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Old November 23rd, 2009, 05:55 AM   #1901
urbanfan89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteeclipse View Post
I'm thinking half of the trains are for the notheast of China which will not require a/c due to the weather in that area.
The winter of the northeast of China is similar to the winter of Russia. You will need a/c. Perhaps those trains are for the peasant workers who need faster travel but who cannot afford spiffier a/c trains.
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 06:00 AM   #1902
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Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
The winter of the northeast of China is similar to the winter of Russia. You will need a/c. Perhaps those trains are for the peasant workers who need faster travel but who cannot afford spiffier a/c trains.
All CRH trains have A/C.

For ordinary trains, the A/C ratio in the northeast is lower than those in the other parts of China.
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Old November 24th, 2009, 07:24 AM   #1903
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Express railway link on schedule

Created: 2009-11-22
Author:Zha Minjie

A KEY express railway project linking Beijing to Shanghai took a major step forward yesterday when workers finished the steel structure of a railway station in west Shanghai's Hongqiao Integrated Transport Hub.

The builders estimated in August that the structure would be finished by the end of September, more than a month ahead of schedule. But Shanghai Railway Bureau publicity official Tao Liping said: "The project has not been delayed. The construction is right on schedule." Authorities said the interior decoration starts today in Hongqiao Railway Station which is expected to be operational by next July. Nearly 80,000 tons of steel, almost double that used in the Beijing National Stadium, the bird's nest, have been used in the 240,000-square-meter station, making it the biggest in the city. The station, the Shanghai end of the rail link, is designed to carry 52.72 million passengers each year after completion. The volume will increase to 78.38 million in the long term.

The 1,318-kilometer Shanghai-Beijing express railway is expected to become the primary rail artery between the capital city and Shanghai, featuring speeds of 350 kilometers per hour. A trip between Shanghai and Beijing will take only about five hours on the future link, less than about half of the current 10 to 12 hours.

The under-construction Hongqiao Integrated Transport Hub, connected to Hongqiao International Airport, will serve as host station for the express railway as well as for future high-speed trains from Shanghai to Zhejiang and Jiangsu provinces.

Shanghai Daily
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Old November 24th, 2009, 07:28 AM   #1904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
The winter of the northeast of China is similar to the winter of Russia. You will need a/c. Perhaps those trains are for the peasant workers who need faster travel but who cannot afford spiffier a/c trains.
To use a a/c train I'm thinking the cost may increase 10-15% which is not much but I don't see peasant workers using the high speed trains, they will use the slow trains to save as much money as they can.
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Old November 24th, 2009, 07:30 AM   #1905
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China speeds up railway building in western regions

(Xinhua)
Updated: 2009-11-24

China would extend railways to more than 50,000 kilometers in its vast western regions by 2020, a senior railway official said on Monday. More investment will be made in railway construction in the western regions in the coming several years to serve local economic and social development, said Yan Hexiang, deputy director of the development planning department of the Ministry of Railways. The ministry will step up building of major railways currently under construction and push construction of more projects such as the Chengdu-Guiyang railway, Chongqing-Guiyang railway and Kunming-Nanning railway to start at an early date, Yan told a meeting on railway development in western China.

China launched the "West Development Strategy" in January 2000 to help underdeveloped western regions catch up with the more prosperous eastern regions. The western regions comprise 12 provinces, autonomous regions and municipality, which have a combined population of about 370 million and account for 71.4 percent of the country's total land area.

Since the implementation of the strategy, the operating mileage of railways in the western regions jumped 50 percent from 20,000 kilometers to nearly 30,000 kilometers at the end of 2008, accounting for 36 percent of China's total operating mileage. China's total railway length will top 120,000 kilometers by 2020, Yan said.
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Old November 24th, 2009, 11:12 AM   #1906
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Originally Posted by ANR View Post
China would extend railways to more than 50,000 kilometers in its vast western regions by 2020, a senior railway official said on Monday. More investment will be made in railway construction in the western regions in the coming several years to serve local economic and social development, said Yan Hexiang, deputy director of the development planning department of the Ministry of Railways. The ministry will step up building of major railways currently under construction and push construction of more projects such as the Chengdu-Guiyang railway, Chongqing-Guiyang railway and Kunming-Nanning railway to start at an early date, Yan told a meeting on railway development in western China.

China launched the "West Development Strategy" in January 2000 to help underdeveloped western regions catch up with the more prosperous eastern regions. The western regions comprise 12 provinces, autonomous regions and municipality, which have a combined population of about 370 million and account for 71.4 percent of the country's total land area.

Since the implementation of the strategy, the operating mileage of railways in the western regions jumped 50 percent from 20,000 kilometers to nearly 30,000 kilometers at the end of 2008, accounting for 36 percent of China's total operating mileage. China's total railway length will top 120,000 kilometers by 2020, Yan said.
Rearranging the numbers:

at the end of 2008, China had 30 000 km railways in the west, 36% of total, so a total was 83 000 km, 53 000 km of which in the east;

by end of 2019, China shall have a total of 120 000 km railways, 50 000 km west, 70 000 km east;

thus in 11 years, 2009 to 2019, China shall build 20 000 km railways in west and 17 000 km railways in east.

Correct?
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Old November 25th, 2009, 04:00 PM   #1907
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Quote:
To use a a/c train I'm thinking the cost may increase 10-15% which is not much but I don't see peasant workers using the high speed trains, they will use the slow trains to save as much money as they can.
I assume A/C is not required on the slower trains used by the peasant/labor classes in northern China, partly to keep ticket prices down and the fact that only train heating (steam or electric) is required in winter. In summer just open the windows, or have the ceiling fans do the work which are run off axle generators.

