daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 12th, 2011, 04:57 AM   #4221
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,504
Likes (Received): 6894

I thought it was 1990 or 1991? Whatever, I'm not old enough to remember anything from then.
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:11 AM   #4222
fragel
Registered User
 
fragel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fragel Town, Michigan
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 55

Here is one example. Ticket fare for train 1461(from Beijing to Shanghai, one famous ‘miraculous train’) was increased to RMB 46 in 1990, it was later increased to RMB 88 in 1996, and then remained the same till June 2010. After June 2010 it was changed to an air-conditioned train and is no longer a 'green skin'.
__________________
女口果人尔能句多王里解这句言舌,京尤言兑日月人尔有匕匕车交严重白勺斗又鸟目艮。
fragel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:28 AM   #4223
cbz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 86
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Is it really true? That just doesn't sound possible! If so in 1990 it must have looked very expensive.

Anyway if this is true and there were no fare rises for a decade or so then I guess it is laughable to complain about anything. Especially once you get a faster and generally better mean of transport.
It is very true, ticket price of shanghai-chengdu in 1983 was about 50 yuans, now, the ticket price with the similar type of service (no air condition, 40 hours) only costs 124 yuans. 50 yuans was two month salary of a worker with average income in 1983

a low income worker in shanghai today should be able to afford this most luxurious service between shanghai-chengdu with his/her one month salary (little bit more than 2000 yuans). This reminds me of the time when i can only stand on ONE FOOT on overcrowded shanghai-chengdu train for 5-6 hours. People are spoiled too much now




Last edited by cbz; January 12th, 2011 at 06:09 AM.
cbz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:46 AM   #4224
SoroushPersepolisi
Moderator
 
SoroushPersepolisi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tehran
Posts: 14,761
Likes (Received): 5146

wow, they truely mean it when they say china has built a country in 20 years
__________________
See TEHRAN, The Capital of IRAN
SoroushPersepolisi está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 09:05 AM   #4225
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

1.11 Changchun-Jilin HSR open for operation

111km, max speed 250km/h, 3 stations (including an airport), shortening the travel time from 1.5 hrs to 29 mins.









by 新浪, sina.com
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 09:15 AM   #4226
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

I agree that people are not happy with the Shanghai Nanjing PDL price, which I have used many times a year (I miss the D trains too), but I really don't see the problem here. The reason they build the PDL is to relieve pressure on the main line for freight traffic, because it's part of the Beijing-Shanghai line, freight traffic pressure is way higher than Shanghai-Hangzhou line. That's part of the reason there are a lot more D trains remaining on the aforementioned line.

The new Shanghai-Nanjing PDL sure save a lot of travel time, with a 50% price hike, the speed increased 50% as well. This line serve Yangtze Delta's richest cities, so if a passenger travels frequently among them, he or she sure can afford the ticket, I mean really, how many "migrant workers" earning minimum wage in Shanghai came from Nanjing? If money is really a issue, there are loads of coaches available.

Having said that, MOR is stupid to abruptly cancel all D trains when the PDL opened, if the process is more gradual and the price increase is incremental, I'm sure the public outcry will be far less severe.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 09:23 AM   #4227
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

1.11 Xi'an North Railway station south hall opens

The whole station will open by June 2011. By prediction, its annual capacity will be 82.6 million.



(by 张喆 孙昊, sohu.com)
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #4228
HunanChina
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Changsha
Posts: 265
Likes (Received): 5

Vote for the worst design of NEW Railway Station in China. I think, Xi'an North Railway station will be the winner, and the Changsha South Railway Station would be second place.

Too big. ugly and no originality.
HunanChina no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 03:44 PM   #4229
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,204
Likes (Received): 1766

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Only thing I understand is that an instant 50% fare rise may be a little bit shocking from a psychological point of view. It may have needed a transitional period lasting one year or so... still ultimatelly this is by no means a bad deal. The question is how the fares will be kept in the future? Are they going to rise like crazy (like in London area) or are they going to be kept at a level not to stir public anger.

And the ordinary folk who really cannot afford the extra 50 Yuan will have to use the 4hr buses then... that's the reality. Just like I rent a VW and not an Audi when looking for a rental car during my holidays... those who still cannot afford even a coach will have to resort to cycling or walking. Unless you are trying to imply that everyone should get everything for free? I thought China abandoned the hardline communism 30 years ago?
Railways are supposed to be for the ordinary people not the rich few. Quite frankly your example of VW vs Audi is a shocking one because you wouldn't be going any slower, and I find your 'let them eat cake' attitude extremely patronising and one even David Cameron wouldn't dare to take (publically at least).

The fact is fares have risen too fast compared to salaries, and the recent rise is immediately after the first rise when D trains were rolled out and ¥47 K trains cancelled, only in a space of 5 years (and no London travel cards and Advanced intercity train fares haven't risen by the same percentage). The first time there were significant improvements to rolling time and journey times, but the second time there were not. As things currently stand there are G trains slower than D trains.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #4230
HunanChina
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Changsha
Posts: 265
Likes (Received): 5

That it is why the Beijing-Tianjin ICL is the only one 350km/h grade ICL. and now, All the new ICL are 250km/h grade. It's sensible, I think. 250km/h grade D train is best in performance price ratio.
HunanChina no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 05:47 PM   #4231
cbz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 86
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Railways are supposed to be for the ordinary people not the rich few.
I am sure that you know better than us about how much ordinary people in shanghai make now monthly. Probably 140 yuan of Shanghai-Nanjing HSR ticket just costs 3-4% (or even less) of an ordinary shanghainese monthly income. You don't expect those migrant workers to take Nanjing-shanghai HSR for daily commute, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
The fact is fares have risen too fast compared to salaries

This is because the fare hasn't risen too much for 2-3 decades, it was just catching up recent years

Last edited by cbz; January 12th, 2011 at 05:56 PM.
cbz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:03 PM   #4232
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,204
Likes (Received): 1766

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbz View Post
I am sure that you know better than us about how much ordinary people in shanghai make now monthly. Probably 140 yuan of Shanghai-Nanjing HSR ticket just costs 3-4% (or even less) of an ordinary shanghainese monthly income. You don't expect those migrant workers to take Nanjing-shanghai HSR for daily commute, right?

This is because the fare hasn't risen too much for 2-3 decades, it was just catching up recent years
3-4% is still too high, and when companies instruct their workers to take the company car instead of the train because it is cheaper, clearly something is wrong.

Of course a sizable chunk of the demand is business travel and multinational companies are not so sentitive to these prices. Not all companies are rich and a lot of people still have to pay out of their own pocket. It would have made sense if the slower trains could be priced lower closer to ¥100, even if the fast ones charged ¥170 or more, then at least it gives the poorer sections of the society a meaningful option.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #4233
fragel
Registered User
 
fragel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fragel Town, Michigan
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 55

Quote:
companies instruct their workers to take the company car instead of the train because it is cheaper
I also read about such posts, but isn't it natural since such companies sent more than 3 people at a time to the same place? It is definitely cheaper to for three passengers to carpool for merely 300km. Maybe you have more examples that I don't know, but I suspect most likely those people are traveling together in such cases.

maybe we shall quit ranting on it, at least for a while. Or maybe we could start a ranting thread in Chinese tea house specifically for bashing Nanjing-Shanghai ICL.
__________________
女口果人尔能句多王里解这句言舌,京尤言兑日月人尔有匕匕车交严重白勺斗又鸟目艮。
fragel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 08:01 PM   #4234
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 381

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
1.11 Xi'an North Railway station south hall opens

The whole station will open by June 2011. By prediction, its annual capacity will be 82.6 million.



(by 张喆 孙昊, sohu.com)

This should be one of the biggest, I hope you can share more pictures
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 09:08 PM   #4235
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragel View Post

I also read about such posts, but isn't it natural since such companies sent more than 3 people at a time to the same place? It is definitely cheaper to for three passengers to carpool for merely 300km. Maybe you have more examples that I don't know, but I suspect most likely those people are traveling together in such cases.

maybe we shall quit ranting on it, at least for a while. Or maybe we could start a ranting thread in Chinese tea house specifically for bashing Nanjing-Shanghai ICL.
I agree, arguing this subject is not gonna produce any agreement whatsoever. Speaking of carpooling, Huning expressway toll along is 150 yuan, plus gas and wear and tear, so it's only economical when there are at least three people traveling together.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 10:07 PM   #4236
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,974
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
The new Shanghai-Nanjing PDL sure save a lot of travel time, with a 50% price hike, the speed increased 50% as well. This line serve Yangtze Delta's richest cities, so if a passenger travels frequently among them, he or she sure can afford the ticket, I mean really, how many "migrant workers" earning minimum wage in Shanghai came from Nanjing? If money is really a issue, there are loads of coaches available.
But that is the problem. A train has the rolling friction of steel wheel on smooth rail. A bus wastes energy on the rolling friction of a rubber wheel.

Since the last price rise of MOR trains in 1996, how much has the market price of private coach tickets changed?

As far as general inflation or increase of salary real costs go, the price of train tickets should trail the price of coach tickets - and stay below.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 10:58 PM   #4237
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,504
Likes (Received): 6894

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post
That it is why the Beijing-Tianjin ICL is the only one 350km/h grade ICL. and now, All the new ICL are 250km/h grade. It's sensible, I think. 250km/h grade D train is best in performance price ratio.
Isn't Shanghai-Hangzhou also 350km/h? Also Chengdu-Chongqing will be, I think
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2011, 12:30 AM   #4238
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,204
Likes (Received): 1766

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
Isn't Shanghai-Hangzhou also 350km/h? Also Chengdu-Chongqing will be, I think
I think it is, as Shanghai - Hangzhou is part of the longer Shanghai - Kunming HSL.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2011, 12:53 AM   #4239
cbz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 86
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post
Vote for the worst design of NEW Railway Station in China. I think, Xi'an North Railway station will be the winner, and the Changsha South Railway Station would be second place.

Too big. ugly and no originality.

this is Xi'an old railway station few days ago before the new one was opened.



I believe you would not say so if you were one of these people when you have choice like this



and this
















Last edited by cbz; January 13th, 2011 at 01:33 AM.
cbz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2011, 12:54 AM   #4240
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunanChina View Post
That it is why the Beijing-Tianjin ICL is the only one 350km/h grade ICL. and now, All the new ICL are 250km/h grade. It's sensible, I think. 250km/h grade D train is best in performance price ratio.
Shanghai-Nanjing ICL was initially designed to be 250km/h but during the construction changed to 350km/h. It should be considered a 350km/h rated HSR because the direct train run at 350km/h for a large portion of the trip.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed train, rail, tgv

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium