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Old January 29th, 2013, 09:18 AM   #5081
big-dog
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1.25 news on Beijing Station and Beijing West underground connection line



The 9.15km double line tunnel will be completed by July this year, the whole connection line will open in 2014 when millions of passengers don't have to suffer the transition difficulties between the two stations.

This project is way behind schedule. This is one of the most difficult digging projects of Beijing due to delay of land acquisition and hard geological conditions.

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Old January 29th, 2013, 11:51 PM   #5082
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that's nothing, up until right now, i haven't even heard of this project
it's like a million big digs or millau viaducts going on in china at the same time :o
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Old January 30th, 2013, 07:04 PM   #5083
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The decision to open toll roads to the public free of charge was meant to free up more capacity on the road, but last year's experience of wide spread congestion is again driving people to train travel which is still the most reliable means of transportation.
Making the roads toll-free is kind of ridiculous when you consider 1) all that extra traffic is going to increase the need for maintenance which has to be paid by someone, 2) China's road system is under-funded as it is (because the People's Congress has rejected gasoline taxes) and needs all the money it can get, and 3) one reason for a toll is to limit congestion. Lunar New Year is the perfect time for loss-making transportation modes to break even. Prices should increase to maximize revenue and put highways, railways, and airlines into the black and attract private investment.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 07:14 PM   #5084
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Making the roads toll-free is kind of ridiculous when you consider 1) all that extra traffic is going to increase the need for maintenance which has to be paid by someone, 2) China's road system is under-funded as it is (because the People's Congress has rejected gasoline taxes) and needs all the money it can get, and 3) one reason for a toll is to limit congestion. Lunar New Year is the perfect time for loss-making transportation modes to break even. Prices should increase to maximize revenue and put highways, railways, and airlines into the black and attract private investment.
That kind of mentality to milk people for profits during a major cultural festival will just generate civil unrest. The folks at the bottom of the chain (the have-nots) are the ones crowding the buses and cheap trains to get home for New Year. The middle class and above would not have too much difficulty taking a CRH train or even flying. Opening the toll roads for free would vastly increase capacity for cheap buses to run and transport millions home. It will not mean more private cars on roads as these poor people cannot afford driving.

Last year's congestion was made far worse by very nasty winter weather around the holiday season.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #5085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
1.25 news on Beijing Station and Beijing West underground connection line



The 9.15km double line tunnel will be completed by July this year, the whole connection line will open in 2014 when millions of passengers don't have to suffer the transition difficulties between the two stations.

This project is way behind schedule. This is one of the most difficult digging projects of Beijing due to delay of land acquisition and hard geological conditions.

link
what land acquisition? The bloody bore is 100 meters underground
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Old January 30th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #5086
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That kind of mentality to milk people for profits during a major cultural festival will just generate civil unrest. The folks at the bottom of the chain (the have-nots) are the ones crowding the buses and cheap trains to get home for New Year. The middle class and above would not have too much difficulty taking a CRH train or even flying. Opening the toll roads for free would vastly increase capacity for cheap buses to run and transport millions home. It will not mean more private cars on roads as these poor people cannot afford driving.
Removing tolls encourages people with cars to take their cars instead of a bus or train. Inter-city buses are really cheap even with tolls, so removing them would be only a tiny reduction in ticket prices for bus riders.

Who receives the majority of benefits from removing tolls? The middle and upper classes with cars. Poor migrant workers who ride buses or trains don't benefit that much.

You use "milk people for profit" without understanding the nature of markets and finance. There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay for the trains to operate and the roads to stay maintained. Who better than the people who use and benefit from them? If you keep train ticket prices low and remove highway tolls, how are you going to make up that lost revenue?

Nobody is forcing people to travel during these days. They can stay home. Or travel another time of the year. There are millions of overseas Chinese who don't go back to China for Lunar New Year, and they seem to get along alright. Do Americans revolt if they can't get home for Thanksgiving or Christmas? No, and I don't think Chinese would either.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 06:21 AM   #5087
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Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
what land acquisition? The bloody bore is 100 meters underground
Part of the project (about 2km) is on the ground. As previosuly mentioned this is one of the most complicated projects of Beijing. Both Beijing Station and Beijing West are located at the densely populated area. This project also leads to other projects such as drainage pipe re-route and power grid adjustment etc.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 10:15 AM   #5088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
1.25 news on Beijing Station and Beijing West underground connection line



The 9.15km double line tunnel will be completed by July this year, the whole connection line will open in 2014 when millions of passengers don't have to suffer the transition difficulties between the two stations.

