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Old November 18th, 2010, 10:44 AM   #3881
makita09
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
And my point is that if the system is poorly planned and connections to subway networks or airports not forthcoming, that is a fair issue to critizise. As is poor planning of construction, if pieces of it are completed in a hurry and then underused for years because of lack of missing links.
So what if that was your point, I wasn't responding to it. Your point is a different point to the one made in the news article.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 11:06 AM   #3882
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There were already several chinese reports regarding concern about HSR expansion months ago.

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High-speed rail doesn't add up, planner says (SCMP)

2010-03-03

A researcher with the powerful National Development and Reform Commission has openly questioned China's ambitious high-speed rail plan, saying it is not economic. Liu Bin, a transport researcher at the government's top planning body, was quoted by Xinhua's Economy and Nation Weekly yesterday as saying the network - with trains running at up to 350km/h - faced major problems in recouping its construction costs. "At this pricing level, high-speed rail is being put into competition with domestic airlines," he said. "The civil aviation market is a very limited one, and high-speed rail might not be able to achieve its minimum passenger loads to break even." Xinhua also reported yesterday that the aggressive plan to build 18,000 kilometres of high-speed railway, the world's longest such network, would raise the Ministry of Railways' total debt to 3 trillion yuan by 2020. Earlier reports have said investment in the network in the next six years is expected to total 3.7 trillion yuan. Many experts have queried the high-speed railway project, launched in 2008. In January, Weng Zhensong, a professor at the ministry's economic and planning research institute, said there were problems with pricing high-speed rail services. "If the price is too high, nobody will take them. If the price is too low, there will be financing difficulties," Weng said. The economic costs and benefits of high-speed rail lines have also featured prominently in the debate over Hong Kong's plans to link to the national network. At HK$66.9 billion, the 26 kilometres of track to the mainland border, linking up with a line to Guangzhou, will cost about HK$2.57 billion a kilometre, making it the world's most expensive railway for its length. Because high-speed railways are so expensive, analysts say they really compete with airlines, not conventional rail networks. And they say they only compete effectively with airlines on journeys between cities less than 1,000 kilometres apart. Economy and Nation Weekly put passenger loads for the high-speed line from Beijing to Tianjin at about 50,000 a day, or 18 million a year, far below forecasts of 38 million. Liu said he was concerned the high-speed railway network would result in huge maintenance, operating and energy costs. However, his concerns were brushed aside by Ministry of Railways spokesman Wang Yongping, who said the investment in high-speed railways was far lower than other countries' because local governments provided the land needed, labour was cheap and construction costs and materials were centrally co-ordinated.

source : south china morning post(www.scmp.com)

Quote:
高铁亏损:制度成“黑洞”

发布: 2010-4-10 09:03 | 作者: 吕静 | 来源: 中国经营报

高铁繁荣的“背后”,似乎还隐藏着鲜为人知的另一面。

  运营京津高铁的京津城际铁路有限责任公司(下称“京津高铁”)是一家不折不扣的企业,当一个完整的“财政年度”过去后,京津高铁意料之中的“亏损”还是让这家公司的高管层十分郁闷。

  不管亏损的额度是7亿元还是8亿元,作为融资平台、建设业主方、运营管理方的京津高铁的公司收入却只能从铁道部拿到“分配”下来的运营收入,而高额的用电成本、安全投入以及银行贷款的付息,却都由京津高铁承担——亏损的背后,又是铁路体制“作祟”。

7亿还是8亿?

  “凡是已经开通的高铁,没有一条不亏的。”一位不愿具名的京津高铁内部人士向《中国经营报》记者透露,而记者从多家高铁运营的“合作方”处了解到,“高铁亏损”也是各高铁公司对他们经常提及的“情况”。

  记者掌握的情况表明,铁道部将按年度对各条高铁的运营情况进行汇总,并作为相关文件材料的附件下发。而对于京津高铁的运营情况,这份材料的附件表格上显示的数据是——亏损8亿元。

  此前,有媒体援引铁路系统人士的计算分析称,京津高铁运营一年的亏损额度为7亿元,但《中国经营报》记者经多方求证,无法证实这一数字的准确性。

  对此,高铁公司一位高级负责人向记者表示,亏损额度无论是7亿元还是8亿元,都不准确。但当被记者问及亏损的准确额度时,他只是表示,等到高铁公司能够实现上市的那一天,所有亏损额度以及成本投入都将按照上市公司的要求予以公开。

