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Old May 29th, 2007, 12:42 AM   #381
tiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pflo777 View Post
the three picutres I postet from the guidway are not from chinese media.
The pic of the vehicle UD2 linked in here is from a forum
But the original producer is probably Chinese media.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pflo777 View Post
The only thing thats funny, but its not funny any more, is that not a single pic is provided by you guys. For SWFC everyday, one or two are uploaded....
And they must confirm that it's not originated from media.Who can?you?
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Old May 29th, 2007, 01:02 AM   #382
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the three photos of the guidway were taken by a group of students form Tongji...

I mean, you could just go there take some pics, upload them to flickr, link them here, an thats it.


Just like thousand others do with SWFC, Pudong airport Extension and millions of other projects in china....

If you want to, I could go to munich airport and take some pics of our maglev, thats shown there, in return

And a picture is something different than a scientific paper

Last edited by pflo777; May 29th, 2007 at 01:09 AM.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 01:12 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by pflo777 View Post
the three photos of the guidway were taken by a group of students form Tongji...
Why don't you ask if they are employed by any media at the same time since you're so suspicious.In your logic,Anyone might be a Chinese politician that trys to do some propaganda on the forums including on SSC.Who do you believe?How to justify your choice.

Quote:
And a picture is something different than a scientific paper
What's the difference when everything in the photo could be PSed nowadays.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 02:24 AM   #384
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This thread used to be a useful discussion of the developments in the Chinese Railways which I enjoyed .

This rancorous shouting about the international politics of MagLev may interest some so please go away and create your own thread called MagLev politics and return this thread to its original purpose which was railways not MagLev
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Old May 29th, 2007, 03:42 AM   #385
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^ fine by me, I'll leave the thread. Too few people seem to have any manners or understanding of what does and does not constitute theft and fair terms. I don't much appreciate being called an idiot either, again quite rude.

My final word is that buying a product does not give you the right to copy it. If China wants to play like that then I wish it luck in destroying the world economy which is based on trust, the rule of law and property rights something that clearly hasn't sunk in yet.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 05:00 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestonian View Post
^ fine by me, I'll leave the thread. Too few people seem to have any manners or understanding of what does and does not constitute theft and fair terms. I don't much appreciate being called an idiot either, again quite rude.

My final word is that buying a product does not give you the right to copy it. If China wants to play like that then I wish it luck in destroying the world economy which is based on trust, the rule of law and property rights something that clearly hasn't sunk in yet.
Who cares?! You shouldn't have jumped into the fighting at the beginning. You covered your ears from all the background information other people provide to you about this whole event, you made all the accusations about China stealing this, stealing that on this mag-lev project without having any proof to support them, and you made all those totally groundless judgements that China smeared the mag-lev technology, China broke the agreement and gave Germany a hard time. How would you expect Chinese to respond to you? Do you expect us to be sheepish and shut up our mouths?!

And wow, you are leaving now, with another big slogan left behind, accusing other people not knowing how to do things properly. So what? That gives you the sense of victory and superiority? Give us a break!

Last edited by ningxiard; May 29th, 2007 at 05:11 AM.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 12:42 PM   #387
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Well, this whole thread has been nicely ruined. I have no sympathy though. I tend to side with China in arguments like this, giving it the benefit of the doubt, but this time I just can't. Unless Transrapid publicly state that they did sell or lease the patents for the core technology to the Chinese, I will class this Chinese built version as an illegal copy.


You cannot just copy someone else's technology and pass it off as your own, it's theft, pure and simple. If someone can show me the details of the patents sold or leased by Transrapid that give the Chinese the right to copy the German technology then I'm absolutely willing to accept that this is legitimate. So far I have seen no such evidence...
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Old May 29th, 2007, 02:01 PM   #388
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http://www.euro2day.gr/articlesfna/35727501/


Shanghai backtracks on reports of maglev train project suspension
29/5/2007 11:23 London Time | story 0756



SHANGHAI (XFN-ASIA) - Shanghai officials have backtracked on state-media reports that plans to build a high-speed magnetic levitation train linking Shanghai and the eastern city of Hangzhou have been suspended due to health concerns.
Zhang Qing, a spokeswoman of the Shanghai government, said there has been no notice of any suspension of the project.
Separately, an official of the Shanghai Maglev Company, which operates the current maglev line in city, said he was also unaware of any project suspension.
On Sunday, the state-owned Xinhua news agency, citing unnamed Shanghai officials, reported that the 170 km project has been suspended following petitions from residents living along the proposed route worried about possible health problems from the maglev''s high powered magnets.
The maglev uses powerful magnets to drive trains at speeds of up to 430 km per hour.