Of course, the CHR types must have A/C, in general HSR rolling stock have sealed windows, without climate control the interiors would become like ovens in the warmer months.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 04:11 PM   #1908
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Well the whole concept of economic development lies in making electric grids more efficient bringing the cost of running trains with AC and making them affordable to the peasents and thus raising teh standards of living of the entire soceity. What you suggested is basically some plan from the apartheid era. The target for China ought to be to bring in optimisation and bring down costs not make special cheap carriages to take the cattle crowd from one end to the other like bunch of socially outcast prisoners
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Old November 25th, 2009, 06:22 PM   #1909
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Special cheap carriages? You have gotta be kidding me. Down to the bottom line, AC generators cost capital and operating expenditures, and therefore, will drive up price.

Operating trains with interior climate control when all that's really needed are radiators for the winter is an unnecessary luxury for those on tight budgets as the cost in this case is relative rather than absolute.


BTW. The reference to CRH trains running without A/C in northern China is probably a miscommunication driven from the fact that the Alstom designed/built CRH-5 moving stock, which mainly operated in the northeastern part of China, experienced frequent issues when it was first introduced on the line; one of which is the fact that the climate control often prematurely shut down during normal operation, thus leaving the train without any type of air conditioning or ventilation.
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Last edited by UD2; November 25th, 2009 at 06:35 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #1910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteeclipse View Post
To use a a/c train I'm thinking the cost may increase 10-15% which is not much but I don't see peasant workers using the high speed trains, they will use the slow trains to save as much money as they can.

beijing-shanghai, 1463km, hard seat,
w/o a/c(but w/ heater in winter), 22 hours, cny 88
w/ a/c, 11 hours, cny 179
CRH w/ a/c, 10 hours(5 hours next year), cny 327

usd 1 = cny 6.8
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Old November 25th, 2009, 10:04 PM   #1911
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beijing-shanghai, 1463km, hard seat,
w/o a/c(but w/ heater in winter), 22 hours, cny 88
w/ a/c, 11 hours, cny 179
CRH w/ a/c, 10 hours(5 hours next year), cny 327

usd 1 = cny 6.8
Are they paying for air conditioning, or for speed?

But the peasants do not only need the trains to be cheap. They also need trains which actually stop in their villages.

Such trains cannot be fast simply because they have to stop in each village to pick up passengers.

How many new stations are being built in China proper - countryside that is?
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Old November 26th, 2009, 09:49 AM   #1912
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Are they paying for air conditioning, or for speed?

But the peasants do not only need the trains to be cheap. They also need trains which actually stop in their villages.

Such trains cannot be fast simply because they have to stop in each village to pick up passengers.

How many new stations are being built in China proper - countryside that is?
theoretically, a/c itself is not expensive (25% higher), but in the past decade, all a/c ready trains have been converted to "new-type a/c", and the ticket price of these new type trains is 50% higher than old-type. so new-type a/c is actually about (1+25%)*(1+50%)-1=87.5% higher than non-a/c.

chinese railway is very busy, in order to make train run faster and more efficient, more and more small station is abandoned. trains tend to stop less stations.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #1913
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Too many small stations were abandoned in 1990 decade, railways are the loser in short distance transportion competition with private buses and trucks.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 06:10 PM   #1914
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I can see the smaller stations being revived once the high speed rail system is built. There will be plenty of spare capacity for freight and regional trains on the old lines.
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Old November 27th, 2009, 02:25 PM   #1915
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Zhengzhou-Xi'an High-Speed Rail accident

A track inspection car seriously damaged 2000 meters of the railway near Huashan North Railway Station during test run. Because ballastless tracks are used in this section, the tracks have to be removed and the concrete foundation has to be repoured. This will delay the open of railway. The railway was expected to be opened next month.

Tracks being removed:




To keep the ballastless tracks warm, as the temperature is below freezing point; The Ministry of Railways still hopes the railway can be used during the Lunar New Year (2010 February 14) holidays:
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Old November 27th, 2009, 07:18 PM   #1916
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wow. That looks it was serious. They redone all that section.
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Old November 27th, 2009, 09:14 PM   #1917
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was it low quality concrete in this section or improper driving by the track inspection car?
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Old November 27th, 2009, 10:52 PM   #1918
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was it low quality concrete in this section or improper driving by the track inspection car?

Neither in my opinion. I guess that section has been built "wrong". Distance between rails or angle of the rails... something fundamental like that.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 12:13 AM   #1919
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was it low quality concrete in this section or improper driving by the track inspection car?
It is the problem of track inspection train.

A 5-car train was used on the Zhengzhou-Xi'an line:

Car 1: DF-11 0242 (diesel locomotive)
Car 2: SY-25K 997706 (track inspection car from zhengzhou railway bureau)
Car 3: SY-25K 998799 (safety inspection car from the ministry)
Car 4: RZ-25T 111097 (soft seat car from beijing railway bureau)
Car 5: DF-11 0246 (diesel locomotive)

The high-speed CRH inspection trains were busy doing their jobs on the Wuhan-Guangzhou line and the this inspection train used on the Zhengzhou-Xi'an line actually lacks some sensors. A "hold-axis" (I don't know how to say in English) problem made the brake kept active and derailed car 2, due to the lack of sensors, the driver did not recognize the problem until someone in the rear of the train informed him via radio.
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Old November 28th, 2009, 12:32 PM   #1920
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Construction work of four railway lines start today

Xi'an-Baoji Passenger Line

140 km long; 250 km/h – 300 km/h; open in 2012; cut the travel time from Xi'an to Baoji in 40 minutes

Second track of existing Xi'an-Anking Railway

242 km long

Second track of the Xi'an-Hefei section of the Nanjing-Xi'an Railway

952 km long

Huangling-Hancheng-Houma Railway

205 km long

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