  记者致电铁道部证实以上情况时,却被高铁正在如火如荼建设、一切运营良好而回绝。

  “项目在初期建设立项时我们做了很多数据,现在的实事证明,我们原来对高铁的运营成本估计的太低了,其实成本高出预计,而当时我们也只是用运量简单的来衡量收入,对收入预期也太乐观。”一位不愿具名的高铁公司高管向记者表示。

  国家发改委的数据显示,京津高铁共投资215亿元,高铁建设投资约为120亿元,占总投入近56% 。记者在向高铁公司证实建设是否是成本投入最大的项目时,得到的回应却是“铁道部现在最注重高铁安全,所以高铁安全维护的成本比例也高得惊人。”

制度“造亏”

  在高铁亏损背后,一条由铁道部、高铁公司、地方政府构成的利益链条,渐次清晰起来,而这一次,传统的铁路运营制度成为了高铁公司亏损的主因之一。

  《中国经营报》记者了解到,高铁公司把高铁交由铁道部后,铁道部就全权负责铁路运营,每月铁道部会通过财务司的计费系统将每条线路的收入核算出来,再分派给各高铁公司。但问题在于,铁道部每月给高铁公司分的钱只够支付银行贷款的利息,高铁公司不但没收入,还需自行支付购车、运营和维护成本。

  要想解决亏损,“并不是提高票价那么简单。”北京铁路局一位知情人士告诉记者。据了解,由于铁道部是政企合一的机构,其内部的计费系统还保持着计划经济时的旧有体制。不光是高铁,就连普通铁路每年的收入多少都由铁道部说了算。“他们给我们分多少,我们就拿多少,至于这个数字是怎么算出来的,我们也不清楚。”

  实际上,高铁项目前期征地和后期运营费用也是“贵族消费”。为了保证高铁建设,高铁公司不得不支付高额的拆迁赔偿。

  与此同时,与地方政府的利益协调,也是造成高铁公司运营现状的原因——由于高铁的用电量非常大,所以地方政府为了提高收益,供给高铁用的电不是生活或工业性用电,而是商业用电。

  知情人士透露,当时京津高铁与地方政府商议用电价格时,还被地方政府“黑”了一下,最后京津高铁拿到的用电价格比地方商业用电还要高。

  据了解,用电价格共分为四种,居民生活用电费用最低,商业用电最高。北京商业用电价格为1.2到1.5元/度,生活用电却只有0.48元/度。京津高铁的用电价格远远超出这些供电的价格水平。

  “每个地方的电价是由当地供电局自己设定的,并没有固定标准,高铁车行驶到不同地方,都得按照当地政府规定的价格来计算。”铁道部内部人员透露。

尴尬业主方

  高铁建设的主体——高铁公司,在完成高铁建设后,地位就变得尴尬起来。

  京津高铁公司最初是由铁道部、北京市政府、天津市政府分别以38.57%、37.14%、24.29%的比例共同投资组建的。之后,中海油服作为社会资金宣布参与该高铁投资,获得京津城际高铁19.5%的股权。

  由于是地方高铁线路,铁道部全权委托北京铁路局统一管理和统筹,而北京基础设施建设投资有限公司与天津市基础设施建设投资集团也作为北京与天津市政府的代表共同投资高铁项目。

  高铁公司的人员分配基本上是:当地铁路局派出人员与各股东所属公司分派人员共同组成。拿京津高铁举例:北京铁路局委派一名副局长担任高铁公司总经理,其他则按照各投资方控股比例进行人员分配。

  “有多少条高铁线路,就有多少个高铁公司。”原铁道部运输局有关人士告诉记者。由于高铁投资巨大,铁道部必须联同高铁经过城市的当地政府和一些社会资金共同组成高铁公司。再由高铁公司出面融资、建设。这么看来,高铁公司俨然成为高铁的业主方。

  此业主非彼业主。高铁公司在融资、建设结束后,就必须把高铁线路全权交回至铁道部运营,自此高铁公司就不再是“业主”了。“高铁完工后我们想进入现场,或在高铁路段上拿小铲子动一下土都是不可能的事。”一位高铁公司的员工告诉记者。

  虽然目前京津高铁的注册资金是87亿元,可按照高铁公司介绍的一公里高铁造价约1亿元人民币计算,全长120公里的京津高铁,光铁路基础建设就需要投入120亿元。这还不算购车、维护、运营、安全成本等其他硬性开销。

