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Old April 21st, 2009, 12:42 PM   #1461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
considering the hugh population along this HSR line, there's no other choices.
you are of course wrong

there are stations 80-100 kms from each other , like Lyon Avignon or Provance
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Old April 21st, 2009, 01:17 PM   #1462
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Sorry I was talking about the population along the Beijing-Shanghai line makes frequent stops the only option.
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Old April 21st, 2009, 04:58 PM   #1463
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post

Sorry I was talking about the population along the Beijing-Shanghai line makes frequent stops the only option.
well, take a look at some HSR stations: they allow for trains to pass through the middle at 350 kph as well as have platforms and separate tracks for stopping trains

there will be trains that
- only stop at beijing and shanghai
- that stop at 100-120 km intervals (every station)
- that stop at selected stations (not just the ends but not at every station)

the benefit of a completely 350kph, completely passenger-oriented line on such long distances, is that:
- once these extremely long distance trains accelerate to 350kph, they will be able to do that speed for 1000-1500-2000 kms (in case of Beijing-Hong Kong, this will be true!!!), so the average speed will be very very close to the max speed
- you dont have the limiting factors (speed, capacity etc.) of accounting for freight or slower passenger trains
- trains that do stop regularly can pull over while the non-stop train passes by in the middle


i have a nasty feeling that when the chinese are done with their 20-30.000 km project, they will have to modernize the old lines because still they will need more capacity
the numbers are staggering
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Old April 21st, 2009, 05:00 PM   #1464
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also, with ETCS the headway between trains travelling at 350 kph will be down to a few minutes!!! they will be able to move 15-20 trains hourly per direction....at this speed :o
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Old April 23rd, 2009, 04:38 AM   #1465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaohua2000 View Post
Shijiazhuang–Taiyuan Passenger Railway, 250 km/h, opened on April 1, 2009

This line cut the travel time between Shijiazhuang to Taiyuan from 04h59m to 01h13m.



Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmulder_ms View Post
Arent there too many legs of that bridge? Nice pictures, tnx.
My thoughts exactly...they should have used less materials with a better truss design. What a waste.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 04:51 AM   #1466
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I am sure there is a reason but I dont know what it is. It looks really weird. May be it is because of the angle we look but still it looks excessive.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 09:07 AM   #1467
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You can see one arched section where the span is longer. It's in the foreground.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 09:42 AM   #1468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisel View Post
My thoughts exactly...they should have used less materials with a better truss design. What a waste.
This is Yehe Bridge (冶河特大桥), 1688.8m, 52 holes, one of the 94 bridges on this HSR route.

The multi-hole bridge design is to resist the rare flood from the plain underneath.

here's one construction pic.


(baidu.com)
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Old April 24th, 2009, 11:10 AM   #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisel View Post
My thoughts exactly...they should have used less materials with a better truss design. What a waste.

These are professionals that designed and built the bridge. I'm sure the civil engineer had a reason to implement this design. We shouldn't criticize the type of bridge use without knowing the true facts. It could be many factors such as weather, soil, wind, earthquakes, and floods. It could also be the cost of upkeeping this bridge it could be a cheaper alternative means maybe due to its location.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 11:22 AM   #1470
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bravo, great
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Old April 24th, 2009, 11:54 AM   #1471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
well, take a look at some HSR stations: they allow for trains to pass through the middle at 350 kph as well as have platforms and separate tracks for stopping trains

there will be trains that
- only stop at beijing and shanghai
- that stop at 100-120 km intervals (every station)
- that stop at selected stations (not just the ends but not at every station)

the benefit of a completely 350kph, completely passenger-oriented line on such long distances, is that:
- once these extremely long distance trains accelerate to 350kph, they will be able to do that speed for 1000-1500-2000 kms (in case of Beijing-Hong Kong, this will be true!!!), so the average speed will be very very close to the max speed
- you dont have the limiting factors (speed, capacity etc.) of accounting for freight or slower passenger trains
- trains that do stop regularly can pull over while the non-stop train passes by in the middle
Have a look at Tokaido Shinkansen of Japan.

515 km long. Maximum speed of some 300 km/h.

The fastest trains, named Nozomi, cover the distance in 2:25. With 4 intermediate stops: Nagoya, Kyoto and two stations on Tokyo suburbs (Shinagawa and Yokohama).

Japanese might have express trains on Shinkansen, and skip even those stops. They don´t.

They do have a lot of Hikari and Kodama services - Kodama has 17 stops and takes 4 hours, and Hikari is intermediate. This means that a lot of Nozomi and Hikari trains must somehow get past the slower trains. They do.

