daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 2nd, 2011, 02:04 AM   #4361
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,505
Likes (Received): 6894

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
Zhangjiakou–Hohhot High-Speed Railway
- Length: 286 km
- Speed: mostly 350 km/h; Taobuqi–Hohhot East section (~ 30 km) 250 km/h
- Due to open in 2015

Hohhot–Jungar–Ordos Railway
- Length: 174 km
- Speed: 200 km/h
- Due to open in 2014

Is there a Beijing-Zhangjiakou HSR line? If so, what is the speed and projected opening year?
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 2nd, 2011, 02:31 AM   #4362
fragel
Registered User
 
fragel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fragel Town, Michigan
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 55

Jing-Zhang ICL is to open in 2013, designed speed 'over 200km/h'.
__________________
女口果人尔能句多王里解这句言舌,京尤言兑日月人尔有匕匕车交严重白勺斗又鸟目艮。
fragel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2011, 05:05 PM   #4363
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Back on track - Beijing to build world's slowest maglev train

Stephen Chen
Mar 2, 2011
http://topics.scmp.com/news/china-ne...t-maglev-train


Beijing began building the world's slowest maglev line in its westernmost district on Monday, using technology developed by the military.

The project's chief scientist, Professor Chang Wensen from the National University of Defence Technology, said the 10-kilometre S1 line would move passengers around the capital's Mentougou district when completed in 2013.

It will crawl along at 60km/h, compared to the 500km/h top speed of the demonstration maglev line built in Shanghai by the German firm Siemens.

But Chang said the competition between Chinese and German technology would be a tortoise-and-hare race and "we will win".

For Chang and the project's biggest investor, the municipal government-owned Beijing Enterprises Group, the demonstration line is just a stepping stone. They do not see the maglev technology being limited to Mentougou, Beijing's poorest district, and have designs on richer and more populous inner-city areas.

"If the technology works, which I am sure it does, city planners will introduce it downtown and make it part of public transport because maglev is quiet, pollution-free, safe and simply breathtaking," he said.

Maglev trains seem to have fallen out of favour with government leaders, who decided against backing the construction of a maglev line between Shanghai and Hangzhou and have splashed out on high-speed rail lines across the mainland. Unlike their predecessors, President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao seem to prefer trains with wheels. That might change with next year's impending leadership reshuffle. Hu's heir apparent, Vice-President Xi Jinping , took a test ride at Chang's experimental facilities in Tangshan in July and gave the technology the thumbs up, Xinhua reported.

"You have done a very meaningful thing," Xi was quoted as saying, promising to be the first person to ride the Mentougou line when it was finished.

The military quickly voiced its support for the project after Xi's visit. General Zhang Yulin , head of the National University of Defence Technology, said it was politically important and the military would increase its support.

That encouraged the Beijing government. Zhou Yuqiu , director of the capital's State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, told state media that maglev technology would help Beijing solve its traffic congestion problem and give birth to a whole new sector of hi-tech industry if other cities also began to adopt it.

The government's enthusiasm has not been shared by Mentougou residents living along the line, who fear the project will bring electro-magnetic pollution to their neighbourhoods. A petition letter signed by hundreds of residents was submitted to the government last year but met no response.

The high-speed rail camp has also voiced concerns. Professor Wang Mengshu of Beijing Jiaotong University, a key scientific adviser to the Ministry of Railways, likened a train without wheels to a horse without reins - simply too dangerous.

Maglev trains are slowed down by reversing electric current. If a train takes nine seconds to reach 100km/h, it will need the same amount of time to stop from that speed. In 2006, a collision killed 23 people on a maglev test line in Lathen, Germany, mainly because the braking system failed.



Copyright (c) 2011. South China Morning Post Publishers Ltd. All rights reserved.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2011, 06:39 AM   #4364
ANR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 932
Likes (Received): 117

Fast Track Wreck for Rail Minister's Circle

A follow up to posting #4171 on 2/1/11:

By staff reporters Yu Ning, Zhang Boling, Cao Haili, Wang Heyan and Liang Dongmei
english.caing.com
03.02.2011

A Ministry of Railways graft probe broke up a close-knit group of schemers centered on a fast train-loving minister

Their working lives followed parallel tracks from ground-level jobs to powerful positions as railway executives – and now to corruption charges that probably permanently derailed their careers.

The most recent of these three career train wrecks came February 12, when news surfaced that China's Railways Minister Liu Zhijun, who also served as the ministry's Communist Party secretary, was at the center of a financial fraud investigation.

image hosted on flickr

(Liu Zhijun)

Liu, 58, was dismissed a few days later after nearly eight years in office. He was replaced by Sheng Guangzu, a former director of the General Administration of Customs.

