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Old March 15th, 2011, 07:17 PM   #301
Nostra
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ppl feel like they shouldn't pay as it is not new highways it's rather an improvement on an existing highway. But they still gonna pay...
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Old June 8th, 2011, 04:19 AM   #302
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I found this map that was published in The Tourist in South Africa 1965-1966 posted on Flickr by HiltonT.

It's interesting that many of the national roads were numbered differently in those days. For example what is now the N7 was the N11, and the modern N11 is on the other side of the country. The 1965 N14 is now part of the N2 and today's N14 is somewhere completely different. The 1965 N13 is now part of the N12 it seems, and there is now no N13 or N16...

Does anyone know more about when this happened and why?

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Old June 8th, 2011, 04:23 AM   #303
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Maybe something to do with the end of Apartheid? Seems like that'd be the standard answer for the reason a lot of things are different in SA today then they were back in the '60s.
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Old June 8th, 2011, 10:44 AM   #304
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The level of changes between the 1965 scheme and the current situation is not too dissimilar to changes made in the same period in other parts of the developed World. Construction plans do get abandoned for all sorts of reasons, roads not originally thought of enter into the equation (for which abandoned road number will be used) and people have a second thought about combining several adjacent road numbers into one.

The end of Apartheid may have played a certain catalysing role, but my own suspicion is that these changes were gradual ones. However, that analysis is much more based on a general idea how road networks tend to develop as opposed to actual knowledge of what happened in SA.
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Old June 8th, 2011, 08:28 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
The level of changes between the 1965 scheme and the current situation is not too dissimilar to changes made in the same period in other parts of the developed World. Construction plans do get abandoned for all sorts of reasons, roads not originally thought of enter into the equation (for which abandoned road number will be used) and people have a second thought about combining several adjacent road numbers into one.

The end of Apartheid may have played a certain catalysing role, but my own suspicion is that these changes were gradual ones. However, that analysis is much more based on a general idea how road networks tend to develop as opposed to actual knowledge of what happened in SA.
The major changes happened before the 1980s as far as I know, so apartheid cannot be a factor (and I don't see why it should be). Some changes have some obvious logic to them, such as merging the old N9 into the N1 to form a single and better Cape Town-Beit Bridge route, merging the old N7 and N17 into the modern N10 and the old N14 into the N2 (though the latter probably explains why the N2 follows a route from Cape Town to Ermelo that no sensible driver would choose if travelling between those two points).

However, how the modern N7 started out as the N11 isn't obvious. Also, only some of the numbers have been re-used. There is now no N13 or N16 (neither is there an N15 - did it ever exist?) but there is an N18.

Perhaps some more old maps would help.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 02:45 AM   #306
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Does anyone know when the first freeway in South Africa opened? I can't find much information on this.

Two pieces of evidence I have found are photos of the N2 between Observatory and Pinelands, Cape Town captioned as newly opened in 1962.

Also there are the dates 1959 and 1961 on these bridges on the N7 at Malmesbury, a very short and by today's standards rather sub-standard freeway. Could Malmesbury really be the unlikely location for the first freeway in South Africa?
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Old September 30th, 2011, 05:15 AM   #307
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Nice!
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Old September 30th, 2011, 08:58 AM   #308
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Just a short question why is the international vehicle registration code for South Afrika ZA since in none of the South-african languages South Afrika is written with a Z. I know that it is Suid-Afrika in Afrikaans and Zuid-Afrika in dutch, is it based on the dutch name, and if true why is it?
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Old September 30th, 2011, 09:26 AM   #309
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Just a short question why is the international vehicle registration code for South Afrika ZA since in none of the South-african languages South Afrika is written with a Z. I know that it is Suid-Afrika in Afrikaans and Zuid-Afrika in dutch, is it based on the dutch name, and if true why is it?
I think it's from the afrikaans word Zuid-Afrika, but RSA would be a better choice, more international, easier to comprehend.

Also why is the swiss code CH? should be SW or something.

some codes have changed through the years. The Finland code changed from SF to FIN.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 09:46 AM   #310
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Swiss CH stands for Confederatio Helvetica. Choosing something Latin was, at the time, considered easier than seeking an abbreviation that matched all Swiss languaged. The abbreviation caught the imagination; everybody in Switzerland happily uses it. Which is unlike some vehicle registration codes. South Africa isn't even the worst as far as that's concerned. WAN for Nigeria? BH for Belize? RU for Burundi?

For South Africa, it is indeed true that none of the current SAn languages uses the Z. Afrikaans, too, uses the S as in Suid Afrika. But Dutch does, and I think that the vehicle registration code has its roots in a period where Dutch had much more of a standing in SA (and Afrikaans was still considered dialect).
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Old September 30th, 2011, 09:47 AM   #311
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WAN for Nigeria? BH for Belize? RU for Burundi?
WAN = West Africa Nigeria (there are many codes like this in Africa)
BH = British Honduras
RU = Ruanda-Urundi
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Old September 30th, 2011, 10:01 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by ed110220 View Post
Does anyone know when the first freeway in South Africa opened? I can't find much information on this.

