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Old January 1st, 2009, 03:56 PM   #1121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test0012 View Post
Incorrect.

Train C2201, C2201, C2202, ... C2212 between Beijing South Station and Tianjin Station stop at Wuqing Station.

Train D301 and D302 Beijing-Shanghai sleeper EMU stop at Wuxi (before 2009-01-02) or Changzhou (after 2009-01-02); Train D305 and D306 sleeper EMU between Beijing and Shanghai stop at Nanjing; Train D309 from Beijing to Hangzhou stop at Wuxi after 2009-01-02, and D310 from Hangzhou to Beijing will stop at Changzhou after 2009-01-01.
hm... I never noticed that trains between Tianjin and Beijing are actually stopping anywhere... What are the departure times of those you've mentioned?Early morning?

For the second part I think you have actually supported point. Neither Neither of the places you've listed are in the category we were talking off. They are all major cities in they own right. Also stop at Wuxi and even Nanjing is clearly to provide Bejing-Wuxi and Beijing-Nanjing service since it is just any huor or so ride from Shanghai (Wuxi, Nanjing is a bit farther...).

But all the smaller towns along those rots are effectively cut off from them. But, I guess, that's is the nature of high speed train service. It can't stop on every station, or it wouldn't be high speed
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Old January 1st, 2009, 04:38 PM   #1122
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Originally Posted by SimFox View Post
hm... I never noticed that trains between Tianjin and Beijing are actually stopping anywhere... What are the departure times of those you've mentioned?Early morning?
All the day. It's not a single train, but twelve from both direction.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 09:34 PM   #1123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimFox View Post
hm... I never noticed that trains between Tianjin and Beijing are actually stopping anywhere... What are the departure times of those you've mentioned?Early morning?

For the second part I think you have actually supported point. Neither Neither of the places you've listed are in the category we were talking off. They are all major cities in they own right. Also stop at Wuxi and even Nanjing is clearly to provide Bejing-Wuxi and Beijing-Nanjing service since it is just any huor or so ride from Shanghai (Wuxi, Nanjing is a bit farther...).

But all the smaller towns along those rots are effectively cut off from them. But, I guess, that's is the nature of high speed train service. It can't stop on every station, or it wouldn't be high speed
All trains stop at Wuqing, some trains stop at more places though. Wuqing is a town of 50,000, and the other stops on the route have populations of around 20-100,000; at least one train stops at a low-demand HSR stop per day.

Same thing for Shanghai-Beijing, but the cities along the stops are bigger...it stops at Tianjin West and some other stops, in addition to the stops already mentioned.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 10:33 PM   #1124
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Incorrect. Only 12 trains stop at Wuqing. Currently, no other stations is open for service on the Beijing-Tianjin line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
All trains stop at Wuqing, some trains stop at more places though. Wuqing is a town of 50,000, and the other stops on the route have populations of around 20-100,000; at least one train stops at a low-demand HSR stop per day.

Same thing for Shanghai-Beijing, but the cities along the stops are bigger...it stops at Tianjin West and some other stops, in addition to the stops already mentioned.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 06:44 AM   #1125
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Alstom attacks Chinese train exports

By Robert Wright in London

Last updated: January 1 2009 by The Financial Times

Western countries should close their markets to sales of Chinese trains because China’s domestic market is closing to outside suppliers, says the head of one of the world’s largest rolling stock builders.

In a Financial Times interview, Philippe Mellier, chief executive of Paris-based Alstom Transport, also claimed that Chinese companies were offering trains for export using technology derived from western suppliers. Such technology is usually supplied on condition it not be used outside China. The comments by Mr Mellier, whose company is the world’s number two trainmaker, underline the growing tension in the world’s train-building industry over China’s role.

China promises to become one of the world’s most significant markets for high-speed trains, metro cars, freight locomotives and many other forms of rolling stock. However, after a period when China signed contracts with several suppliers from other parts of the world to transfer technology to itself, it is gradually insisting new trains be entirely domestically designed and built. Chinese manufacturers are also increasingly seeking orders in the European heartland of Alstom, Bombardier Transportation, the world number one, and Siemens, the number three. One has already won a small order to build trains for the UK market, while another was included in a shortlist of bidders for an order by the UK’s Department for Transport on December 22.

Mr Mellier said: “We’re starting to see Chinese companies answering tenders around the world with Chinese freight locomotives, some of them being based on transferred technology.” A similar process was under way with tenders to supply metro cars, he added. Mr Mellier, whose company builds France’s TGV high-speed train and has exported high-speed trains to several countries, pointed out that tenders for high-speed trains for new Beijing to Shanghai services specified they be entirely Chinese-built and designed. “In line with our expectations, the market is gradually shutting down to let the Chinese companies prosper,” he said. “If the market is now closing down, we don’t think it’s a good idea for other countries to open their markets to such a technology because there’s no reciprocity any more.”