****it seems even inside china nobody knows whats really going on******
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Old May 29th, 2007, 02:24 PM   #389
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The Chinese media seems to have absolutely no credibility! How can a state controlled media have so little idea of what's going on?
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Old May 29th, 2007, 02:34 PM   #390
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This thread reminds me of a story I once heard about a Dutch machine manufacturer that shipped one of it's machines to China to show it on a trade fair. But during the transport it took some damage and it had a few dents when it went on show. A year later the same manufacturer came back to the trade fair and was surprised to see an exact copy of his machine made by a Chinese manufacturer. The best thing was that it also included the dents that shouldn't have been there. The moral of the story is that it's no secret that some Chinese companies steal foreign technology. In the long run it will even be harmful for the Chinese economy, there are already cases of companies that build new factories in Europe rather then in China even when the costs are higher because of the technology theft.

On the other hand Europeans have stolen lot's of ancient technology from China in the past, without giving credit. This also shows that China has a tradition of making inventions, in order to keep the current economic boom sustainable they need to pick up that tradition again.

Anyway I hope in this case of the maglev that the chinese put in a solid crashzone, last year maglev accident in Germany clearly shows that it's needed even when there is supossed to be lot's of security measures to protect any collisions. If you copy technology, try to make it even better!
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Old May 29th, 2007, 03:22 PM   #391
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I completely agree with Momo1435, it could be harmful for the chinese economy if cases like this one happen again along time.
I don't know (and don't understand) why if the chinese made their own maglev (if it's their own) they didn't change the design of the Maglev. Why would you make something that looks EXACTLY (well, it has a different livery) the same as other's one and clame later on you've used your own technology when you know international opinion won't give you credit for it? I seriously can't understand it. That's not much R&D on aerodynamics, I'll say...
You have another example with that chinese train that looks fairly equal to Siemens' ICE3. Although the mechanical equipment is completely different, it looks as a huge rip-off from Siemens' ICE3s design, and they didn't get it quite right...
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Old May 29th, 2007, 04:51 PM   #392
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上海回应有关沪杭磁悬浮项目暂停消息
http://www.sina.com.cn 2007年05月29日11:23 浙江在线 (来源:21世纪经济报道)
  各界瞩目的沪杭磁悬浮工程再次被推到风口浪尖。

  近日有媒体引述有关消息人士的发言称,“目前沪杭磁悬浮项目已经暂停”。

  5月28日,上海市政府新闻办在回答本报提问时表示,“我们已专门向市政府相关职能部门了解此事,现在暂时没有‘暂停’的消息”。

  工程是否获批?

  而据本报了解,之前关于所谓国务院 “批准”沪杭磁悬浮项目的说法也存在着理解上的偏差。

  有轨道交通专家解释说,这里的“批准”并不是确定要建磁悬浮,而只是批准立项进行可行性研究

  然而早在2006年10月,所谓的“沪杭磁悬浮上海段”工程已经开始进行拆迁。拆迁过程引发沿线居民争议,双方争执至今未得到解决,“暂停”的传闻可能与此有关。

  既然尚未获批准,为什么就开始拆迁了?据了解,相关部委确曾批准过上海市“机场快速公交系统”。而这实际上就是当前媒体所说的沪杭磁悬浮上海段。此后相关拆迁公告上,仍然标注拆迁建设项目为“上海机场快速公交系统基地”,但房屋拆迁人却是“上海磁浮交通发展有限公司”。

  相关专家评价说,这种名称上的变换有打擦边球之嫌。

  拆迁争议

  目前关于沪杭磁悬浮上海段的最大争议,是沿线居民对磁悬浮环境影响的质疑。居民们提出,为什么德国磁悬浮两边预留300米空间,而上海部分路段只留了22.5米?如此近的距离是否会导致电磁辐射影响居民身体健康?

  早在2006年6月,上海市环境科学研究院、浙江省环境保护科学设计研究院就已拿出了《沪杭磁浮交通工程环境影响报告书》。该报告事实上已对电磁辐射状况作出评估:“根据监测结果,沿线静磁场、工频(50Hz)电场、磁场、5Hz-5kHz磁场、无线电干扰、电视信号均符合环境标准。”

  有长期从事磁悬浮工作的人士说,并没有发现自己及孩子身体有何异常。

  也有专家告诉记者,“德国为什么预留300米防护带,其实德国自己也没有一个标准,为了防止对人体影响,所以预留多一点”。

  曾经参加上海磁悬浮(龙阳路段)环评工作的同济大学环境科学与工程学院评价室主任杨海真教授说,“我们在(龙阳路段)第一个磁悬浮项目做好了之后,没有做好后续的工作,没有做测试方面的科学研究。所以我们还有好多东西不知道,认识还不充足。”

