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Old May 29th, 2007, 08:45 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wigo View Post
okay, here is the contact info of Transrapid:

http://www.transrapid.de/cgi-tdb/en/...5c343d&a_no=64

Contact them before saying anything, I am sick of whole bunch of idiots, including: Andrew, growingup, Momo1435 and prestonian. Sorry if the truth sounds offensive.
I reply with............. sorry if the truth sounds offensive.

BTW, if it's stolen technology Siemens will find out about it anyway and take action even without us informing them.

btw, SSC wouldn't be the same when all threads just stay on-topic. Fighto!

Luckily for this thread, all the other High Speed Trains that China buys are from the big Japanese, Canadian and European manufactures often in cooperation with Chinese companies. Since it seems like nobody knows right now if there going to be more Maglev lines, conventional rail is the way to go right now for China.
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Last edited by Momo1435; May 29th, 2007 at 09:18 PM. Reason: typo
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Old May 29th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #402
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Yup if the tech is stolen then I believe the german government and transrapid will not keep their eyes closed.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 10:44 PM   #403
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Well, if I can give an educated guesses, I would say: A. German knew the Tongji Maglev projects long time ago. B. There will never be an official allegation from Transrapid regarding Tongji project or other Chinese stealing.

But anyway, I will wait for one week, before I officially label Andrew, growingup, Momo1435 and prestonian as idiots, and quote their dog-barking every time when I see them.

I may be rude, but what is the point to be nice to disgusting pieces of work like them, who started their dog-barking even the facts are just out there.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 10:52 PM   #404
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You don't have to call them idiots, they are just expressing their opinions, btw why do u have to wait for one week ?
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Old May 29th, 2007, 11:32 PM   #405
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I'm already proud to be an idiot! I just can't wait 1 week!! There's nothing like teh good old fashioned zOMG Internet Drama!
And wigo, it looks like you got some trouble with your guilty conscience, why else would you react so dramatic.


In the end of the day, stolen or not, a new fantastic design would have been nice, "Let's make things better!"
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Old May 29th, 2007, 11:35 PM   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
I'm already proud to be an idiot! I just can't wait 1 week!! There's nothing like teh good old fashioned zOMG Internet Drama!
And wigo, it looks like you got some trouble with your guilty conscience, why else would you react so dramatic.


In the end of the day, stolen or not, a new fantastic design would have been nice, "Let's make things better!"
No, I only have problem with those who made baseless accusations, who apparently qualify as idiots. Anything wrongs with that?
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Old May 29th, 2007, 11:52 PM   #407
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I will know in one week!
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Old May 30th, 2007, 12:35 AM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wigo View Post
1. Everyone is innocent until proven guity.
Last I heard, that's not how it works in Chinese courts...
However, I made that accusation based on the fact that the vehicle shown in the photo looks exactly the same, so we have visual evidence that China was copying Transrapid technology, the alligations can be easily refuted by showing evidence that they have the legal right to copy it. You say that it is the vehicle design that they copied not the core technology, fair enough. I presume neither of us has enough technical knowledge of the transrapid system to judge whether that is correct or not just by looking at that picture, so I'll let that one rest unless there are some experts on here who can clarify this point. However, we can both see that the vehicle does look exactly the same as a Transrapid vehicle. So I ask; has China got permission to copy the vehicle design?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wigo View Post
I am sick of whole bunch of idiots, inculding: Andrew, growingup, Momo1435 and prestonian. Sorry if the truth sounds offensive.
I read through the whole thread before I made that post and gave my opinion based on what had been written. By all means correct me if I get some facts wrong but you're damn right I'm offended if you call me an idiot just because you don't like what I said. If you can't handle criticism it's not my fault. If you've read my posts before you'll know that I don't make a habit of baselessly criticising China or starting arguments. I actually happen to like your country and am very impressed by the rate of development. That doesn't mean though that if I see something that I disagree with that I won't argue against it. I saw what appears to be a gross breach of intellectual property rights and I duely criticised it. You want to call me an idiot for that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by wigo View Post
But anyway, I will wait for one week, before I officially label Andrew, growingup, Momo1435 and prestonian as idiots, and quote their dog-barking every time when I see them.