&

Alstom rattled by Asia’s train exports

By Robert Wright, Transport Correspondent

Last updated: January 1 2009 by The Financial Times

Other countries, suggests Philippe Mellier, chief executive of Paris-based Alstom Transport, should consider blocking Chinese train exports. It is only the latest sign of worsening tension about increasing competitiveness of Asian train manufacturers.

Builders in China, Japan and South Korea tended in the past either to develop technology for purely domestic use or to work with technology imported from one of the three big international manufacturers – the German-based trainmaking operation of Canada’s Bombardier, France’s Alstom or Germany’s Siemens. Now trainmakers in Asia’s three biggest economies benefit from rapidly increasing domestic rail investment, using it as the springboard for an export drive that leaves many in the European heart of the industry uncomfortable. None of these Asian countries has in modern times allowed the import of a wholly foreign-built, foreign-designed train.

The issues are all the more acute because many European governments are investing heavily in their railways, for environmental reasons and to boost battered economies. Europe’s big three builders are unwilling to see orders for trains go to markets where they cannot export products back. China’s position gives particular grounds for concern because of suspicion many of its builders’ designs draw heavily on technology transferred from Europe, North America or Japan. Some appear to be using that technology to compete with those suppliers’ home markets.

It seems likely there will be few further opportunities for outsiders to participate in the investment of at least $180bn in railways under way during China’s 2006-10 five-year plan. Mr Mellier says that, after designs are bought from Hitachi or Kawasaki of Japan – both of whom have supplied technology used in Japanese Shinkansen trains to China – or Bombardier, the technology is “made Chinese”. “They will use them, adapt them, aggregate them to [form] a Chinese technology based on foreign technology being leased by them,” he says. “I sincerely believe that all the many tenders for rolling stock and signalling will be for Chinese companies and the access for non-Chinese companies will be kept to a bare minimum.”

Issues about Japanese and Korean markets are similar to those in China, Mr Mellier reckons. Japan’s manufacturers have their own technology and face no foreign competition in their protected home market. Korea’s market is closed. Hyundai Rotem, the country’s biggest trainmaker, has begun to produce its own high speed train after a technology transfer deal by which it used Alstom’s TGV design for Korea’s 300kph KTX express. “We sold the Koreans a technology for very high speed trains, which is now 20 years old, and they have ‘developed’ their own technology based on our old technology.”

Mr Mellier’s concerns are far from theoretical. Japan’s Hitachi is building its first European order, a series of 225kph trains for high-speed domestic services between London and Kent in the UK, Europe’s most open rail market.

Two China State Railways subsidiaries won an order to supply three 200kph trains to Grand Central, a British company, in 2007, while CSR Nanjing Puzhen was on a shortlist to supply 200 diesel train carriages to the UK announced on December 22. Hyundai Rotem was on the same British shortlist and has supplied trains to the Athens metro. But Mr Mellier insists companies like his have means to manage the conflict between selling trains to emerging Asian markets and risking losing valuable technology – they should not sell their latest technology. “It is very important for Alstom to sell [older] technology when we’re shooting a little bit ahead and we are developing and selling a newer technology that is going to give us a competitive edge,” he says. Koreans have a 300kph domestically produced, single-deck train, but Alstom markets its double deck, 320kph Duplex and 360kph single deck AGV. “Transfer of technology is good,” he says. “But it has to be entered into carefully, so that the selling company isn’t damaged in return.”
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 09:09 AM   #1126
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Originally Posted by 02tonyl View Post
China to double railway investment in 2009

2008-12-31

BEIJING - Amid a surge in planned infrastructure projects next year aimed at boosting domestic demand, China plans to almost double its investment in railways to about 600 billion yuan (US$87.9 billion).

The money is part of the 4-trillion-yuan stimulus package announced by the government earlier this year.

In 2008, China spent 330 billion yuan on railways, according to a national conference on railway construction held here Wednesday.

Part of next year's 600 billion yuan would be used to build a total of 5,148 km of new rails, said Minister of Railways Liu Zhijun at the meeting.

The money will also help put five passenger-dedicated, high-speed lines into operation next year, according to Liu. These rails will link the central city of Wuhan to the southern city of Guangzhou; Zhengzhou in central Henan Province to Xi'an in northwest Shaanxi Province; Ningbo to Wenzhou, both in east China's Zhejiang Province; Wenzhou to Fuzhou in southern Fujian Province; and Fuzhou to Xiamen, also in Fujian.