How many stops do you think should Beijing-Shanghai trains have at the very minimum? And how many should the slower trains have?
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Old April 24th, 2009, 02:09 PM   #1472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post






(pics taken Feb in Dalian, hasea.com)
Amazing!!! Is there so cool winters in China?
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Old April 24th, 2009, 02:37 PM   #1473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Have a look at Tokaido Shinkansen of Japan.

515 km long. Maximum speed of some 300 km/h.

The fastest trains, named Nozomi, cover the distance in 2:25. With 4 intermediate stops: Nagoya, Kyoto and two stations on Tokyo suburbs (Shinagawa and Yokohama).

Japanese might have express trains on Shinkansen, and skip even those stops. They don´t.
The french do. The distance between Paris Gare de Lyon and Marseille Saint-Charles is ~720 kms and the travel time is ~3 hrs. I think there are non-stop trains.

Quote:
ow many stops do you think should Beijing-Shanghai trains have at the very minimum? And how many should the slower trains have?
I dont know. But I have read earlier that they will have non-stop service.

Finding the optimum is a complex mathematical modelling, which I'm sure they'll calculate.

However, you have two cities with rougly 20 million (!) people in both of them within a few hrs from each other. I BET you can fill even the non-stop trains with people.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 08:57 PM   #1474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
The french do. The distance between Paris Gare de Lyon and Marseille Saint-Charles is ~720 kms and the travel time is ~3 hrs. I think there are non-stop trains.



I dont know. But I have read earlier that they will have non-stop service.

Finding the optimum is a complex mathematical modelling, which I'm sure they'll calculate.

However, you have two cities with rougly 20 million (!) people in both of them within a few hrs from each other. I BET you can fill even the non-stop trains with people.


The cities are 11 hours away from each other. And between them there are many other cities with population over 5 million and countless municipalities with over 1 million people.

How many stops a minimum?

The answer is none. A non-stopping train is rightfully justified in this situation and the demand has been proven to be there with already functioning conventional non-stopping trains. But will there be high speed trains running on the Beijing-Shanghai lane that stops at stations? Certainly yes. There will be many stations (someone with actual time can try to count them) along the high-speed line and all of them are meant to be serviced.

There will be some trains with fewer stops and some trains with more stops. And similarly to the rest of the Chinese network, the trains with fewer stops will most likely have higher priority to the ones that stops more often.
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Last edited by UD2; April 24th, 2009 at 09:03 PM.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 09:14 PM   #1475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zergcerebrates View Post
These are professionals that designed and built the bridge. I'm sure the civil engineer had a reason to implement this design. We shouldn't criticize the type of bridge use without knowing the true facts. It could be many factors such as weather, soil, wind, earthquakes, and floods. It could also be the cost of upkeeping this bridge it could be a cheaper alternative means maybe due to its location.
I have mentioned the reason for this design in my post: flood resisting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Morning View Post
Amazing!!! Is there so cool winters in China?
China's weather is almost the same with US: cold north, warm south, dry west, humid east.
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Old April 24th, 2009, 09:45 PM   #1476
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I believe its northern China on the pics? Where that pics were taken?
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Old April 25th, 2009, 12:00 AM   #1477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
(pics taken Feb in Dalian, hasea.com)
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Morning View Post
I believe its northern China on the pics? Where that pics were taken?
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Old April 25th, 2009, 04:14 AM   #1478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Morning View Post
I believe its northern China on the pics? Where that pics were taken?
Yes those pictures were taken in Dalian, 2nd largest city in Liaoning Province. Liaoning Province is located in the Northeast of China.
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Old April 25th, 2009, 04:20 AM   #1479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post


(pics taken Feb in Dalian, hasea.com)
A sad message is that the Department of Railway had quit buying
DF series and SS series locomotives last year. Factories had ceased production of SSs that time, and DFs are produced with small quantities for big enterpnises and mines which have private railways. The two series had been produced for almost 50 years.

SS 韶山 means electric locomotive, which was replaced by HXD 河蟹电. HXD means electric locomotive AC transmission.
DF 东风 means diesel locomotive DC transmission., which was replaced by HXN 河蟹内. HXN means diesel locomotive AC transmission.
Another popular locomotive series is DFH 东方红,which means diesel locomotive hydrodynamic transmission, production had been ceased last century.
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Old April 25th, 2009, 04:34 AM   #1480
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Quote:
SS 韶山 means electric locomotive, which was replaced by HXD 河蟹电. HXD means electric locomotive AC transmission.
DF 东风 means diesel locomotive DC transmission., which was replaced by HXN 河蟹内. HXN means diesel locomotive AC transmission.
Another popular locomotive series is DFH 东方红,which means diesel locomotive hydrodynamic transmission, production had been ceased last century.
You really have a sense of HUMOR!
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