Just over a month earlier, investigators looking into rail business irregularities questioned a successful businesswoman named Ding Shumiao, 56, from the coal rich Shanxi Province. Several sources told Caixin Ding's case involves a number of top rail system officials.

And the first executive to fall was Luo Jinbao, 55, who was dismissed from his post as chairman of a listed company called China Railway Tielong Container Logistics Co. Ltd. in October. Authorities claim he accepted bribes. A formal investigation into his behavior began in January.

Caixin learned that party investigators looking into corruption in China's vast, fast-growing rail network found strong links between Liu, Ding and Luo.
Indeed, the three have been close for many years, a source close to the Taiyuan Railway Bureau said. Luo was an old friend of Liu, and Ding had used her ties to Luo to cultivate a relationship with Liu even before he became railway minister.

"Ding and Liu had a complex relationship and complex interests," said a source. Sources also say the three cut deals through the latest boom years for China's rail industry, which roared into high gear in 2006 with the start of large-scale, nationwide, high-speed railway construction projects that continue today.

Government spending on high-speed rail grew to more than 700 billion yuan last year from 209 billion yuan four years earlier. New projects are being launched almost every month.

Ding used her access to Liu to function as a low-profile but well-paid mediator between the ministry and state-owned enterprises vying for various rail projects. One source said she pocketed up to 800 million yuan for helping arrange contracts. Of that amount, the source said, Ding complied with Liu's direction not to spend about half.

Although his business ties to Liu and Ding are not entirely clear, Luo received orders to plan the nation's first high-speed passenger rail line, from Shijiazhuang in Hebei Province to Taiyuan in Shanxi, in late 2005 while he was director of the Datong Railway Bureau and party secretary of the Taiyuan Railway Bureau.

And from the minister's office in Beijing, Liu cultivated connections with Ding and Luo in exchange for bribes and to help his family members profit from high-speed rail contracts. He also got something extra through Ding: young women. Ding told authorities she introduced Liu to numerous women with whom he had affairs. "Ding introduced Liu to girls," said a source. "And Ding had to listen to Liu on how to manage money."

Greased Machine
Data from 2009 says the ministry oversaw awards of up to 80 percent of all high-speed rail projects to a pair of state-owned contractors: China Railway Group and China Railway Construction Corp. The rest of the contracts were won by China Communications Construction Co., China Construction Group and local construction companies. Those issuing contracts tenders and the winning bidders were all state-owned enterprises.

Companies outside the system rarely won projects. Executives at two suppliers of high-speed rail equipment said that until this year, the railway ministry used an "expert review" system for choosing contractors, in which middlemen paved the way for contracts, and one of them was apparently Ding.

Last summer, authorities learned that a major SOE – which is now involved in the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail project but has yet to be publicly identified – handed Ding 100 million yuan off the books after she helped it win a railway tender.

Ding and Liu allegedly sought to dodge investigators, using their webs of inside connections. But the walls started closing in on Ding after the unnamed SOE became the focus of a routine probe by the National Audit Office. Company officials admitted paying off Ding, explaining that they were only following an unwritten rule of the tender process for track building, locomotive purchases, train station construction and station renovation contracts. The audit did not mention the matter, but the information was apparently passed to regulatory investigators.

Payoffs for mediators have been common for years in the railway system. One source said Ding was one of many intermediaries, who generally collect fees worth about 3 percent of a single contract. Over the years, Ding got involved in project deals whose combined values were in the tens of billions of yuan.

"This unspoken rule was quite clever," said the source. "SOEs cannot give kickbacks directly. After winning a contract, they subcontract, sometimes with private companies, which in turn give kickbacks to a middleman. "Other private subcontractors have their own connections and can segment a contract or win an order for a subcontract, and then cooperate with an SOE," the source said.

The Ministry of Railways, with Liu still at the helm, took steps to clean up the process last October by unveiling new regulations for rail construction tenders and bidding. Details were released in December. But the rules remained opaque, sources said, and the use of mediators continued right up until Liu's removal.

Today, a legacy of Liu is that high-speed railways are spreading nationwide but "almost every project exceeds budget," a railway contractor said. "The Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway was initially estimated at 12.34 billion yuan. In the end it cost 21.5 billion.

Construction of the "Guangzhou South Station went from an estimate of a couple billion yuan to 14.8 billion yuan. This is because every project is contracted, subcontracted and subcontracted again," the contractor said. "If you want to profit from the process, you have to continuously modify the plan."

Since the Liu shakeup, the rail industry and the public have wondered whether the future of high-speed rail may be affected. One ministry official said the development strategy would not change. But others familiar with high-speed rail say high-speed projects are likely to be reevaluated.
An analyst for a foreign securities firm who specializes in infrastructure construction told Caixin that "the overall development strategy for high-speed rail shouldn't be affected" by Liu's demise. "But high-speed rail projects that have not yet been launched may be postponed."
High-speed rail currently accounts for 8,358 kilometers of the 91,000 kilometers of tracks nationwide. Another 17,000 kilometers of high-speed rail are currently under construction.

During the period of the 11th Five-Year Plan, which ended in December, national railway infrastructure investment totaled 1.98 trillion yuan. The 12th Five-Year Plan calls for more than 3 trillion yuan in spending.

Liu's successor, Sheng, faces a complex task. He'll have to select routes for new high-speed construction projects, and try to resolve the legacy of debt and risk tied to high-speed rail tracks laid in recent years. A government audit of the Ministry of Railways said the agency's debt had ballooned to 1.3 trillion yuan by the end of 2009, and paying off that debt with interest will cost 73.3 billion yuan annually. Zhao Jian, a professor at Beijing Jiaotong University, said Japan's high-speed Tokaido-Shinkansen line is the only profitable high-speed railway in the world. China's high-speed systems are unlikely to make money anytime soon.

Sheng is also being forced to decide whether to steer the railway system into a period of market reform after years of stagnation. Questions remain over how to separate government and private business, overhaul railway financing, and open the freight system and the rest of the rail system – China's largest bastion of state monopoly – to outside capital.

And safety issues are on the agenda for the post-Liu period. China's rail construction cycle is considered by many industry experts to be too fast, since contractors are laying rails even while ministry experts are still formulating high-speed rail construction standards.

Many in the high-speed rail construction industry have publicly expressed concerns. A foreign supplier of high-speed rail materials, for example, told Caixin that China's tendency to rush projects raises safety risks: It takes only two years to build 300 kilometers of high-speed railway in China, but a decade in other countries.

A source at Wuhan's rail system told Caixin that central government officials have stressed safety since Liu's departure, and that's "a signal" that the ministry "will pay more attention to safety issues in the future than speed issues."

Yet many industry observers say the real problems inside China's railway system stem from monopolistic, opaque business practices, which encourage ministry officials to stay busy building financial alliances and pursuing common interests with local governments and power brokers.

All Fall Down
Liu had long prevented many of the reforms sought by many business and industry interests. In 2003, immediately after taking office, he shelved proposed reforms that would have separated the system's network and transportation divisions.

In 2002, the ministry introduced several new measures for tendering bids to replace a system that said the largest contracts had to go through the ministry's Railway Project Transaction Center. But during the preparation period for the Beijing-Tianjin high-speed rail project, many procurement and engineering contracts had been decided before the bidding. And as minister, Liu refused to break the railroad monopoly or liberalize business practices, but instead called for the rail network to develop ever-more rapidly.

Liu's acquaintances have called him courageous, strong and daring as well as "smooth," said one source. "He understands how to attend to people, and gives face to everyone." Raised in a modest family, Liu started working at age 19 as a maintenance employee of the Wuhan Railway Bureau branch office. He gradually climbed the ladder toward the top, taking up key positions at railway bureaus in Zhengzhou, Guangzhou and Shenyang.
In 1994, Liu was transferred to the Ministry of Railways and named head dispatcher. Two years later, he was named deputy minister, and in March 2003 became minister.

Luo, meanwhile, has a similar background and knows Liu well.
In February 2006, he was transferred to the railway ministry's Transport Command Center for positions as deputy director as well as director of equipment, thus being given responsibility for scheduling freight trains.
Eight months later, Luo was appointed director of the Hohhot Railway Bureau, and the next spring he became party secretary for the Beijing Railway Bureau. Between March 2008 and April 2010, he served as director and vice party secretary of the Urumqi Railway Bureau.

After making friends with Luo, Ding's coal railcar shipping business took off. Major coal price increases in 2003 laid the groundwork for her company's meteoric rise, and soon she had branched out with new ventures in railway sound barrier construction, advertising and entertainment.
Another key figure in the three-part demise of Liu, Luo and Ding was Liu Zhixiang, the ex-minister's little brother. According to several sources, investigators now want to know more about Liu Zhixiang and how he rose to become deputy director of the Wuhan Railway Bureau.

The brother rose from ordinary railway worker to head of the Hankou Railway Station in 1997. But that same year he clashed with Gao Tiezhu, a contractor at a station hotel service. Liu Zhixiang rejected some of Gao's demands, and the contractor retaliated by filing criminal claims with authorities about the station head's activities.

