about low ridership of Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR, that is the one post they refer to. And even journalists wrote articles based on it. The truth behind the pictures is so hard for people to understand. Those people don't care about the fact that for some HSTs during the peak time, even the standing tickets are sold out. Similar posts appeared before for Wuhan-Guangzhou and Shanghai-Nanjing HSRs. But the thing is, even on the busiest metro system in the world, you will still be able to take a picture of a half-empty train during the non-rush hour, let alone a HST.

I don't believe washington post would do their own research on this matter, they probably just looked through the internet, and 'hey, come look at these pictures!'



Quote:
And I thought the relevant Chinese institutions have denied the allegations that the Chinese HSR program is under review. Is MOR really reviewing the HSR plans? It really gets confusing reading such news.
washington post only referred to the financial times report, I think you already posted one of their reports. I noticed they now quoted a Chinese website instead of FT directly, but apparently that website quoted/repeated the FT report. They obviously neglected the MOR clarification(not sure if they were intended to).
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Last edited by fragel; November 17th, 2010 at 09:35 AM.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 09:47 AM   #3852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
English.news.cn
2010-11-15
In domain of China.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
Still, the rapid expansion of the nation's railway network has met with some opposition. According to a report from the China Academy of Science (CAS), one of the country's top think tanks, the loans that have supported the rapid expansion of rail may not be sustainable. Besides, the acceleration in infrastructure investment after the launch of the stimulus package has caused disconnections between transport services across the country, leaving highways, subways, train stations and airports not properly connected, it said. The report, submitted to the State Council, China's cabinet, urged authorities to reconsider whether the government should make such massive investments in infrastructure, especially in high-speed rail.
If the story were purely Western propaganda and lies, would a website in Chinese domain be allowed to repeat it? Does the fact that the story passed censorship prove that government of China is taking it seriously?
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Old November 17th, 2010, 10:01 AM   #3853
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From where I stand I believe both are telling the truth and both are telling a lie. It's completely one faction fighting the next.
Complete false can easily be proven wrong but half false(half truth) is a lot more complicated needing to provide actual ridership figures with projection of the future which may back fire showing weak points leading to a counter argument.
Neither side wants the whole truth out since when one faction wins they can manipulate the truth with the half lie not revealing the whole truth.

One more thing I am not implying it is west vs east, I am talking about factions within the same border.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 11:00 AM   #3854
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A CRH1A train stop at Sanya Railway Station on the Hainan East Ring line.

Hainan East Ring Intercity Rail(308km, 250km/h) will put it into commercial operation in this month.

image hosted on flickr

(Nov. 14, 2010 hinews.cn)

Last edited by HunanChina; November 17th, 2010 at 11:44 AM.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 12:29 PM   #3855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I just wonder if this is really true? What is the load factor of the trains? Do they really go half-empty? In China? That doesn't sound very credible. Or am I wrong and they really go half empty?
Even if they did which they don't its not an issue until the network has been finished. Considering it hasn't the ridership is extremely high. Once people can actually get everywhere by high speed train because the network is finished then is the time to start worrying if the ridership is too low. Which it won't be anyway.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 12:35 PM   #3856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneybee View Post
econd, I would think by now people should have learned that the western media just simply make these kind of things up - it is called pride & prejudice. They just can't get over it.

Don't put all western media in the same bag. All of the 'west' doesn't have the same opinion of a handfull of ignorant xenophopic patriotic and patronising american rightwing news articles.

Facts are not a major element in the American media networks as far as the rest of the 'west' can tell.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 02:31 PM   #3857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Even if they did which they don't its not an issue until the network has been finished. Considering it hasn't the ridership is extremely high. Once people can actually get everywhere by high speed train because the network is finished then is the time to start worrying if the ridership is too low. Which it won't be anyway.
Er, you cannot get everywhere by high speed train even when the network is finished. That is the point! High speed trains are not finished until they are well connected to subways and airports!
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Old November 17th, 2010, 04:57 PM   #3858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Er, you cannot get everywhere by high speed train even when the network is finished. That is the point! High speed trains are not finished until they are well connected to subways and airports!
Don't be obtuse. My point is that it is not fair to criticize a system for low ridership when the system is not complete and passengers are unable to utilize it fully due to the line not being finished, connecting lines not being finished, connecting subway networks not being finished and whatever else.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 05:34 PM   #3859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
My point is that it is not fair to criticize a system for low ridership when the system is not complete and passengers are unable to utilize it fully due to the line not being finished, connecting lines not being finished, connecting subway networks not being finished and whatever else.
And my point is that if the system is poorly planned and connections to subway networks or airports not forthcoming, that is a fair issue to critizise. As is poor planning of construction, if pieces of it are completed in a hurry and then underused for years because of lack of missing links.
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Old November 17th, 2010, 05:44 PM   #3860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Don't put all western media in the same bag. All of the 'west' doesn't have the same opinion of a handfull of ignorant xenophopic patriotic and patronising american rightwing news articles.

Facts are not a major element in the American media networks as far as the rest of the 'west' can tell.


+1

I agree!

Please asian friends, don´t keep thinking of ¨west¨ as a whole.
On one side it´s US and UK with they're particular cosmovision, and on the other side continental Europe.

Their social systems and educational levels are very diffent as well as moral standards. UK+US have double standards.

The it's latin America, and even some countries of former URSS that are definitively not eastern.

shitty press of UK and US is not press but governments right wing propaganda. as well as Nobel Prize and the Vatican.

I´m ¨western caucasian¨ but I´m not an idiot and know last Nobel Prizes from literatura one to peace one are almost McArthists and given by the extreme right of the US to its servents (even if it´s ceremony and foundation are in Scandinavia).

Regarding the Vatican, I perfectly remember when the pope did a massive beatification of 100 chinese that fought against comunism (beatification have never been done in mass before).

I´m sad to say that people behind this are evil, but it´s true.

I wonder if Hypertroll will recieve a Nobel Prize anytime soon...
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