This project is way behind schedule. This is one of the most difficult digging projects of Beijing due to delay of land acquisition and hard geological conditions.

link
This is significant, it will give a boost to Beijing Station and relieve a lot of pressure from Beijing West. I hope they open the connection line between Beijing West and Beijing South too.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 03:40 PM   #5089
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Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Removing tolls encourages people with cars to take their cars instead of a bus or train. Inter-city buses are really cheap even with tolls, so removing them would be only a tiny reduction in ticket prices for bus riders.

Who receives the majority of benefits from removing tolls? The middle and upper classes with cars. Poor migrant workers who ride buses or trains don't benefit that much.

You use "milk people for profit" without understanding the nature of markets and finance. There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay for the trains to operate and the roads to stay maintained. Who better than the people who use and benefit from them? If you keep train ticket prices low and remove highway tolls, how are you going to make up that lost revenue?

Nobody is forcing people to travel during these days. They can stay home. Or travel another time of the year. There are millions of overseas Chinese who don't go back to China for Lunar New Year, and they seem to get along alright. Do Americans revolt if they can't get home for Thanksgiving or Christmas? No, and I don't think Chinese would either.
You do not understand the nature of travelling within China and car ownership. People don't drive across provinces for hundreds of miles for fun. The highways are well-developed but the hotel infrastructure along major routes is not. It makes little sense for the middle class to drive long distances when flying and taking the train are relatively cheap. China is not the US.

It is the poor people who cannot afford planes and D/G trains that have to put up with long-distance travel on a K train or a bus. Eliminating the tolls does not mean wealthy people will start jumping into their cars to go half way across the country. Rather, the bus companies will send as many vehicles as they can because of economics. They won't likely discount the fares, but at least they save on the tolls and add that to profits.

The wealthy elite in China, especially those living in the cities, likely have hukou, or local residency. Hence, their extended families would likely have been established in these cities for a very long time in order to get hukou status. The migrants that have come over the past few decades do not have hukou, hence they are far more likely to have relatives scattered across the country, hence the need for inter-provincial and long distance travel.

What overseas Chinese do and don't do does not reflect what is happening in China. In China, travelling home for Chinese New Year is a big thing, and we already see the rush starting.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 06:07 PM   #5090
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You do not understand the nature of travelling within China and car ownership. People don't drive across provinces for hundreds of miles for fun. The highways are well-developed but the hotel infrastructure along major routes is not. It makes little sense for the middle class to drive long distances when flying and taking the train are relatively cheap. China is not the US.
Are you saying private cars never drive between cities in China? That's funny because in the dozens of pictures I've seen of Chinese highways posted on other threads I always see lots of four door sedans. You don't need a lot of highway hotels to encourage inter-city and cross country road travel. A husband and wife can easily drive 8 hours without stopping just be switching drivers every couple hours. In those 8 hours they probably pass through some medium to large cities in which there are hundreds of hotels. I've been on a lot of car trips in America and never stopped at highway hotel. We stayed in hotels in or on the outskirts of major cities, or relatives' homes.

The wealthy and middle classes do drive their cars hundreds of miles to their hometowns for the same reason they drive them to work everyday: to show off their wealth and enjoy the comfort and independence that comes from having your own car. People who made it rich in the city definitely want to show that off when they go their hometown in the countryside. Removing tolls in China is a subsidy for the rich and upper middle classes.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 06:39 PM   #5091
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Originally Posted by Geography View Post
Are you saying private cars never drive between cities in China? That's funny because in the dozens of pictures I've seen of Chinese highways posted on other threads I always see lots of four door sedans. You don't need a lot of highway hotels to encourage inter-city and cross country road travel. A husband and wife can easily drive 8 hours without stopping just be switching drivers every couple hours. In those 8 hours they probably pass through some medium to large cities in which there are hundreds of hotels. I've been on a lot of car trips in America and never stopped at highway hotel. We stayed in hotels in or on the outskirts of major cities, or relatives' homes.

The wealthy and middle classes do drive their cars hundreds of miles to their hometowns for the same reason they drive them to work everyday: to show off their wealth and enjoy the comfort and independence that comes from having your own car. People who made it rich in the city definitely want to show that off when they go their hometown in the countryside. Removing tolls in China is a subsidy for the rich and upper middle classes.
Cross country car travel is not common for the middle class and up, especially with cheap airfares and the CRH network which makes intercity travel a lot more convenient and faster. China is not the US, where public transportation and intercity rail networks are pitiful.

Are you claiming the highway photos you've seen are all intercity travel? So a few photos of city highways means people are now driving from Beijing to Shanghai en masse?

You still haven't answered the fundamental question on why a family needs to drive 8 hours over 700 km when they can do the trip in less than 3 using the CRH network, and the fact that residency is not easily interchangeable even within China, and the nature of the hukou system means the lower classes are split up (thus needs to travel) relative to the upper classes.

You still don't get China is not the US. The way people live and move around is very different. You can't slap US car culture onto China and assume the same is happening. That's not what is reality beholds on the ground.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 07:44 PM   #5092
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The upper middle class and rich drive cars because they want to show off their wealth and enjoy the private space. This is true for daily commuting and Lunar New Year. Flights and trains are jammed pack, why would a wealthy person put up with that if they didn't have to? The reason people get cars is to 1) show off their wealth, and 2) get away from public transportation. People buy cars to have their own space and not be jammed up against lots of strangers.

Lest you think I'm making an argument for a car-focused transportation system, I am not. I love public transit, I ride it all the time, and I strongly support China's investment in public transportation systems. It is for precisely this reason that I support taxes on gasoline and highway tolls. Those taxes discourage car use and encourage use of public transportation which is economically more efficient and less polluting.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 08:05 AM   #5093
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DF11G (max 170km/h)



by Luo chunxiao
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Old February 1st, 2013, 08:54 AM   #5094
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Originally Posted by Geography View Post
The upper middle class and rich drive cars because they want to show off their wealth and enjoy the private space. This is true for daily commuting and Lunar New Year. Flights and trains are jammed pack, why would a wealthy person put up with that if they didn't have to? The reason people get cars is to 1) show off their wealth, and 2) get away from public transportation. People buy cars to have their own space and not be jammed up against lots of strangers.

Lest you think I'm making an argument for a car-focused transportation system, I am not. I love public transit, I ride it all the time, and I strongly support China's investment in public transportation systems. It is for precisely this reason that I support taxes on gasoline and highway tolls. Those taxes discourage car use and encourage use of public transportation which is economically more efficient and less polluting.
The New Year's rush is all about migrants heading home for the holidays. It is not about sold-out CRH and airplane seats. We saw in past years when severe weather disrupted flights, that millions of migrants were stranded and many camped out at railway stations hoping for the trains to restart.

You fail to understand the residency system in China. The volume of migrants heading home is the big driving factor behind the transportation bottleneck. Migrants living in the coastal cities for work do not get residency, so they have very little incentive to relocate their entire families with them. Hence, they need to return home to the countryside via the cheapest methods before the New Year.

The middle class would not be as likely to be split up as badly. Besides, given their wealth, they could easily afford the tolls if they wanted to, but there is very little incentive to drive when taking the CRH or even flying are both relatively cheap in China.

You have not presented any empirical data to show rich people are a larger driving force behind the New Year transport crush. In fact, all the circumstantial evidence seen from past years' experience highlights a major problem with cheap train transport as tickets are quickly sold out and there is a severe shortage of seats. ID-linked tickets debuted as a result of this problem to counter scalping.