The ministry also planned to start 70 new projects next year with part of the money. Those projects will need a total investment of 1.5 trillion yuan to be completed, Liu said.

Rail transport strain to be eased

Liu also predicted railway travel would be much easier by 2012. Currently, there are not enough seats for all the people who want to travel, especially during the Spring Festival every year, when millions are on the move.

"There could be a historical change in the country's railway transport by 2012. The bottle-neck restraints both in passenger and cargo transportation could be removed," he said.

Railways inside the country would reach 110,000 km by 2012. About 13,000 km of passenger lines, which allow trains to travel between 200 to 350 km per hour, would be put into use.

"Such coverage of passenger rails should be able to ensure that passenger needs are satisfied," he said

Rail lines across the country added up to 78,000 km at the end of 2007.

The ministry also plans to add more rails to busy routes and to provide separate rails for passenger and cargo transport. This should also help boost transport capacity and efficiency by 2012.

Liu envisioned inter-city rail systems would be put into place by 2012 in populous regions, such as the Shanghai-led Yangtze River Delta, Guangzhou-centered Pearl River Delta and Beijing-led Bohai areas.

Construction on railways began to boom in China after the country initiated a mid- and long-term plan in 2004. Liu said the country revised the plan this year so the distance of rail lines would increase to 120,000 km by 2020, from the original goal of 100,000 km.

The country also raised rail speeds to help with passenger flow. The latest change came in April last year.

About 1.46 billion people traveled by rail this year, up 10.9 percent from last year. Both transport capacity and efficiency had improved after train speeds increased, Liu said.

In addition, 3.3 billion tonnes of cargo had been delivered by rail, up 4.9 percent year on year.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...nt_7358177.htm
Something similar from the foreign newswires :

China to boost railway spending by 80 percent
31 December 2008

BEIJING (AP) - China will raise its spending on railway construction by 80 percent in 2009 to $87.9 billion as part of a stimulus plan to boost domestic demand, state media said Wednesday.

The official Xinhua News Agency said the figure of 600 billion yuan ($87.9 billion) for railway infrastructure projects was announced at a national railway meeting. The country spent $48.35 billion (330 billion yuan) on railway construction in 2008, it said.

The spending is part of a $586 billion (4 trillion yuan) stimulus package announced by the government in November.

Xinhua did not say how much of the spending was new money and how much was previously budgeted.

It quoted Railway Minister Liu Zhijun as saying 3,200 miles (5,148 kilometers) of new lines would be built in 2009.

Five high-speed passenger lines will also go into operation next year, Liu said. Most of the lines are in southern China.

Liu said 70 projects would be started in 2009 as part of a goal of easing a rail transport strain by 2012.

"There could be a historic change in the country's railway transport by 2012. The bottleneck restraints both in passenger and cargo transportation could be removed," Liu was quoted as saying.

Total railway lines could reach 68,000 miles (110,000 kilometers) in 2012, up from 48,500 miles (78,000 kilometers) at the end of 2007.

Xinhua said about 1.46 billion people traveled by rail in 2008, up 10.9 percent from the previous year. About 3.3 billion tons of cargo was delivered by rail in 2008, up 4.9 percent from 2007, it said.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:42 PM   #1127
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HXD 3B high power locomotive

HXD 3B high power locomotive built by Dalian Locomotive Works(Dloco) with 9600 kw is the most powerful single locomotive(C0-C0) in the wolrd (without consideration of the 2B0-B0(2C0-C0) locomotives). This is the highest level locomotive in China. The prototype of this loco is Bombardier's IORE.
It will haul 5500t freight trains with 120km/h . This locomotive will be mainly used on the 250km/h passenger dedicated line(like from Hefei to Wuchang) for fast heavy freight train service.
image hosted on flickr

Last edited by clkgtr; January 2nd, 2009 at 04:59 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:43 PM   #1128
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Edit

Last edited by snow is red; January 2nd, 2009 at 06:01 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:54 PM   #1129
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China Railway Construction Wins CNY7bn Orders

Thu. January 01, 2009

Chinese railway tycoon China Railway Construction Co., Ltd. (SHSE: 601186; SEHK: 1186) lately received the letter of acceptance from Chengdu-Lichuan Railway Co., Ltd.

The company's three subsidiaries, China Railway 12th Bureau Group Co., Ltd., China Railway 11th Bureau Group Co., Ltd., and China Railway 18th Bureau Group Co., Ltd., separately bade for the No.1, No.2, and No.5 section of the Chengdu-Lichuan railway civil engineering, and the total bidding price stood at around CNY 7.08 billion.