Two pieces of evidence I have found are photos of the N2 between Observatory and Pinelands, Cape Town captioned as newly opened in 1962.

Also there are the dates 1959 and 1961 on these bridges on the N7 at Malmesbury, a very short and by today's standards rather sub-standard freeway. Could Malmesbury really be the unlikely location for the first freeway in South Africa?
There's a bridge over the M13 in Kloof (which would have been part of the N3 route in those days) dated as 1954, so that's older still.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 10:10 AM   #313
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Quote:
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Just a short question why is the international vehicle registration code for South Afrika ZA since in none of the South-african languages South Afrika is written with a Z. I know that it is Suid-Afrika in Afrikaans and Zuid-Afrika in dutch, is it based on the dutch name, and if true why is it?
You're right, it's based on the Dutch Zuid-Afrika. It's a legacy of the country's Dutch heritage - Dutch was an official language until 1961 when Afrikaans replaced it, although Afrikaans held a sort of synonym-status with Dutch as early as 1925.

.za is also our Internet top-level domain country code.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 11:19 AM   #314
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I just find it remarkable that the dutch word was chosen for this and not the english, because i tought that English was always more important in south-afrika, since a big part was colony? of the UK But probaly it was because if I'm correct the old name was the Union of South Afrika or USA in that time or was it already the RSA?
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Old September 30th, 2011, 11:46 AM   #315
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There were quite a few conflicts between the English and the Dutch/Afrikaaners before the Union of South Africa formed in 1910 (notably the Anglo-Boer War of 1899-1902), and a fair bit of animosity thereafter (which has largely died out, but still exists in some extremely conservative communities).
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Old September 30th, 2011, 12:59 PM   #316
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I just find it remarkable that the dutch word was chosen for this and not the english, because i tought that English was always more important in south-afrika, since a big part was colony?
Dutch and English were the official languages of the time. I'm not familiar enough with SAn history to establish whether the position of English was indeed stronger. But even if it was, the determination of vehicle registration codes was often also about finding practical solutions, particularly where there were a number of "contenders" for a particular code. That probably formed the background of some regional codes (the WA-group that Chris mentions, the Windward Islands also have a code like that). And that's what happened with the ZA and SA codes: two countries happy with their nice two-letter codes.

You should just be glad that no code needed to be assigned to South Australia too
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Old September 30th, 2011, 02:18 PM   #317
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There's a bridge over the M13 in Kloof (which would have been part of the N3 route in those days) dated as 1954, so that's older still.
That's a fantastic find, and earlier than I was expecting. Do you know when the freeway classification was introduced? Would the Jan Smuts Highway have opened as freeway in/around 1954, or was it brought in later?

Unfortunately there don't seem to be any dates on the N2 Settlers Way or M5 Black River Parkway (pictured together as newly opened), either you can see the gaps where the identification/date plates used to be, or they have been obliterated by widening work.

As for ZA, when were these abbreviations introduced? RSA would be better as that acronym is in widespread use (eg on postage stamps etc) but before 1961 the country was the Union of South Africa and another country had the rights to that a long time before

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I just find it remarkable that the dutch word was chosen for this and not the english, because i tought that English was always more important in south-afrika, since a big part was colony?
Not really, as because of demographics Afrikaans-speakers always dominated South Africa politically between when the country became independent in the early 20th Century and the introduction of majority rule in 1994. Put simply, amongst white South Africa, Afrikaans-speakers always significantly outnumbered English-speakers. English was always an important language too because of it's importance internationally and as a language of business in SA.

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Old September 30th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #318
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There's a bridge over the M13 in Kloof (which would have been part of the N3 route in those days) dated as 1954, so that's older still.
That's a fantastic find, and earlier than I was expecting. Do you know when the freeway classification was introduced? Would the Jan Smuts Highway have opened as freeway in/around 1954, or was it brought in later?

Unfortunately there don't seem to be any dates on the N2 Settlers Way or M5 Black River Parkway (pictured together as newly opened), either you can see the gaps where the identification/date plates used to be, or they have been obliterated by widening work.

As for ZA, when were these abbreviations introduced? RSA would be better as that acronym is in widespread use (eg on postage stamps etc) but before 1961 the country was the Union of South Africa and another country had the rights to that a long time before
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Old September 30th, 2011, 06:55 PM   #319
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Quote:
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That's a fantastic find, and earlier than I was expecting. Do you know when the freeway classification was introduced? Would the Jan Smuts Highway have opened as freeway in/around 1954, or was it brought in later?
I only knew about that one as I grew up in Kloof; only moved to Cape Town just over a year ago.

I'm actually not sure, but having driven over that stretch of road many times, I don't think that it's changed much between the 50s and the present day. I suppose that one could always look up the history of the local golf course, which apparently needed a redesign when the road was put in. The Wikipedia article on the Kloof Country Club mentions this, but the information is unsourced and may take a bit of digging to unearth.
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Old October 29th, 2011, 05:10 PM   #320
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Question: Is there somewhere on the internet a list of all placenames in South Africa that have been officially renamed since 1994 ?

Vraag: Is daar iewers op die internet 'n lys van al die plekname in Suid-Afrika wat sedert 1994 amptelik hernoem is?
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