Five years later, though, Liu Zhixiang was promoted to deputy director of the Wuhan Railway Bureau. And soon, officials say, he had another station contractor arrange to murder Gao in his home.

A long probe ensued, and in January 2005 party officials in Hubei Province had Liu Zhixiang detained. He was later arrested and found guilty of embezzlement, bribery, intentional injury and possessing property from unidentified sources worth more than 40 million yuan.

In April 2006, Liu Zhixiang was sentenced to death with a two-year reprieve and stripped of his political rights for life. Yet his sentence was reduced to 16 years in prison. From behind bars, he continued using his high-level connections to help businesses win railway contracts.

Caixin learned that Liu Zhixiang was supposed to be transferred to a prison hospital, but was allowed to remain in local hospital instead. Yet he was finally transferred on the day investigators announced the case against his brother.
ANR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2011, 11:53 AM   #4365
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,977
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
A follow up to posting #4171 on 2/1/11:
Today, a legacy of Liu is that high-speed railways are spreading nationwide but "almost every project exceeds budget," a railway contractor said. "The Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway was initially estimated at 12.34 billion yuan. In the end it cost 21.5 billion.

Construction of the "Guangzhou South Station went from an estimate of a couple billion yuan to 14.8 billion yuan. This is because every project is contracted, subcontracted and subcontracted again," the contractor said. "If you want to profit from the process, you have to continuously modify the plan."

Since the Liu shakeup, the rail industry and the public have wondered whether the future of high-speed rail may be affected. One ministry official said the development strategy would not change. But others familiar with high-speed rail say high-speed projects are likely to be reevaluated.
An analyst for a foreign securities firm who specializes in infrastructure construction told Caixin that "the overall development strategy for high-speed rail shouldn't be affected" by Liu's demise. "But high-speed rail projects that have not yet been launched may be postponed."
High-speed rail currently accounts for 8,358 kilometers of the 91,000 kilometers of tracks nationwide. Another 17,000 kilometers of high-speed rail are currently under construction.

During the period of the 11th Five-Year Plan, which ended in December, national railway infrastructure investment totaled 1.98 trillion yuan. The 12th Five-Year Plan calls for more than 3 trillion yuan in spending.
Out of the initial 12,34 milliards, how much was embezzled? And out of the assitional 9,16 milliards, how much was embezzled?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
Liu's successor, Sheng, faces a complex task. He'll have to select routes for new high-speed construction projects, and try to resolve the legacy of debt and risk tied to high-speed rail tracks laid in recent years.
So the first task is to learn to build a high speed railway without bribery and cost overruns.

What is the next big high-speed railway building tender under planning, that Sheng Guangzu can do right this time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR View Post
And safety issues are on the agenda for the post-Liu period. China's rail construction cycle is considered by many industry experts to be too fast, since contractors are laying rails even while ministry experts are still formulating high-speed rail construction standards.

Many in the high-speed rail construction industry have publicly expressed concerns. A foreign supplier of high-speed rail materials, for example, told Caixin that China's tendency to rush projects raises safety risks: It takes only two years to build 300 kilometers of high-speed railway in China, but a decade in other countries.

A source at Wuhan's rail system told Caixin that central government officials have stressed safety since Liu's departure, and that's "a signal" that the ministry "will pay more attention to safety issues in the future than speed issues."
Did the ministry waste more on corruption than they saved from safety, or vice versa? When a high speed railway is done right, will it be cheaper or more expensive than the existing ones?
chornedsnorkack está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2011, 12:54 PM   #4366
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Almost certainly slower. From an engineering point of view I think that is good. Of course there are advantages from being fast, but when so much of the intended network is being constructed in parallel there is little room for feeding back incremental learning into the process. This learning would mean cheaper, better, safer. That doesn't mean going to NASA level of planning, where missions take so long to plan and execute that the probes are technologically five or ten years behind state of the art by launch. Slower also means more expensive.

As it happens the timing isn't optimal either. This network was also expedited for economic reasons, much it was planned when China was facing economic meltdown in the main export markets. These days the worries are about economic overheating instead.

As a user of the network I don't complain though, it is making getting around faster, easier, and more convenient.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2011, 01:16 PM   #4367
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

The original plan was to spread out the construction over the 12years after 2008.

However, they pushed the go-button on all the projects simultaneously after the crash in 2008, when the government saw lots of workers losing their jobs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Almost certainly slower. From an engineering point of view I think that is good. Of course there are advantages from being fast, but when so much of the intended network is being constructed in parallel there is little room for feeding back incremental learning into the process. This learning would mean cheaper, better, safer. That doesn't mean going to NASA level of planning, where missions take so long to plan and execute that the probes are technologically five or ten years behind state of the art by launch. Slower also means more expensive.