Established in Beijing on November 5, 2007, China Railway Construction is under the leadership of China Railway Construction Corporation. Remarkably, it has been the nation's biggest railway operator for three consecutive years, in terms of revenue from the engineering construction.

In the first half of 2008, the company entered into new engineering contracts worth CNY 137.616 billion, with a 117% rocket year on year, and the total value accounted for 55% of its plan for the entire 2008.

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...0News/2104723/
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 03:57 PM   #1130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clkgtr View Post
HXD 3B high power locomotive built by Dalian Locomotive Works(Dloco) with 9600 kw is the most powerful single locomotive(C0-C0) in the wolrd (without consideration of the 2B0-B0(2C0-C0) locomotives). This is the highest level locomotive in China. The prototype of this loco is Bombardier's IORE.
It will haul 5500t freight trains with 120km/h . This locomotive will mainly used on the 250km/h passenger dedicated line(like from Hefei to Wuchang) for fast heavy freight train service.
I think there is something wrong with the picture. 9600 kW is quite a large upgrade considering that the Bombardier's IORE only has 5400 kW output.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:07 PM   #1131
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I think there is something wrong with the picture. 9600 kW is quite a large upgrade considering that the Bombardier's IORE only has 5400 kW output.
Yes it is a great upgrade,hehe

What do you think is wrong with the pic?
This pic is from the official CNR website.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:08 PM   #1132
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I can't see half of the picture, or maybe you can resize the picture that would help. Thanks.

Last edited by snow is red; January 2nd, 2009 at 04:16 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:14 PM   #1133
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China's electrified railways second longest in the world

December 29, 2008

China now has already built 26,000 kilometers of electrified railway trunk lines, making the length ranks second in the world.

Electrified railways account for 32.7% of the total railway lines nationwide, transporting 50% of the overall passenger and cargo volume.

Of the nation's total electrified railway lines, lines built by the China Railway Electrification Bureau (Group) Company make up over 80%.

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9...2/6563830.html
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:17 PM   #1134
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Originally Posted by 02tonyl View Post
I can't see half of the picture.
I uploaded it to Flickr,hope you could see the loco this timeimage hosted on flickr
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:21 PM   #1135
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ah yes I can see now, thank you.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 06:37 PM   #1136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02tonyl View Post
China's electrified railways second longest in the world

December 29, 2008

China now has already built 26,000 kilometers of electrified railway trunk lines, making the length ranks second in the world.

Electrified railways account for 32.7% of the total railway lines nationwide, transporting 50% of the overall passenger and cargo volume.

Of the nation's total electrified railway lines, lines built by the China Railway Electrification Bureau (Group) Company make up over 80%.

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9...2/6563830.html
It's a disgrace that China has more electrified railway than the United States.

I am not criticizing CHina, in fact, I am very happy that it is making such a large investment in its rail infrastructure, but rather the U.S. for neglecting its own rail infrastructure for so long.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 01:24 AM   #1137
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It's a disgrace that China has more electrified railway than the United States.
Which country is first?? Russia??
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 08:14 AM   #1138
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The US has had hardly any electrified rail. We probably have less than small countries like Belgium, though I wouldn't know.

You have the Amtrak Northeast Corridor, Keystone Corridor, and suburban networks in New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago. The only electric freight is on 3 short coal hauling lines directly connected to power plants, that use old Mexican electric locos. There is one in Arizona and two in Texas. We did have at least two electric transcontinental routes, Great Northern, and the Milwaukee Road. But they dismantled the wires in 1971, just in time for the fuel crisis actually, which is why Milwaukee Road went out of business in a matter of months. Great Northern became the "northern" in "Burlington Northern", and then the "N" in "BNSF".

I think it has to do with the fact that unlike other countries where in the 20th century, specifically wartime Europe the government had to nationalize rail transport to keep industry going and needed to find an alternative to oil for fuel; in the US our rail network has for the most part been privately owned and operated and diesel fuel fairly abundant to where electrification simply has never made business sense to them I guess.

Last edited by zaphod; January 3rd, 2009 at 08:29 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 08:17 AM   #1139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
It's a disgrace that China has more electrified railway than the United States.

I am not criticizing CHina, in fact, I am very happy that it is making such a large investment in its rail infrastructure, but rather the U.S. for neglecting its own rail infrastructure for so long.
That may change, the US could potentially have more electric rail some day. The US has more buildable space than China does. The US could come out on top one day.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 10:04 PM   #1140
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That may change, the US could potentially have more electric rail some day. The US has more buildable space than China does. The US could come out on top one day.
This disgraceful love for roads are a shame not just for US but for my Brazil too.
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