I may be rude, but what is the point to be nice to disgusting pieces of work like them, who started their dog-barking even the facts are just out there.
Too late, you've already officially labeled us idiots, but I'm not going to respond in kind. I'm going to call you names in reply because that would put me on your level.
You know what, I suspect that you're right about transrapid not saying anything in a week. Transrapid never seem to talk to the public and probably wouldn't be willing to openly criticise China even if the technology/vehicle design (whatever) has been stolen. If they do though... hahaha, I'll have a field day!
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Old May 30th, 2007, 01:47 AM   #409
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Well, wow it seems it has been a busy day over here...
First of all, I have to say that I've read all the thread until making my post, and I haven't found any evidence for saying anything is fake or not. I didn't say either one or the other in my post. I think others should read before insulting anyone... I've based my opinion actually in what I can see from those pictures posted here, and the only thing I can judge is the appearance (design) of both trains. I'm not going to enter on that issue again.
By the way, I've just "open my mouth to bark" one time, and I've been called an idiot. That's enough for not answering back the person who made the comments, as i didn't offend anyone in here. I understood a forum was to collect infromation, have a talk with other members and discuss, not to insult other beacuse his/her opinion doesn't fit with yours.
That said, I think that rude attitude does not match to the one that has been going until now. Let's try to be polite to each other. Momo1345, Andrew, prestonian, just forget about those comments...
Returning to the topic... , we'll have to wait to know the whole thing. Time will say.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 02:49 AM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Too late, you've already officially labeled us idiots, but I'm not going to respond in kind. I'm going to call you names in reply because that would put me on your level.
You know what, I suspect that you're right about transrapid not saying anything in a week. Transrapid never seem to talk to the public and probably wouldn't be willing to openly criticise China even if the technology/vehicle design (whatever) has been stolen. If they do though... hahaha, I'll have a field day!
What kind of level do you have if Transrapid does not give a damn to your fabricated accusation? But let's what is going to happen in a week.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 04:14 AM   #411
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Guys, let's just say that Changchun Train Works successfully copies the Transrapid maglev and build it in China without paying a cent to Transrapid. What can Germany do. Germany as a country is not surviving on Transrapid's maglev technology (which BTW havne't really made enough money to cover the development cost yet), and they have much more important profitable businesses in China than transrapid's maglev. Siemens for example, another company in the railroad sector, have been doing great business with the Department or railroad transportation as well as the public transit authorities of major cities.

Is Germany along with the EU going place trade senctions against China over Transrapid? Then what about Volkswagen? Deimler-Benz? Airbus? BMW? Siemens? Alstom? Even LV and Gucci along with the entire European tourism industry (especialy French)?

Do you really think anybody is going to levy anything against China over transrapid? growup will you.

now let's talk about trains, because from what's mentioned here you clearly are not politicans.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 04:19 AM   #412
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It would be naive for someone to think that China would waste a billions to showcase German technology, without any returns.

Hence the returns would be in form of transfer of technology. The test track at Shanghai Tongji university must have been built to complement the technology transfer process. Millions would have been spent on it, and the German must have been well aware of this as it is in Shanghai and not in a far flung province.

The Chinese are the one who got off worst in this debacle, as they wasted at least US $1.2 billions with a loss making maglev line that is going nowhere, while German got to showcase their technology to whole world.

Chinese officials should have done better in this saga. Pay no heed to promise of technology transfer from any anyone, unless it is clearly inked out in the formal agreement.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 06:30 AM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
However, we can both see that the vehicle does look exactly the same as a Transrapid vehicle. So I ask; has China got permission to copy the vehicle design?
I don't agree with you on that. Why do you presume that China must have the premission from Germany to make trains that look physically similiar to theirs? Unless it's protected by the patent law (which nobody knows except experts), I don't see why Chinese have to develop a new train with entirely different shape if the old ones work perfectly well.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 07:33 AM   #414
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The design is not protected by patent laws, but by copyright laws instead.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 10:47 AM   #415
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as long as it benefit the country, who gives a shit about copy, chinese invented paper and compass, so please everyone give money to the chinese people,lol
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Old May 30th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #416
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Ok let assume that the Chinese side really copied the tech, but how stupid is the Chinese government to let the the whole knows that copy tech by putting it right in Shanghai, and let people visit the construction site and take pictures ??
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Old May 30th, 2007, 04:57 PM   #417
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Okay, one day has passed and nothing has happened, as I had expected.

The issue is about whether China legally copies it, so all we need to know is whether Transrapid knows and, has any objection against Tongji Test vehicle.

Let's wait for another six days, if it turns out China is nothing wrong, meaning no response from Transrapid. I want Andrew, growingup, Momo1435 and prestonian, if they think they are decent human beings, to issue a sincere apology to China for their irresponsible accusation. However, I am not sure about whether they are decent human being.

Again, if anyone wants to contact Transrapid, feel free to do so.
http://www.transrapid.de/
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Old May 30th, 2007, 05:24 PM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wigo View Post

Let's wait for another six days, if it turns out China is nothing wrong, meaning no response from Transrapid. I want Andrew, growingup, Momo1435 and prestonian, if they think they are decent human beings, to issue a sincere apology to China for their irresponsible accusation. However, I am not sure about whether they are decent human being.
Wigo, take it easy. We fellow Chinese all understand your fury and frustration. Sometimes I also wanted to jump up and punch them dead on the face. But this is still just an online discussion. At least Andrew is a very nice and friendly British boy, he doesn't deserve to be described as an indecent person.
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Old May 30th, 2007, 06:09 PM   #419
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I want Andrew, growingup, Momo1435 and prestonian, if they think they are decent human beings, to issue a sincere apology to China for their irresponsible accusation. However, I am not sure about whether they are decent human being.
I won't apologize, because if you had read my post properly you would have known that I never claimed that in this case the technology was stolen. I said that there are cases of stolen technology, that's not even a secret. There are even lot's of disputes between Chinese companies over intellectual property, that are settled in court. Also the US government is right now in negotiation with China via the WTO about the protection of intellectual property, so there is really something going on and the accusations are not simply baseless (although there is no actual proof in this particular case).

In your anger you read only "China" "stolen technology" "maglev", and didn't read between the lines. So there's no need to apologize from my side, because I did not offend anybody.

I also have an advice, don't take everything personal, it's not against you. It's only an online discussion like ningxiard said,
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Old May 30th, 2007, 06:34 PM   #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
I won't apologize, because if you had read my post properly you would have known that I never claimed that in this case the technology was stolen. I said that there are cases of stolen technology, that's not even a secret. There are even lot's of disputes between Chinese companies over intellectual property, that are settled in court. Also the US government is right now in negotiation with China via the WTO about the protection of intellectual property, so there is really something going on and the accusations are not simply baseless (although there is no actual proof in this particular case).

In your anger you read only "China" "stolen technology" "maglev", and didn't read between the lines. So there's no need to apologize from my side, because I did not offend anybody.

I also have an advice, don't take everything personal, it's not against you. It's only an online discussion like ningxiard said,
Well, everything you say under perticular context has its meaning. When you brought up a "hearsay" into a "China-Maglev-stealing" debate, it is clear that you want to be an ally of such accusation.

And, what does it mean when you say this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post

I will know in one week!
Anyway, I take your explanation since as you said, you never made a specific statement about "China-Maglev-stealing".

But, we both know the truth is, you know that you are losing this "China-Maglev-stealing" debate, therefore you decide to quit.
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