As it happens the timing isn't optimal either. This network was also expedited for economic reasons, much it was planned when China was facing economic meltdown in the main export markets. These days the worries are about economic overheating instead.

As a user of the network I don't complain though, it is making getting around faster, easier, and more convenient.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2011, 02:03 PM   #4368
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,977
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
Almost certainly slower.
Slower as in operating speed, or slower as in speed of construction?
chornedsnorkack está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2011, 02:38 PM   #4369
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,303
Likes (Received): 540

Not necessarily either. The speed of rollout. Quick construction, assuming not "quick and dirty", is generally cheaper and better, with less disruption than slow construction. Unless the train speed is above safety limits, or the wear and operating expenses are too high, there is no reason for the trains to go slower. Higher speed means less time wasted for commuters, higher use of rolling stock, and a greater range where trains are competitive.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2011, 10:14 PM   #4370
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

I hope MOR can also learn to increase operation efficiency of the currently HSR system to Japanese level, so that new lines will not be needed so quickly.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 02:26 AM   #4371
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
I hope MOR can also learn to increase operation efficiency of the currently HSR system to Japanese level, so that new lines will not be needed so quickly.
The Chinese HSR standard can already run longer and faster trains at more frequent intervals.

The problem is that the demand for all those seats isn't there yet.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 02:44 AM   #4372
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
The Chinese HSR standard can already run longer and faster trains at more frequent intervals.

The problem is that the demand for all those seats isn't there yet.
Are you sure about that? Let's see some hard data.
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 11:26 AM   #4373
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,977
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
The Chinese HSR standard can already run longer and faster trains at more frequent intervals.

The problem is that the demand for all those seats isn't there yet.
Seats or intervals?

China does use big trains, like Japan. CRH1A is 8 cars. CRH1B is 16 cars.

CRH is based on Bombardier Regina. And Bombardier Regina has just 2 or 3 cars, running at 180 to 200 km/h.

Running frequent small trains at moderate speeds and frequent stops would seem to be an important thing to do. Because high speed trains on long distances, 300 to 400 km/h, few stops and low frequencies, compete only with planes, not with buses and private cars.
chornedsnorkack está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 01:34 PM   #4374
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,211
Likes (Received): 1779

The fundamental problem is that Chinese railways are a quasi-military operation, and therefore there is no concept whatsoever of customer service.
__________________
My Shanghai photos - Nanjing Road, People's Square, The Bund, Xintiandi and more!
NCT está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 04:39 PM   #4375
bace
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless View Post
The Chinese HSR standard can already run longer and faster trains at more frequent intervals.

The problem is that the demand for all those seats isn't there yet.
You are boastful.
Check the map of Shinkansen.
bace no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #4376
bace
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Seats or intervals?

China does use big trains, like Japan. CRH1A is 8 cars. CRH1B is 16 cars.

CRH is based on Bombardier Regina. And Bombardier Regina has just 2 or 3 cars, running at 180 to 200 km/h.

Running frequent small trains at moderate speeds and frequent stops would seem to be an important thing to do. Because high speed trains on long distances, 300 to 400 km/h, few stops and low frequencies, compete only with planes, not with buses and private cars.
The distance between 2 chinese railway stations are very very long when comparing with Europe and Japan. MoR dismissed most suburban trains in 90 decade, now MoR do transport inter-city passengers only.
bace no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 06:46 PM   #4377
Restless
Registered User
 
Restless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,170
Likes (Received): 271

Huh? The previous poster was under the impression that Shinkansen standards were better.

I wouldn't have made the comment unless I'd already examined the differences between the Shinkansen and the Chinese HSR system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
You are boastful.
Check the map of Shinkansen.
Restless no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 07:23 PM   #4378
Pansori
planquadrat
 
Pansori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London - Vilnius
Posts: 9,973
Likes (Received): 6911

350km/h CRH lines can run at minimum intervals of 3min. right?
Pansori no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 08:26 PM   #4379
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,977
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
The distance between 2 chinese railway stations are very very long when comparing with Europe and Japan. MoR dismissed most suburban trains in 90 decade, now MoR do transport inter-city passengers only.
And that is a problem which needs fixing.
chornedsnorkack está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 09:11 PM   #4380
bace
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
350km/h CRH lines can run at minimum intervals of 3min. right?
350km/h CRHs are slower then 80km/h metro at minimum intervals of 3min.
you are right. The child is wrong.
bace no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, high speed train, rail, tgv

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium