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Old September 6th, 2013, 11:43 AM   #5401
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OK~ Thanx all.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #5402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traceparts View Post
150 million RMB /km 25 million USD/km
Does it mean that the construction of a railway is repaid by 357 million second class tickets? Then what remains is to repay the operating costs during the service of these passengers.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 06:06 PM   #5403
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Does it mean that the construction of a railway is repaid by 357 million second class tickets? Then what remains is to repay the operating costs during the service of these passengers.
Ticket income covers the operating cost, what remains pays back the construction cost. Of course other things pays into that pool too, such as profit from freight service, real estate sales around the station, retail space rental in the station, advertisements, etc.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #5404
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I'm surprised the cost is so high. If I remember correctly TGV standard in France is about 20 million euros per km on flat land. Not elevated of course, but still. I thought in China it would be cheaper...
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Old September 7th, 2013, 09:14 PM   #5405
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Well not elevated and flat.. that is the cheapest it can get. 25million/km is average for China so I think it is still significantly cheaper.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 05:32 AM   #5406
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drezdinski's wrote
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25 million RMB or USD per km? I'd say it's RMB, right?
25 million USD/km is very cheap.

For 25 million RMB/km you wont even cover the cost of materials.

And compare 25 million USD/km to costs in Japan or Europe. There you are faced with enourmous monetary efforts for planing, court fights, environmental laws, expensive acquisition of land. This all increases the km-price of high-speed rail.

In China, most of the high-speed railways are elevated. And this saves costs and is politically very smart. The farmers do not loose their land.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 10:52 PM   #5407
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I've often wondered if those pillars all go down deep enough to solid footing. We know there has been at least one reported problem with subsoil treatment on standard embankment, People's Daily, Bloomberg. The "collapse" was only 4mm, but the pressure at the base of those viaduct pillars must be greater than a standard embankment...
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #5408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc7austin View Post
25 million USD/km is very cheap.

For 25 million RMB/km you wont even cover the cost of materials.

And compare 25 million USD/km to costs in Japan or Europe. There you are faced with enourmous monetary efforts for planing, court fights, environmental laws, expensive acquisition of land. This all increases the km-price of high-speed rail.
25 million/km is reasonable, but not particularly cheap. About the same as it would cost in Spain or France provided the geography is not too difficult.

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Originally Posted by doc7austin View Post
In China, most of the high-speed railways are elevated. And this saves costs and is politically very smart. The farmers do not loose their land.
You sure about that? Elsewhere it would be a lot more expensive and thus not done unless there is a great need (ugly as well, but that's of course a matter of taste). Surely farmland in China is not more expensive than in France.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 01:46 AM   #5409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
I've often wondered if those pillars all go down deep enough to solid footing. We know there has been at least one reported problem with subsoil treatment on standard embankment, People's Daily, Bloomberg. The "collapse" was only 4mm, but the pressure at the base of those viaduct pillars must be greater than a standard embankment...
Not everywhere is Lujiazui's mud so it's actually pretty easy to hit bedrock on a lot of areas. The tolerance is so small on those HSR viaducts if they are not on solid ground they will sink more than 4mm by now.


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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
25 million/km is reasonable, but not particularly cheap. About the same as it would cost in Spain or France provided the geography is not too difficult.

You sure about that? Elsewhere it would be a lot more expensive and thus not done unless there is a great need (ugly as well, but that's of course a matter of taste). Surely farmland in China is not more expensive than in France.
Well if it cost France 20 million Euro to lay track on embankment then 25 million USD for viaduct work is significantly cheaper. I agree though using viaduct may not be a "cheap" solution, but one that's popular because it's less intrusive to the local residents. The advantages are obvious, in urban and suburban areas it saves a lot of land acquisition cost, the girders are manufactured on assembly line style factories so efficiency and quality can be better managed.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 03:48 AM   #5410
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Originally Posted by hmmwv View Post
Not everywhere is Lujiazui's mud so it's actually pretty easy to hit bedrock on a lot of areas. The tolerance is so small on those HSR viaducts if they are not on solid ground they will sink more than 4mm by now.
Or, they are build on deep concrete piles like skyscrapers do in China.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 09:46 AM   #5411
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My concern is if someone had scrimped the quality or quantity of concrete ...
I've seen 25 year old Chinese skyscrapers with concrete cancer worse than 80 year old buildings in other countries.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #5412
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Originally Posted by xinxingren View Post
My concern is if someone had scrimped the quality or quantity of concrete ...
I've seen 25 year old Chinese skyscrapers with concrete cancer worse than 80 year old buildings in other countries.
Then let's hope those comprehensive inspection trains they run at night can detect the slightest deformations if that's the case.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #5413
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Rail route to Europe improves freight transport
13 September 2013
China Daily

With shorter transport times and lower costs for freight, international rail lines linking central and western China with Central Asia have helped to improve connectivity and trade between the regions.

Starting in Chongqing, the Chongqing-Xinjiang-Europe International Railway passes through Xi'an, Lanzhou, Urumqi and the Alataw Pass, where it enters Kazakhstan, before continuing through Russia, Belarus and Poland, finally ending in Duisburg, Germany.

Stretching 11,179 kilometers, it takes just 16 days on average to transport goods from China to Europe by rail, 20 days fewer than by sea from China's eastern ports, making rail ideal for goods with a shorter shelf life.

The cost is one-fifth that of transporting cargo by air, and there is just one customs inspection along the whole route between Chongqing and Central Asia. Since it began operating in 2011, the cost of transporting goods on the line has also fallen, from 80 cents per 22 metric tons of cargo for every kilometer, to 70 cents.

Goods transported along the route include electronics, cars, and medical equipment.

It has been compared with the second Eurasian Continental Bridge, a train line that starts at Lianyungang in East China's Jiangsu province and passes through the Alataw Pass in Xinjiang before ending at Rotterdam in the Netherlands.

The Chongqing-Xinjiang-Europe line has provided a boost to Chongqing's economy. According to Yuxinou Logistics, which provides logistics services along the railway, from January to May this year, freight transported out of Chongqing rose 5.9 percent, and freight into the city rose 8.3 percent.

The line links South China's manufacturing hub and Southwest China's industrial belt with European markets. Along the route into Europe is Nizhny Novgorod, a major transportation and distribution hub in Russia.

With the rapid development of Sino-Russian economic and trade relations in recent years, an increasing range of Chinese goods have been distributed through Nizhny Novgorod Railway Station, with an average annual growth of 8 percent.

Of the 2,627 containers that passed through the station in the first half of this year, 846 came from China, carrying building materials, cars, groceries and chemical products.

Kazakh crossroads

Meanwhile, the railway has also received praise from officials in Kazakhstan.

"It changes the transportation networks in Kazakhstan and turns the country into the crossroads connecting China and Russia as well as Europe," said a vice-president of Kazakhstan state railway company KTZ.

The railway is very important for Kazakhstan, and the country will take further measures to tap its potential, including improving the efficiency of customs clearance and bringing in more powerful train engines, he said.

According to the Central Asian news provider TREND, at a meeting in May, the customs authorities of China and Kazakhstan agreed to establish a system for conducting customs clearance and control along the railway line. The two customs authorities aim to develop a strategic plan of cooperation for the 2014-18 period, it said.

"Economic cooperation and investments between China and Central Asian countries have developed very fast in recent years, which helps increase demand for better and faster logistics of those countries," said Sun Zhuangzhi, a researcher of Central Asian studies with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

"Central Asian countries are all inland states, so railways are especially important for them, because the railway offers them better connectivity with the outside world, so that they can better take part in global economic cooperation," he said.

In addition, the Chongqing-Xinjiang-Europe railway allows those Central Asian countries to gain access to the ports of China as well as European countries, he said.

Challenges ahead

Despite its apparent success, the line faces a few challenges in the years ahead.

A steady stream of imports and exports is required to keep the Chongqing-Europe railway going, but there are currently few exports from European countries. Chongqing is trying to solve this by promoting the line to Europe, and there is no guarantee of success.

There is also some competition with other lines that provide similarly low-cost overland transport to Europe. A line linking Asia and Europe was launched in July, running from Zhengzhou, a business and logistics center in Central China, to Hamburg, Europe's second largest port.

The route reaches Germany via Kazakhstan, Russia, Belarus and Poland, taking 18 days to cover the 10,214 km, more than twice as fast as by sea. It is also about 80 percent cheaper than air transport and significantly cheaper than going by road.

Like the line linking Chongqing and Duisburg, the Zhengzhou-Europe railway has to change gauges twice, a feat that is accomplished by crane.

The first transfer is a change to the Russian broad gauge line at the Alataw Pass on the border between China and Kazakhstan. The second is a transfer to standard gauge at the Poland-Belarus border.

The gauge transfer and technical service is provided by DB Schenker, the transport and logistics arm of Germany's national railway Deutsche Bahn, through its service network in Central Asia and Eastern Europe after the trains leave China.

The first freight train along this route had 41 containers, including 11 carrying vehicle parts, industrial yarn, high-end shoes and clothing on route to Hamburg, and a container of clothes destined for Rotterdam. The goods were valued at $2.33 million.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 07:25 AM   #5414
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One of the daftest ideas around ... so many would-be saboteurs along much of this wished route ... and what's with the repetitious gauge changes ... must be a crummy news outlet writing that one

Better off sticking with the trans-Siberian line ... hell, even the parallel Mongolian segment's worthier
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Last edited by trainrover; September 14th, 2013 at 07:31 AM.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #5415
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Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
One of the daftest ideas around ... so many would-be saboteurs along much of this wished route ... and what's with the repetitious gauge changes ... must be a crummy news outlet writing that one

Better off sticking with the trans-Siberian line ... hell, even the parallel Mongolian segment's worthier
?

You need to change gauge in trans-siberian one too. Also I think there is a demand for this service, it is faster than ship slower than air and priced accordingly. Makes sense to me.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 09:15 AM   #5416
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Fine, then let the bloody trunk route be recurringly bombed otherwise 3(?) additional days' worth of haulage wouldn't compromise service as much. Plus why devise a repetitious gauge change in a new trunk route, thus that in itself makes no sense, right ... The wish is flimsy, e.g., why ain't dual-gauge track considered.

If you think the Middle East is bad enough, just wait and watch what'll happen around Central Asia
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Old September 14th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #5417
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Plus why devise a repetitious gauge change in a new trunk route, thus that in itself makes no sense, right ... The wish is flimsy, e.g., why ain't dual-gauge track considered.
I don't believe anybody devised a double gauge transfer, it's just a historic fact that the entire previous Soviet system is on broad gauge. Fortunately on this line all the pictured trains I have seen are standard container flat wagons, and a crane sits between the two lines lifting the containers off one onto the other. Not at all like the bogie changes in Mongolia, or at the Polish border.

Lessee, 6000 km of dual gauge line at $XX/km, plus a truckload of dangerous and unreliable dual gauge switches. Or would you rather change the whole Russian (ex-Soviet) system to standard gauge? I know they did the whole Great Western over one weekend, but that was a smaller job ...
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Old September 15th, 2013, 06:48 AM   #5418
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Project canceled, & may start as Iran-China:
Китай пока отложил строительство жд в Узбекистан:

Железную дорогу Китай-Кыргызстан-Узбекистан так и не построят[/URL]
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Есть другой проект, гораздо более выгодный. Его предлагает официальный Тегеран, ратующий за прокладку трассы Иран-Афганистан-Таджикистан-Кыргызстан-Китай. Причем строиться она будет за персидские деньги, и нам не придется потом расплачиваться. Вторая причина, это то, что китайский вариант не решает нашей главное проблемы – соединение Севера и юга страны. Соглашение предполагало, что железная дорога прошла бы через безлюдные места. В частности пастбища. Это, в свою очередь, вызвало крайнее недовольство местного населения, прекрасно понявшего, что это самое настоящее начало экспансии.
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Old September 15th, 2013, 06:56 AM   #5419
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Which project? The one touched upon in the article that that moderator fully copied above here?
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Old September 15th, 2013, 07:02 AM   #5420
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Part of. China-Kyrgyz-Ozbekiston.
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