  据了解,京津高铁的贷款额度超过50亿元以上。奇怪的是,这其中全部为商业贷款,而之前传得沸沸扬扬的国家开发银行介入却并不是实事。国家开发银行一位内部人士介绍,国开行至今只提供150亿元贷款用来开发高速列车技术开发,对于实质的铁路建设并没有贷款计划。

source : http://www.cbmedia.cn/html/11/n-57011.html
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Old November 18th, 2010, 11:36 AM   #3883
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But if they wait until the economy is developed to make the lines profitable before building high speed trains, the cost of construction will have soared many times, by which time the complaints about the expense will be even louder. Better to build earlier and put up with a period of losses, then.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 11:57 AM   #3884
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Isn't the HSR plan part of the stimulus (not the entire HSR plan of course), hence economic viability may not be the top consideration?
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Old November 18th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #3885
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Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
But if they wait until the economy is developed to make the lines profitable before building high speed trains, the cost of construction will have soared many times, by which time the complaints about the expense will be even louder. Better to build earlier and put up with a period of losses, then.
The thing is that the economy will not be fully developed, without the highspeed railway contributing to the efficiency of traveling and reduction in pollution. Therefore the railway still need to be built, to keep under control the hundreds of millions of cars usage.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 08:19 PM   #3886
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Train Makers Rail Against China's High-Speed Designs
18 November 2010
The Wall Street Journal

QINGDAO, China -- When the Japanese and European companies that pioneered high-speed rail agreed to build trains for China, they thought they'd be getting access to a booming new market, billions of dollars worth of contracts and the cachet of creating the most ambitious rapid rail system in history.

What they didn't count on was having to compete with Chinese firms who adapted their technology and turned it against them just a few years later.

Today, Chinese rail companies that were once junior partners with the likes of Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd., Siemens AG, Alstom SA and Bombardier Inc. are vying against them in the burgeoning global market for super-fast train systems. From the U.S. to Saudi Arabia to Brazil and in China itself, Chinese companies are selling trains that in most cases are faster than those offered by their foreign rivals. On a recent visit to China, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he is interested in Chinese help to build a planned high-speed line in his state.

The progression of China's rail business reflects a national economic strategy of boosting state-owned firms and obtaining advanced technology, even at the expense of foreign partners. It's an approach that is challenging the U.S. and other powers, and fueling a broader angst among multinational firms doing business here.

Industries such as autos and aerospace have long sought to tap China's vast market, entering into joint ventures that have brought them enormous reward. But by handing over their technology, some companies have opened the door for homegrown competitors to compete in the global marketplace. China's market share of manufacturing of advanced machinery could climb to 30% of global exports within the decade, from 8% today, said Min Zhu, special adviser for the International Monetary Fund and former deputy governor of the People's Bank of China, at Monday's Wall Street Journal CEO Council.

China acknowledges that the trains its own companies are now selling were developed using foreign technology. But officials say domestic companies like China South Locomotive & Rolling Stock Industry (Group) Corp., or CSR, added their own innovations that make the final product Chinese. "China's railway industry produced this new generation of high-speed train sets by learning and systematically compiling and re-innovating foreign high-speed train technology," the Railways Ministry said in a faxed response to questions. Some foreign executives say that such "re-innovating," if it involves selling the trains overseas, is a violation of China's agreements with them.

The future of China's rail industry is being assembled amid a flurry of welding sparks in a sprawling CSR manufacturing complex in the port city of Qingdao. Called the CRH380A, the newest train is equipped with first-class seats that fold completely flat, and it can go up to 236 miles per hour. When it goes into service in 2012 linking Beijing and Shanghai, the train will cut travel time to four hours from 10, and will be part of a network that is expected to extend 9,700 miles by 2020.

CSR obtained Japanese high-speed technology starting in 2004 as part of a deal with Kawasaki. CSR engineers and executives say they have adapted and improved that technology to make trains that are faster and better. The fastest trains now operating in Japan and Europe run about 199 mph.

Smiling proudly on the factory floor before half-assembled sections of the needle-nosed, blue-and-silver CRH380A trains, Liang Jianying, a senior CSR engineer, explains how the company reduced wheel-to-track friction and made the train more aerodynamic. "We improved, optimized, and self-innovated . . . and came up with a brand new design," she says.

"See, this is nothing like Kawasaki's bullet train," chimes in Wu Qunliang, chief spokesman for the CSR factory. "Real original innovation is rare," adds Wang Xinhong, another senior engineer. "We attained our achievements in high-speed train technology by standing on the shoulders of past pioneers."