  预留22.5米还是300米不是单纯环保问题,因为这意味着不同的拆迁量。“如果要求300米的话,因为是穿过市区,就会有很大的拆迁量,这个项目就很困难了”,杨海真说

  “归根结底,还是磁悬浮的技术不成熟,安全性尚不了解”,一位轨道交通专家评论道

  此外,根据前述《沪杭磁浮交通工程环境影响报告书》的预计,这一工程的“施工期持续时间将为2年左右”。

  据悉,国家环保总局已责成建设单位在编制环评报告过程中要保证公众充分参与,采取听证会等形式广泛征求沿线居民意见。
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Old May 29th, 2007, 04:55 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Well, this whole thread has been nicely ruined. I have no sympathy though. I tend to side with China in arguments like this, giving it the benefit of the doubt, but this time I just can't. Unless Transrapid publicly state that they did sell or lease the patents for the core technology to the Chinese, I will class this Chinese built version as an illegal copy.
Again, know what you are talking about before you open your mouth, it is annoying. The resemblance is body, not core technology, which China has not obtained it.

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You cannot just copy someone else's technology and pass it off as your own, it's theft, pure and simple. If someone can show me the details of the patents sold or leased by Transrapid that give the Chinese the right to copy the German technology then I'm absolutely willing to accept that this is legitimate. So far I have seen no such evidence...
1. Everyone is innocent until proven guity. 2. The Tongji tech vehicle is not a secret, everyone can have a visit.

@Pfo777, is there any chance that you can email the photo to Transrapid to see whether they have any comments.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #394
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Wow, more guys are eager to jump in and spread all those hearsays, gossips, and change this thread into "China Stealing the IP from every country in the world" propoganda machine. Feel free to do whatever you want to do on this forum as long as the Mods allow you the freedom to do that, but, keep this your mind, the debate that has been going on so far in this thread is about the Mag-lev line. Start a new thread to satisfy your irrepressible urge of criticizing China on IP issue.

And read the previous posts in this thread carefully, at least get a little background knowledge before you guys even open up your mouths. Talking about those mag-lev trains, the info we have in this thread so far don't support the allegation that China actually stole the German technology. I don't deny that possibility, but if you don't have any convincing evdence to support that allegation, don't jump to the conclusion, otherwise nothing else could make you sound even more simple-minded. Talking about that picture, most of the cars in the world look similiar to each other in appearance, so all the auto companies are stealing technology from each other?! Unless you are an expert with the mag-lev trains, therefore are able to tell all the secrets with just a glipmse at a picture from the internet (apparently that's not the case with you guys), or you actually worked in the mag-lev business and knew all the inside stories (did you?), you had better shut up your mouths with those accusations.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 05:13 PM   #395
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okay, here is the contact info of Transrapid:

http://www.transrapid.de/cgi-tdb/en/...5c343d&a_no=64

Contact them before saying anything, I am sick of whole bunch of idiots, inculding: Andrew, growingup, Momo1435 and prestonian. Sorry if the truth sounds offensive.

Last edited by wigo; May 29th, 2007 at 05:51 PM.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 05:19 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by ningxiard View Post
keep this your mind, the debate that has been going on so far in this thread is about the Mag-lev line.
Wrong ! This thread started out dicussing "China Railway Development News".

It was first hijacked by the MagLev advocates
Then it was hijacked by the intelectual propoerty debate!

Lets return to basics
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Old May 29th, 2007, 05:22 PM   #397
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I already mailed them concerning the vehicle...but didnt get a response so far.

But what is confirmed, is that the guidway girders at Tongji, which are chinese made (upon the gemerman patents that were legally aquired) are equipped with a linear-motor ( or linear-engine), thats made of components that were left over by building the Shanghai Maglev .

So the linear engine is not copied from german stuff, it actually is german stuff that was left over and would have been thrown away otherwise.....

Quote:
The Tongji tech vehicle is not a secret, everyone can have a visit

Yep, thats why I am asking about more pictures all the time....
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Old May 29th, 2007, 05:47 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post
Wrong ! This thread started out dicussing "China Railway Development News".

It was first hijacked by the MagLev advocates
Then it was hijacked by the intelectual propoerty debate!

Lets return to basics
I am sorry about that. I understand your frustration, but if someone suddenly start the fighting, slap us dead on the face, we can't keep silent.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 06:04 PM   #399
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if someone starts to do exactly the same with us I cannot stop either ...

:chears:

Althouhg I do everything to clearify the situation...

Last edited by pflo777; May 29th, 2007 at 06:11 PM.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 07:34 PM   #400
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Give us the latest updated news if you can

Thank you

Now people can we get back to the topic please ?
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