China has a lot of cars, but the level of car culture pales in comparison to the West.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 05:26 PM   #5095
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Beijing-Zhangjiakou railway (oldest rail of China)

near Qinglongqiao station, with the Great Wall on background



by [email protected]京包大拿
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Old February 4th, 2013, 04:18 AM   #5096
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Man purchases eight rail tickets to beat Spring Festival crush
2013-02-04 10:00:35
China Daily



Eight train tickets bought by Wang Dong, a PhD student in Shanghai, which will get him from Shanghai to his home city Deyang, Sichuan province. The trip is about 2,000 km, including transfers at fi ve cities, but is 12 hours quicker than taking a direct train. (Photo source: China Daily)

With eight train tickets and five transfers, it may sound like someone is heading for the South Pole, but in fact it is how one young man plans to return home during the holiday crush.

The modern day Phileas Fogg, Wang Dong, a native of Deyang, Sichuan province, is a second-year PhD student at Fudan University in Shanghai. Rather than going through the hassle of buying a direct train ticket from Shanghai to Deyang, the 27-year-old designed a unique railway route home to avoid having to buy train tickets during the holiday crush.

The trip is about 2,000 km, including transfers in five cities. He will leave Shanghai at 1:20 pm on Feb 8, travel through Nanjing, Hankou, Yichang, Dazhou, Chengdu and arrive at his final destination, Deyang at 11:50 am on Feb 9, Lunar New Year's Eve.

Wang researched the railway sections that have readily available tickets and arranged to transfer at those stops.

"I had barely any difficulty buying tickets in these sections," Wang said.

Tickets on the direct trains from Shanghai to Deyang are in short supply.

"There are only two direct trains. The first year in Shanghai, I lined up for five hours at the train station to buy the ticket," Wang said.

As Lunar New Year approaches, millions of Chinese are traveling home by any means possible. A record 3.4 billion trips are expected to be made during the crush, which runs from Jan 26 to March 6. The rail network is expected to handle 225 million trips.

Buying a train ticket may become a challenge.

In 2011, Wang designed his roundabout route home. "People assume that the transfers will take time, but in fact, my trip is 12 hours quicker than the direct train," he said.

The direct train between Shanghai and Deyang takes 34 hours, while Wang's trip takes about 22 hours.

Wang, who is a big fan of railways, also enjoys the experience. His micro blog is full of photos of trains.

"My roundabout trip will allow me to take four types of trains, from high-speed to regular trains," Wang said, adding that he loves the view along the journey. "Sometimes in one day, the train can take me from an white, icy world to a tropical beach. It's magic," Wang said.

He also enjoys the stories on the train along the trip.

"I can walk into any train station, watch the passengers around me and imagine their travel stories. Sometimes when I am standing in the middle of the train station hall, time seems to cease. People come and go, in a hurry or taking their time. It is like I am in a movie."

His love of trains began in high school. "My high school is next to the train station. I liked to watch the train come and go, and listen to the whistle."

Wang's friends always consult him about train routes.

Last year, he used his micro blog to document his train travel.

"I traveled about 30,000 km by train in 2012," he said.

He takes advantage of his expertise to design routes and buy train tickets during Spring Festival, but netizens have questioned whether more transfers could raise the risk of delays and missing the train.

"I am not a green hand in transfers. I make plans," Wang said.

His practice with train transfers comes with a love story. Wang's girlfriend works in Xiamen, and he studies in Shanghai. The direct train leaves in the morning and arrives at night. Wang designed a roundabout trip to spend a night on the train so he could spend time with his girlfriend in the day.

"The monthly trip to Xiamen is practice," he said.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 04:48 AM   #5097
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RMB 641 total, not a bad deal at all. It's doable for a college student like him, but for migrant workers who have lots of luggage and possibly kids it's impossible to make that many transfers.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 04:51 AM   #5098
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RMB 641 total, not a bad deal at all. It's doable for a college student like him, but for migrant workers who have lots of luggage and possibly kids it's impossible to make that many transfers.
Yes! But migrant workers would not be able to afford D and G trains to begin with!
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Old February 4th, 2013, 08:31 PM   #5099
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That's about 100 $, right? Quite reasonable for a trip that long, I think.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #5100
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T14 train in Hunan Province



by 一度停车_协力和衷[email protected]
nice, beautiful train....
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