Foreign companies are generally reluctant to criticize the powerful Railways Ministry publicly. Bernd Eitel, a spokesman for Siemens, says the German company has "a trusting relationship" with its Chinese partners and expects that to continue. Bombardier China President Zhang Jiawei said in a statement that "we have contracts and agreements, and both sides respect" them. A spokeswoman for the French company Alstom declined to comment, citing the "sensitive nature" of the subject.

But Kawasaki, in a statement, says it and other high-speed train producers disagree with China's claim that it has created its own technology. Most of its trains in operation today, some executives say, are almost exactly the same as its foreign partners' trains. They cite a few tweaks to the exterior paint scheme and interior trims and a beefed-up propulsion systems for faster speeds. "China says she owns exclusive rights to that intellectual property, but Kawasaki and other foreign companies feel otherwise," Kawasaki said in a statement, adding that it hopes to resolve the issue through commercial talks. Kawasaki says it is emphasizing in those negotiations that its technology-transfer contracts with the Railways Ministry state that the technology is for use exclusively within China, and that Chinese companies can't use it in products they intend to export.

Privately, some executives are more blunt. "Claiming most of the recently developed bullet trains as China's own may be good for national pride . . . but it's nothing but deceitful propaganda," says a senior executive at Kawasaki. "How are you supposed to fight rivals when they have your technology, and their cost base is so much lower," the executive adds.

Other countries have also used and adapted foreign technology. Post-war Japan pulled off its transformation in part by reverse-engineering foreign technologies, eventually developing a stable of tech companies, steel producers, shipbuilders and auto makers, including Honda and Toyota. South Korea followed a similar path.

What's unique about China is its vast domestic market, which makes foreign companies willing to hand over their technology know-how for a piece of the action. As China increasingly favors domestic suppliers, it's able to up the ante further, demanding that companies who want to do business transfer ever more advanced technologies. "Any company bringing new technology, innovation or ideas to China has to deal with shanzhai, what one could readily refer to as 'bandit' culture," says Andrew Forbes Winkler, an analyst with Commodore Research & Consultancy in New York. "From cellphones to automobiles, Chinese companies have taken pride in using others' intellectual property and either innovating or counterfeiting goods."

China's high-speed rail ambitions are already global. China Railway Group Ltd., a civil-engineering company, is participating in a high-speed rail project in Venezuela. China Railway Construction Corp. is helping build a high-speed line in Turkey linking Ankara and Istanbul. China's Railway ministry has said Chinese companies are bidding for contracts in Brazil, and that Russia, Saudi Arabia and Poland have expressed interest. The Obama administration, which has allotted $8 billion to build high-speed train networks, has said it is open to bids from Chinese companies. A U.S. Department of Transportation spokeswoman declined to comment on the dispute with Kawasaki.

Gov. Schwarzenegger's office declined to comment about his interest in Chinese trains, but Jeffrey Barker, a deputy executive director of the California High-Speed Rail Authority, said the state is years away from taking bids from manufacturers and that when it does, the "process will certainly ensure that any technology transferred to the United States is done so properly, in accordance with all intellectual-property laws."

High-speed rail was pioneered in post-war Japan in the 1950s and early 1960s with the construction of the Shinkansen. France, Germany and other European countries followed suit in the 1980s. Serious thinking about building faster rail in China began in the 1990s, with the aim of developing the poor hinterland. But efforts fizzled.

The government looked abroad. In 2004, it signed deals to buy trains from Alstom and Kawasaki, which shipped the first batch over fully assembled. Later, the companies helped set up production facilities within China. They trained Chinese engineers while helping the country develop its own supply chain for train components. Siemens and Bombardier later signed similar deals. Executives from Siemens and Kawasaki both say they were eager for contracts, and feared that if they didn't do deals with China, their competitors would. They say they didn't expect Chinese companies to be a competitive threat for many years, maybe decades.

Kawasaki's 2004 deal with the Railways Ministry, worth 80 billion yen, or about $760 million at the time, included transfer of the whole spectrum of technology and know-how for the iconic bullet train called Hayate, or "fresh breeze," to Qingdao Sifang Locomotive & Rolling Stock Co., a CSR unit. The Chinese company called the train, capable of speeds up to 155 mph, the Hexie Hao, or "Harmony," echoing a political slogan of Chinese President Hu Jintao.

Kawasaki exported nine Hayate train sets to China. It then helped produce 51 additional Hayates in China, partly using components imported from Japan. Kawasaki took dozens of CSR engineers to Japan for training. Some later helped set up the Qingdao factory, which now churns out about 200 train sets a year. Over the ensuing years, China asked Kawasaki and others to provide additional technology to make its trains go even faster. Each time Kawasaki signed a deal, it gained "several million dollars" as a fee, according to the senior Kawasaki executive.

Some executives questioned the wisdom of dealing with China. "We didn't take part in the export project to China," says Yoshiyuki Kasai, chairman of Central Japan Railway Co. "The conditions were not favorable -- they wanted all the technology to be transferred for free. That was not good for us."

CSR and the other main Chinese train maker, China North Locomotive & Rolling Stock Industry (Group) Corp., began producing trains that operated at even higher speeds. In late 2007, ahead of the Beijing Olympics, China opened a high-speed rail line linking the capital and the port city of Tianjin. It operated at a top speed of 205 mph. Last year, another line started with trains running up to 217 mph.

Some say China's rise as a new train power brings more good to the industry than bad, helping to push others to build their own networks. Says Murray King, a rail analyst at research firm APCO Worldwide Inc.: "You have to give at least partial credit to China."

---

Kersten Zhang, Sue Feng, Gao Sen and Josh Mitchell contributed to this article.
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Old November 18th, 2010, 11:39 PM   #3887
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waaaaaaah waaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah somebody call the waaaaaaaaaaaaambulance
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Old November 19th, 2010, 02:09 AM   #3888
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"They say they didn't expect Chinese companies to be a competitive threat for many years, maybe decades"

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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Train Makers Rail Against China's High-Speed Designs
18 November 2010
The Wall Street Journal

They say they didn't expect Chinese companies to be a competitive threat for many years, maybe decades.
The overall tone of the report is very bitter and there are many factual errors, but the key is the above quotes.

The Kawasaki technology is the older generation in Japan and Japan refused to transfer their cutting-edge ones, understandably.

You have to give credit to Chinese government and Chinese engineers. The Chinese government had planned, years earlier, the largest scale HSR network in the world and committed to fund the program - it takes foresight and careful planning. The Chinese engineers had worked hard and smart to overcome all the barriers in a short time period and exceed everyone's expectations.

The foreign companies are not losers; the scale and size of China's HSR build-out are indeed mouth-watering, but China would simply not be going to invest so much money before mastering the technology - it would wait until its manufacturers mastered them. The foreign companies are still reaping billions of dollars contracts by being suppliers. Plus, China is aggressively pushing the technology envelop, such that foreign suppliers are also being able to gain valuable experiences and improve their technologies - Think about Bombardier: they would not have had the opportunity to develop and build 380 kmh class trains had it not for the large Chinese orders.

And, don't get jealous just because China is competing world-wide for HSR orders. Without China setting a good example on such a scale, the world-wide interest and market for HSR won't be very large. How many decades have passed since the Japanese built the first HSR? And how many miles of HSR had the world built before China entered the picture?

For the developing countries, be grateful that China has brought and will bring down the cost of HSR so that more countries can afford it. Why India's cell phone market has grown so fast and so large? Hint: Huawei and ZTE.

To the advanced countries' train manufacturers: don't be bitter, be competitive.

Last edited by highway35; November 19th, 2010 at 02:14 AM. Reason: Editing
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Old November 19th, 2010, 05:17 AM   #3889
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enjoy!!

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Old November 19th, 2010, 05:27 AM   #3890
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Old November 19th, 2010, 05:36 AM   #3891
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WOW, looks like roller coasters
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Old November 19th, 2010, 05:39 AM   #3892
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Wow. The Beijing-Shanghai line is gonna be amazing once it's running!
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:52 AM   #3893
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WOW, looks like roller coasters
Yes, it does, but remember telephoto effect of a camera lens too.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:57 AM   #3894
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It would be amazing to get a shot of a storage site with the CRH380As all lined up next to one another.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 08:15 AM   #3895
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Amazing!!!!!!!!! Thanks a lot for sharing.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 09:26 AM   #3896
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OMG the SIM CITY HSR network addon is actually real!!! It looks just like it!!!

SOOOO Jealous.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 12:14 PM   #3897
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TWO GIANTS MEET: INDIA RAILWAYS AND CHINA RAILWAYS COMPARE NOTES

http://www.namnewsnetwork.org/v2/read.php?id=139627

BEIJING, Nov 18 (NNN-WORLDBANK) -- Collectively India Railways and China Railways employ nearly 4 million employees, operate tens of thousands of kilometers of railways, and can move millions of people each day. Arguably, the two railways drive the economies of the two most populated countries of the world; two railways serving one out of three people on this planet.

On Oct 24 an eight-member government delegation from India arrived in China, sponsored by the World Bank's South to South Experience Exchange Trust Fund, to meet with counterparts at the China Ministry of Railways with the aim of learning from each other. The visitors from India included managers, economists, financiers, and engineers.

Although the railways in China and India are already among the largest in the world, both governments are aggressively promoting the expansion and modernization of the respective railways.

Why? Because the governments of each believe that railways play a critical role in the economic growth of these continental size developing countries and do so with reduced environmental impact and resource consumption.

Sharing experience and knowledge with another country facing similar challenges and resolving them in sometimes different ways stimulates innovation and energizes change.

As an active financer and promoter of the development of railways in both China and India, the World Bank is well positioned to convene an authoritative exchange of knowledge using the mechanism of the South-South Experience Exchange Trust Fund, which is particularly suited to such challenges.

The Indian delegation began by studying the process followed in China for long term planning and financing of the rail sector, development of specific projects, and engineering design and construction. China's medium and long term plan for railways aims to expand its railway network between 2005 and 2020, from 65,000 route-km to 120,000 route km. As India is also planning for a significant expansion of its rail network, this opening topic sparked a lively discussion and debate.

From there the discussions ranged from the planning of China's high speed network, to technologies employed, implementation arrangements and quality control. With high speed rail an option for India's railway development, only time limited the exchange.

The group visited the new and futuristic railway stations recently opened at Beijing South and Tianjin and traveled on the high speed train between these two cities at a speed that reached 330 km/h.

From high speed passenger travel the group moved to heavy haul freight transport including visiting the Datong-Qinhuangdao (DaQin) dedicated coal railway that is at present alone transporting 400 million tons of coal per year. Along this line 20,000-ton coal trains can reach a length of over 7 km pulled by powerful electric locomotives over an extra heavy duty track and driving down operating costs.

The Indian Railway is expected to adopt some of the technical and operational features of DaQin line on the dedicated freight corridors that are being planned and are under construction in India.

At the end of the weeklong visit, the delegation moved to logistics. Transportation hubs, where several modes converge and handling and storage is concentrated, have proven to be effective and efficient in reducing costs and time of transport. Both China and India are establishing such hubs and so it was fitting that a visit to an ambitious inland logistics park under construction in the City of Xi'an takes place.

An exchange provides for a two-way interface and though this visit focused on India studying China, past and future exchanges have brought and will bring China Railways to India. And both parties agree that the Bank serves as an effective and informed convener for such exchanges. Several members of the India delegation have taken their time to share their experience during this exchange:

Rahul Kumar Goel was particularly impressed by two aspects of Chinese Railways which he suggested can be applied to India. "One is that you have to develop a long term and creditable plan, and convince others that you will stick to it. The second would be the high level of design quality of all engineering aspects of high speed railway projects so that project implementation is carried out without any technical changes."

Jagmohan Gupta was much impressed by the efficient process of project planning, formulation and implementation on Chinese railways. He said the speed with which Chinese Railways implemented their project is amazing and Indian Railway can learn a lot from them. Regarding funding, he said that "despite these projects being capital intensive, the Chinese railways were able to mobilize the funding from various sources other than the central government."

Mr. Gupta cited flexible pricing as another lesson which Indian railway can borrow from the Chinese railways. "We visited the high speed line from Beijing to Tianjin, and we found that during the peak hours, the rates are different and when we were returning, the price of the ticket was lower. Similarly when we were taking a journey to Xi'an, I found the lower berth was priced higher than the upper berth."

Vinay Kumar Singh urged that interactions such as this one be conducted more often. "We are also looking to develop some high speed tracks in India and we could gain a lot by technical discussions with our counterparts in China" he said. -- NNN-WORLD BANK
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Old November 19th, 2010, 03:14 PM   #3898
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where high speed rail reachs,the house price doubles.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #3899
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Quote:
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Rahul Kumar Goel was particularly impressed by two aspects of Chinese Railways which he suggested can be applied to India. "One is that you have to develop a long term and creditable plan, and convince others that you will stick to it. The second would be the high level of design quality of all engineering aspects of high speed railway projects so that project implementation is carried out without any technical changes."

Jagmohan Gupta was much impressed by the efficient process of project planning, formulation and implementation on Chinese railways.


take this FT!!!!
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:56 PM   #3900
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take this FT!!!!
that showed them.
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